HBO's Chernobyle mini-series
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jack13
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Agreed.
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Good show. Good leads. Good supporting cast. Good script. It spent too much time showing pets being hunted down but otherwise 5 out of 5 stars.
Chernobyl is one of the best series I've ever watched, too. They didn't dilute it by adding lots of unnecessary drama, dragging it out to 10, 12 or more episodes or even multiple seasons.
The conciseness helps in making the impact it does, implanting haunting images and emotions we'll never forget. Sure there were some inaccuracies, a few dramatizations, but overall I found the production top notch.
The last song before the end titles (Vichnaya Pamyat) is just wonderful! Something majestic about choirs that's hard to describe:
Also much about Russian, Ukrainian, etc. culture and patriotism we don't understand.
P.S. K-19: The Widowmaker was pretty 'bad' too, leaving haunting memories. They also used similar choral music (in Russian).
The conciseness helps in making the impact it does, implanting haunting images and emotions we'll never forget. Sure there were some inaccuracies, a few dramatizations, but overall I found the production top notch.
The last song before the end titles (Vichnaya Pamyat) is just wonderful! Something majestic about choirs that's hard to describe:
Also much about Russian, Ukrainian, etc. culture and patriotism we don't understand.
P.S. K-19: The Widowmaker was pretty 'bad' too, leaving haunting memories. They also used similar choral music (in Russian).
AkTom
Well-Known Member
Millions of years ago... I used to live in the People’s Republic of Washington. Some people there would
have kids from Chernobyl come over for the summer. Their health improved greatly in the few weeks they spent there. I would guess...that even now it’s not the healthiest place in Russia.
have kids from Chernobyl come over for the summer. Their health improved greatly in the few weeks they spent there. I would guess...that even now it’s not the healthiest place in Russia.
TwistedGray
El Jefe Brewing Company
It was amazing! Agreed. It really makes you wonder, learn, remember. The empathy was/is immeasurable.
Favorite person -Shcherbina by a landslide!
Favorite person -Shcherbina by a landslide!
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NeverDie
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Checking the physics forum, it looks like HBO exaggerated the potential 2-4 megaton explosion by anywhere from 2 to 5 orders of magnitude. I guess that's one way to raise the dramatic stakes, but it's also disingenuous. I mean, the whole thesis is about the cost of lies after all.
Aside from that, I thought the series was great (well, AFAIK
)
Aside from that, I thought the series was great (well, AFAIK
)
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I haven't seen the show yet but I'm very wary. I work in the Nuclear industry and used to teach reactor operations (including reactor physics/theory) and the amount of misinformation that's continously spread about Chernobyl makes me cautious that any popular TV show will get the facts right.
To even describe the explosion in "megatons" (as is used to describe a bomb) is disingenuous since it was a steam explosion and not a nuclear explosion.
Other than the terrible cost to the firefighters there has been little real understanding of the regional health effects, with estimates ranging from hundreds to millions affected in a number of disputed statistical studies.
The area is currently a wildlife preserve full of perfectly healthy plants and animals.
Anecdotal stories abound such as "I saw a pig with an extra leg" or "my nephew got cancer because...." That's the real problem with stochastic (long term) health issues. The only way to prove they exist is when a statistically significant number of people die in 50 years and that data is being meticulously recorded. It's a hard thing to do and nobody has done a good job with the data.
Happy to answer any questions about radiation, radiation monitoring, reactor physics, etc though
To even describe the explosion in "megatons" (as is used to describe a bomb) is disingenuous since it was a steam explosion and not a nuclear explosion.
Other than the terrible cost to the firefighters there has been little real understanding of the regional health effects, with estimates ranging from hundreds to millions affected in a number of disputed statistical studies.
The area is currently a wildlife preserve full of perfectly healthy plants and animals.
Anecdotal stories abound such as "I saw a pig with an extra leg" or "my nephew got cancer because...." That's the real problem with stochastic (long term) health issues. The only way to prove they exist is when a statistically significant number of people die in 50 years and that data is being meticulously recorded. It's a hard thing to do and nobody has done a good job with the data.
Happy to answer any questions about radiation, radiation monitoring, reactor physics, etc though
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Just finished it last night. Very well done as are most of HBO's series. I learned a lot as well as being skeptical of some of it but it was a very good story either way.
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NeverDie
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If the corium had hit the water in either full storage tanks or the ground water beneath, what would have been the magnitude of the explosion in TNT equivalent?
I have no idea, so I googled it. A guy ran the calculations on a physics stack exchange and came up with approximately 150 tons of TNT in force equivalent far less than a megaton level explosion.
I was more referring to the ideological usage of megatons to describe the explosion. When most people hear megatons they automatically associate it with an atomic bomb explosion. There's nothing factually incorrect with using a TNT equivalence to express the force of the explosion, but that was an intentional choice designed to make that association. Reactors =/ nuclear bombs ever
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NeverDie
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In this particular case the magnitude of explosion mattered not just because of the blast itself and the worsened spread of fallout but because, if big enough, it might have also destroyed the other 3 reactors nearby, allegedly making everything far worse.
It probably could have but it didn't. The graphite fire and fallout were bad enough so I don't understand why we should evaluate a consequence that didn't happen.. unless I'm missing something?
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NeverDie
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Allegedly, it didn't happen because they worked hard to prevent it from happening, requiring 3 guys on a possible a suicide mission. If I type more it would be spoilers. I guess you have to see it to understand the context.
Those reactors remained in operation until 2015... allegedly nothing.. didn't happen. Now heroics may well have been involved but that doesn't change the fact that its a "what if" scenario
TwistedGray
El Jefe Brewing Company
The "what if" scenario makes for more intense television, imo. You should watch it so that all of us know what is true, what is false, and/or what is embellished
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NeverDie
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I don't see how one can casually dismiss "what-if" scenarios. After the explosion nearly everything involved "what-if" scenarios to decide what to do and whether it was worth the cost of life and injury to do it. It's not as though reactor 4 simply exploded and rapidly burned itself out with no one doing anything after the initial explosion.
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Wife trying to get me to watch. But I'm always leary on authenticity of such things or over dramatization. Anyway, no one spoted Godzilla so obviously the show was fake. [emoji6]
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NeverDie
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In the documentary that I linked to above, one of the soviet officials that was interviewed referred to the thermal explosion threat as being 5 megatons. So, I'm not sure that the writer for the HBO show was just making it up to be dramatic. Even if the number if wrong, it's a number a the Soviets were quoting, which is all that mattered for the writer's purposes.
It would, of course, be interesting to know if the number if right or wrong. Not sure if it has a bearing on this, but the Soviet reactors were designed to provide both electricity and enriched fuel for nuclear weapons, unlike in the west where different reactors are used for electricity versus weapons.
It would, of course, be interesting to know if the number if right or wrong. Not sure if it has a bearing on this, but the Soviet reactors were designed to provide both electricity and enriched fuel for nuclear weapons, unlike in the west where different reactors are used for electricity versus weapons.
Andrew Hodgson
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I mean Russia is going to pay to produce their own version, blaming the disaster on a CIA mole at the site.
I think it shows that they were probably spot-on overall, so much so that Putin needs a Propaganda version of a show about an event that happened 33 years ago. I mean details aside, they really nail what we all suspect was the bureaucratic incompetence that crumbled the Soviet system.
Oh and the head miner is the best. Everything he asks for he doesn't get and he knows all his dudes are going to die so he's like we'll just mine naked you idiots.
I think it shows that they were probably spot-on overall, so much so that Putin needs a Propaganda version of a show about an event that happened 33 years ago. I mean details aside, they really nail what we all suspect was the bureaucratic incompetence that crumbled the Soviet system.
Oh and the head miner is the best. Everything he asks for he doesn't get and he knows all his dudes are going to die so he's like we'll just mine naked you idiots.
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NeverDie
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He was a tragic hero. He apparently blindly trusted that the state would take care of him and his crew, whereas the truth was just the opposite. Seems as though he could have negotiated for good treatment of his crew before agreeing to do the work, but maybe that would just have gotten him a bullet? It would have been interesting to see him at least try for that. It wouldn't have been unreasonable.
Andrew Hodgson
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Yeah it's the good old conundrum of fealty by force. Try to help out nameless comrades by condemning your workers to certain, slow, maybe-next-year doom, or just be shot right here.
Good ole' USSR.
Good ole' USSR.
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NeverDie
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OK, so for those who need a TL;DR, here's a two minute video on where the 3-5 megaton number comes from:
Apparently it would not have been just a steam explosion (which is what the physics forum tried to calculate) but instead somehow a nuclear chain reaction. Is that even possible? I don't understand the mechanism, but the alleged nuclear physicist in the video calls it that. He alleges that somehow >1400kg of uranium and graphite, mixed with water, reaches critical mass and would result in the 3-5 megaton explosion.
So, for the nuclear expert here, is that a justifiable claim? Is it possible?
Apparently it would not have been just a steam explosion (which is what the physics forum tried to calculate) but instead somehow a nuclear chain reaction. Is that even possible? I don't understand the mechanism, but the alleged nuclear physicist in the video calls it that. He alleges that somehow >1400kg of uranium and graphite, mixed with water, reaches critical mass and would result in the 3-5 megaton explosion.
So, for the nuclear expert here, is that a justifiable claim? Is it possible?
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In my opinion no, critical mass just means that there was enough uranium and graphite in one place to sustain a chain reaction, which is what the reactor was designed to do. So that part is perfectly true. There WAS a power excursion, which means that there was a very brief flash of fission energy far beyond what the reactor was designed to handle, which instantly vaporized most of the water in the core. That energy was released into the water which converted the water into steam which caused the explosion. The second the explosion occurred the critical mass was lost because the uranium, and more importantly the graphite, was blown apart.
The graphite acts as a moderator which slows down neutrons and makes them easier for uranium to capture them and fission. As soon as that assembly was destroyed the nuclear chain reaction ceased. There was still a tremendous amount of heat being released from the decay of radioactive fission products, which caused the fuel to continue to melt and the graphite to burn.
In order for a weapon style detonation to occur, your fuel source (uranium, plutonium, etc) needs to be consolidated into a very small area so that the fission reaction consumes as much of it as possible. In this scenario the power excursion itself extinguished its own reaction. Think of it like a fire explosion so intense that it consumes all of the oxygen in a room instantly and goes out.
Now if you hypothetically took the mass of uranium distributed over the entire reactor core and calculated the potential energy release from fissioning 100% of the U-235, I could believe that it would be that much.
Sky did a followup documentary, found it a day or two ago. Spoke to family members and some of the engineers and liquidators including one of the three that went into the basement to open the water valves.
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