Rhoobarb
Well-Known Member
Just read this on a local forum regarding a company called Monster Mills.
Take a look.
http://free90free.com/peshchat/viewtopic.php?t=820
Take a look.
http://free90free.com/peshchat/viewtopic.php?t=820
Funkenjäger said:Anyone have any additional insight on this?
I was about to preorder a monster mill, based largely on the reputation of crankandstein (awesome lifetime guarantee, etc), but if this turns out to be true I'm not so sure anymore.
I did email the monster mills guy to ask about the mills at one point a few days back, and the guy that responded was Fred Francis. But, googling it, I do see that both Don Obenauer and Fred Francis are commonly associated with Crankandstein, so I have no idea who to believe.
Rhoobarb said:Man, what a mess. They both sound like real pices of work to me. And I don't know who to believe. It all sounds suspect.
But who really OWNS the crankandstein name? If what Fred says is true, then he's the one that created and ran the company itself - and Don was only the manufacturer. I'm not a lawyer and don't know all the facts but from what I've read it doesn't seem obvious that Don should somehow automatically own the name when he wasn't running the business - and I suppose the whole thing is really up in the air because they didn't have a bunch of formal, legal contracts defining the company, just informal agreements. If anything, without concrete agreements, is it even clear that one of them should entirely own the business name? If they each have some partial right to it, then it seems they'd both be at fault to a degree, as they're both still using the name in some way.Cheesefood said:First off, what he's doing is called "cybersquatting" and it's illegal. If he was drawing a paycheck from C&S, then he was an employee or a contractor and therefore needs to respect their intellectual property (i.e. their brand name). If he gets sued, I guarantee he'll have to forfeit profits.
That also sounds like a reasonable plan... just wait until the dust settles and see how both companies turn out.iamjonsharp said:Yikes. Sounds like staying away from both Crankandstein and Monster Mill is the best idea...
iamjonsharp said:Yikes. Sounds like staying away from both Crankandstein and Monster Mill is the best idea...
Bobby_M said:We have no idea if there was any official partnership in place. If Fred didn't trademarked the C&S brand or patent the design, he's got no leg to stand on. If it was an official partnership, any one of the partners leaving would force dissolution of the legal entity unless otherwise accounted for in the written partnership agreement (probably wasn't). It's a lot of speculation but there will be plenty of people ready to buy the Monster Mill and report on the experience. I think when it comes to mills, the key is finding a manufacturer to work cheap. These things are labor intensive... ask Yuri.
iamjonsharp said:Yikes. Sounds like staying away from both Crankandstein and Monster Mill is the best idea...
TWilson said:I have read numerous articles in the past where people have registered domain names for up and coming companies/products/entities without having any attachment to the company/product/entity. The issue to be careful of is trademark/copyright infringement. There are numerous examples of people highjacking a name and using different extensions. One shining example is whitehouse.gov. That site is fine for kids, but whithouse.com is definitely for adults only. My wife works for the federal government and had one of her subordinates do a little research for her. The subordinate was a little red in the face when she accidently used the .com extension instead of the .gov extension.
cheesefood said:he was an employee or a contractor and therefore needs to respect their intellectual property (i.e. their brand name).
TWilson said:There are numerous examples of people highjacking a name and using different extensions. One shining example is whitehouse.gov.
cheesefood said:While unethical, it's legal to do so long as you're not using the name to sell a competing product.
cheesefood said:Doesn't matter who owns the website. If a new domain came out...say .beer, Miller could register budweiser.beer, but that doesn't mean they won't get in serious trouble.
Here's what it'll come down to: who owns the copyright for CrankAndStein? If they were smart enough to register the name, it's a non issue
iamjonsharp said:Yikes. Sounds like staying away from both Crankandstein and Monster Mill is the best idea...
Henry Hill said:"Which grain mill should I buy?" just became a hugely controversial question-having already been a very tough, albeit subjective, one.
Thank God pumps are a clear course...
~HH crosses fingers~
Cheesefood said:Just get one. A mill is a mill. It's the age old question: to you want longer or thicker?
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