Globetrotter - American hopped Bohemian Pilsner Recipe feedback

[Beerngineer]

Hello,
I was going to brew a bohemian pilsner following this recipe. I ran into a problem; I really do not like pilsners. I dont like the hop profile to be more precise. The noble hops just do not do it for me. I already bought the grain, but decided to americanize the recipe. I want to give this beer a clean piney bitterness. I want to avoid citrus and tropical fruit flavor/aroma. I am not after a pale ale in a lager form. Will I achieve that with this recipe?

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Globetrotter (Chinook hopped Bohemian Pils)
Author: Jeremy

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: Czech Premium Pale Lager
Boil Time: 30 min
Batch Size: 19 liters (fermenter volume)
Boil Size: 26 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.041
Efficiency: 65% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.055
Final Gravity: 1.014
ABV (alternate): 5.57%
IBU (tinseth): 41.55
SRM (morey): 3.99

FERMENTABLES:
4.8 kg - German - Bohemian Pilsner (93.4%)
340 g - German - Carapils (6.6%)

HOPS:
12 g - Chinook, 60 min, IBU: 21.99
10 g - Chinook, 30 min, IBU: 14.08
15 g - Chinook, 5 min, IBU: 5.48
15 g - Chinook, 0 min
10 g - Chinook, Dry Hop for 10 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temp: 68 C, Time: 60 min, Amount: 35 L

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
10 g - Gypsum, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash

YEAST:
Wyeast - Octoberfest Lager Blend 2633

 

[Mer-man]

I think the conventional "wisdom" would suggest that your extensive use of Chinook will overpower the mild, sweet graininess of the pilsner malt flavour. Both with the "harshness" of the bitterness and the classic Chinook flavours.

That said, do it anyway. Then tell us how it tastes!

 

[Beerngineer]

The original hop bill looks like this:
Czech Saaz hops 39 g (60 min)
Czech Saaz hops 47 g (30 min)
Czech Saaz hops 24 g (10 min)
Czech Saaz hops 24 g (0 min)
I am using far less in overall quantities of hops, so its hard for me to imagine the use of Chinook as "extensive". But Saaz is a more gentle hop than Chinook, which is a bit more "punchy". I could do my 60 minute with Magnum to reduce the "harshness" a bit, but it probably wouldn't make a huge difference overall.

 

[Iseneye]

No comment on recipe. I guess it would be like an american blonde? My main comment is on the gypsum. Ive got soft water and would not put 10g of Gypsum in a pilsner recipe. I dont have brun water on me but I think I add around 4g for 150ppm of sulfate. You want soft water for Pilsner. If you want to add anything add cacl instead.

 

[Double_D]

I don't see where you list your starting water. If I'm not confused by bourbon, bohemian is Czech pils. They have very soft water. As has already been stated. If your water is soft, I wouldn't add anything.

That said, I don't think you'll need the dry hop. Even the nooner from Sierra Nevada doesn't seem dry hoped as far as I can tell and it's pretty dang hoppy. Your inspirational recipe doesn't include a dry hop either. You don't want to get into the IPL/hybrid territory. I mean, unless that's what you're going for.

 

[Double_D]

I think the conventional "wisdom" would suggest that your extensive use of Chinook will overpower the mild, sweet graininess of the pilsner malt flavour. Both with the "harshness" of the bitterness and the classic Chinook flavours.

That said, do it anyway. Then tell us how it tastes!

I agree with do it anyway.

I disagree that "wisdom" ( or dogma) regarding Chinook hops means it will overpower anything. While it's not specifically known for an aromatic hops, I like this idea. Balance is what's important, especially with pils. Chinook can be used responsibly, I think the op is in the range of responsibility ( minus dry hopping). After all, this is going to lager for about 5 weeks. Plenty of time to mellow out. Especially after fermentation. Meaning it'll be almost 8 weeks post brew day before this beer is officially ready.

 

[Beerngineer]

Thanks everyone. This is my first Pilsener, and I'm encouraged to see signs that I'm on the right track. I think I'll make the following changes.

I think I'll change my bittering hop (60 min) to the equivalent IBUs of Magnum to smooth out the hop bitterness a bit. It shouldn't otherwise affect the flavor much.

I'll knock out the dry hop. That was always an iffy one for this beer anyways.

I have pretty hard water with high chloride, which is why I default to adding gypsum to any hop driven beer. The way I understand it is that if you want to enhance the hop character, you need to adjust the sulfate to chloride ratio. I usually add a teaspoon of gypsum to balanced beers, and two for hoppy ones. I'm happy to take advice on this.

 

[Double_D]

My understanding is RO water is better for Czech, sulfate/chloride water is better for German pils. Just something for thought.

 

[Mer-man]

Please don't get hung up on my diction, that's my wife's job. (High-oh!) Extensive, as in Chinook was used comprehensively in the hop bill rather than commentary on the total amount.

Czech water is very soft, which is why they decocted to release Calcium into the wort. You don't want high Sulfate or Chloride (e.g. in the IPA territory), but you will need to get adequate Calcium into your sweet liquor for all the relevant downstream processes (mash pH, break formation, yeast health).

Double_D, ". . . RO water is better for Czech, sulfate/chloride water is better for German pils" is way too vague to be useful.

 

[Double_D]

My apologies. I should have said very soft water or RO plus a little calcium is better for czech pils. The information I can find on appropriate water for german pils higher in both sulfate and calcium.

 

[Beerngineer]

Thanks again guys. Ive found someone who will lend me a RO unit, and will use that for my water. I used the Brewers Friend water calculator to figure out the salts required to match Pilsner water. Im assuming RO water has zeros for all the minerals. Is there any problem with using chalk in the mash as my calcium source? Ive heard of problems dissolving the chalk.

 

[Double_D]

From what I've read, chalk needs an acid to dissolve completely so utilization isn't 100%.