Gas line recommendation

[storytyme]

Need quick recommendation. My gas lines are cheaper tubing and very stiff. I cuss each time trying to maneuver them a prune my 8 tap keezer. I want to switch them out to tubing that is very flexible and easy to work with. I’ve looked online and it’s hard to tell on flexibility so I thought I’d ask the professionals...you guys! Thank you in advance. Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

just upgraded my gas line myself...this is a lot better than the vinyl i was using...


https://www.ebay.com/itm/20-Feet-5-...5:sc:USPSPriorityFlatRateEnvelope!85650!US!-1

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I went with the 5mm EVABarrier lines for gas (and 4mm for Bier).

 

[IslandLizard]

There's been a switch lately to replace vinyl line (yes, also gas line) with EVA Barrier line. I'm thinking about it myself. I currently use 1/4" Bevlex 200 for gas lines.

 

[Robert65]

I have 4mm EVA barrier tubing for both liquid and gas. Would recommend. As flexible as vinyl, best gas barrier available, easy push connect fittings. And way cheaper by the foot than the Bevlex vinyl I used to buy at LHBS.

 

[bracconiere]

There's been a switch lately to replace vinyl line

well then, get out of my head! but this silcone is a lot easier to swap kegs with...(now i just need some cheap check valves for in between)

 

[Robert65]

Silicone is, by orders of magnitude, more oxygen permeable than any other tubing.

 

[bracconiere]

by orders of magnitude,

lol, just to keep this interesting, i've been trying to work on my logarithmic skills....compared to vinyl, what power would it be, base 10, base 3? anyway the link i posted was for gas tubing, and it looks like it's only about 80% silicone, with a inner layer...and i can say it is mildly flexible in the fridge....

edit: and if you're a lodo guy, what about the o-rings on your kegs? my All-American pressure cooker is just aluminum on aluminum for the seal baby! lol

 

[IslandLizard]

Silicone is, by orders of magnitude, more oxygen permeable than any other tubing.

I doubt that red tubing is silicone. Looks like ordinary PVC gas line (it even reads " VC" in the picture).
I also doubt it has any O2 barrier.

 

[philm63]

I have 4mm EVA barrier tubing for both liquid and gas. Would recommend. As flexible as vinyl, best gas barrier available, easy push connect fittings. And way cheaper by the foot than the Bevlex vinyl I used to buy at LHBS.

Is this line/connector combination suitable for force-carbing at, say, 25 psi at 40 F? I just posted about loosing CO2 way too quickly and the lines are normal suspects in such a case. If I decide to change the line type, I'd prefer to go the route I went with my beverage tubing - semi-rigid, John Guest connectors - love it - easy to use/maintain. But is it suitable for gas connects? And at elevated psi?

 

[storytyme]

Thank you everyone for the info. Can you guys post some links on where to buy. Preferably Amazon. I always go to my LHBS but they just gave the cheaper very stiff vinyl.

 

[bleme]

Williams Brewing carries it: https://www.williamsbrewing.com/532-EVABarrier-Beer-Tubing-39-foot-roll-P4680.aspx

Morebeer: https://www.morebeer.com/products/evabarrier-double-wall-draft-tubing-4-mm-id-8-od.html

BrewHardware: https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/evabarriertubing4mm55.htm

No dice on Amazon yet.

 

[Robert65]

Is this line/connector combination suitable for force-carbing at, say, 25 psi at 40 F? I just posted about loosing CO2 way too quickly and the lines are normal suspects in such a case. If I decide to change the line type, I'd prefer to go the route I went with my beverage tubing - semi-rigid, John Guest connectors - love it - easy to use/maintain. But is it suitable for gas connects? And at elevated psi?

Yes, it's as good as you can get for all those applications. The manufacturer/ seller of the EVA stuff (originates from Kegland in Australia) has push connect fittings under the Duotight brand, but these are essentially the same as John Guest or another brand, so if you like that type of connector, you're good.

 

[IslandLizard]

I have 4mm EVA barrier tubing for both liquid and gas. Would recommend. As flexible as vinyl, best gas barrier available, easy push connect fittings. And way cheaper by the foot than the Bevlex vinyl I used to buy at LHBS.

While we're here, do you know what material the EVA Barrier line is made of? Is there a distinguishable barrier layer as in Ultra 235?

Is it perhaps Tygon? IIRC, Tygon is used in ink delivery applications in large format inkjet printers, and should be O2 impermeable. It's very flexible.

 

[Robert65]

lol, just to keep this interesting, i've been trying to work on my logarithmic skills....compared to vinyl, what power would it be, base 10, base 3? anyway the link i posted was for gas tubing, and it looks like it's only about 80% silicone, with a inner layer...and i can say it is mildly flexible in the fridge....

edit: and if you're a lodo guy, what about the o-rings on your kegs? my All-American pressure cooker is just aluminum on aluminum for the seal baby! lol

edit: and if you're a lodo guy, what about the o-rings on your kegs?

Well, at least I don't have silicone o-rings, which I have seen being sold for kegs. I have Buna-N, so that's about the best we can do (in an imperfect world that still requires o-rings! Lol)

 

[IslandLizard]

... has push connect fittings under the Duotight brand, but these are essentially the same as John Guest or another brand,

It looks the Duotight fittings use 2 o-rings while JG use only one per push-fit connection.

 

[Robert65]

While we're here, do you know what material the EVA Barrier line is made of? Is there a distinguishable barrier layer as in Ultra 235?

Is it perhaps Tygon? IIRC, Tygon is used in ink delivery applications in large format inkjet printers, and should be O2 impermeable. It's very flexible.

The tubing is EVA (ethylene vinyl acetate) and the lining is EVOH (ethylene vinyl alcohol) essentially the same base material treated differently, some slight variation in proportions of what not in manufacture etc. Apparently the EVOH is widely used as an oxygen/gas barrier in all sorts of packaging, and is the most effective material currently available. I Googled EVA and EVOH once and forgot most of what I read, you can too, lol!

 

[IslandLizard]

The tubing is EVA (ethylene vinyl acetate) and the lining is EVOH (ethylene vinyl alcohol) essentially the same base material treated differently, some slight variation in proportions of what not in manufacture etc. Apparently the EVOH is widely used as an oxygen/gas barrier in all sorts of packaging, and is the most effective material currently available. I Googled EVA and EVOH once and forgot most of what I read, you can too, lol!

Thank you, that points me in the right direction! Why did I think "EVA" was her name proper?

I was looking at using Tygon a while ago but EVA looks like she's made for the job.
Hmm, now what to do with the nearly 100' of Ultra 235 I use currently (5 taps at 18-19' each)? Answered my own question: I'm keeping them, they're just as fine, just longer. I'll only replace the gas lines with EVA.

 

[bracconiere]

I'll only replace the gas lines with EVA.

com'on now, you don't want your first pour to be oxidized do you?


(and what about getting a acetyl off flavor? lol it's going to pick up acetic acid from the acetate isn't it?)

 

[bucketnative]

I was looking at using Tygon a while ago but EVA looks like she's made for the job.

By the way, Tygon® is a brand name, and does not connote a given material. You have to go by the formulation number in the product code.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, after doing research on the EVAbarrier line I was so enamored by the specs I'm going all in on it.

I was already refurbing my 6-tap keezer (mostly due to emerging rust on the bottom) and will be changing the whole thing over to the EVAbarrier line, using 4mm ID for the beer lines and 5mm ID for gas. Lots of new parts involved on the beer side to get from kegs through flow meters to shanks. The flow meters were the fly in the ointment as they sport 3/8" BSP threads on both ends and neither Duotight nor JohnGuest make a single piece solution to a 5/16" tube OD, but the latter does make a stem insert that will work with my existing fittings.

All the bits should arrive by Friday. I've already refinished the keezer interior so I should be able to put it all back together this weekend - I have a full set of fresh kegs waiting. And when that's all done I'll be switching my three fridge gas systems over as well...

Cheers!

 

[storytyme]

I have barbed fittings. Is the 5mm the way to go?

 

[storytyme]

Also is this tubing only available at homebrew shops/internet? Not at Lowe’s or Home Depot?

 

[day_trippr]

There's literally zero chance of finding any tubing suitable for beer line in a big box store, never mind something new to the USA market - and dispensing-specific - as this EVAbarrier tubing...

Cheers!

ps: There was a brief flurry of activity around the "EJ Beverage" tubing which turned out to be a complete waste of time - simply because their proprietary material is only 70% less O2-permeable than solid PVC, instead of orders of magnitude...

 

[S-Met]

Haven't tried yet. Duotight check valve. Was going to add to my next order, but order is only in "planning" phase.

https://www.morebeer.com/ct/?idx=36...ight-pushin-fitting-8-mm-516-check-valve.html

 

[storytyme]

I went with the 5mm EVABarrier lines for gas (and 4mm for Bier).

So I got the line today and I am unsure if it is the right size. I got the 5mm and am only doing my gas lines.

My manifold is this: https://www.morebeer.com/products/brass-gas-manifold.html

Did I get the wrong size?

 

[storytyme]

Just talked to the customer service at morebeer.com and that tubing 5mm is for liquid side. I guess it can be used for gas too? It was too small for the manifold for sure. I think I am going to stick to the stiff vinyl unless I'm incorrect on all this?

 

[bracconiere]

if O2 is such a worry, why not this sorta thing...

https://www.amazon.com/Glass-Pyrex-...argid=aud-798931705416:pla-680171609930&psc=1

it could work? maybe get flexible line that fits inside something like it....magnitudes baby, not percentiles....magnitudes, lol

 

[storytyme]

I have 4mm EVA barrier tubing for both liquid and gas. Would recommend. As flexible as vinyl, best gas barrier available, easy push connect fittings. And way cheaper by the foot than the Bevlex vinyl I used to buy at LHBS.

So you don't put the 4mm straight onto the barb? I assume not since that seems impossible to me. I just don't want to switch out all my barbed disconnects to threaded.

 

[bleme]

So you don't put the 4mm straight onto the barb? I assume not since that seems impossible to me. I just don't want to switch out all my barbed disconnects to threaded.

I haven't heard anyone use that line and not use the push-type connectors.

 

[storytyme]

I haven't heard anyone use that line and not use the push-type connectors.

That's what I realized once the tubing showed up today. Since I have barbed disconnects then I can't use these push-type connectors anyway. Correct?

 

[bleme]

That's what I realized once the tubing showed up today. Since I have barbed disconnects then I can't use these push-type connectors anyway. Correct?

Just found this, so evidently is HAS been done...

Tim Huggett1 year ago
I wish I knew about these fittings when I bought my Kegerator the other day, it was a real pain to fit those barb fittings into the 4mm ID tubing (the pointy-nose pliers are definitely the way to go). These push in fittings look like they would make the process much easier. Nice work

 

[day_trippr]

I believe Bobby_M said one can stretch the 5mm ID tubing over a 1/4" barb with some heat and a tool like this

(Damn that's a lot of white space!)

Anyway, that's my intention on the gas side of my keezer, which is pretty much all 1/4" barbs (manifolds and QDs).
I'll be using the 4mm ID for the beer side which is all 1/4" MFL. With 6 lines with flow meters there's a crapton of JG fittings involved....

Cheers!

 

[storytyme]

Just found this, so evidently is HAS been done...

After watching the video they never showed how to use it on a disconnect that is a barbed flare like this: https://www.morebeer.com/products/pin-lock-disconnect-gas-barb.html

I do like those duotight fittings though. Wish I could use them somehow

 

[bleme]

After watching the video they never showed how to use it on a disconnect that is a barbed flare like this: https://www.morebeer.com/products/pin-lock-disconnect-gas-barb.html

I do like those duotight fittings though. Wish I could use them somehow

The quote is from a commentor to that video who wishes he had bought the duotight fittings instead of all the trouble he had getting the 4mm line onto his barbs, which shows that is CAN be done.

 

[storytyme]

The quote is from a commentor to that video who wishes he had bought the duotight fittings instead of all the trouble he had getting the 4mm line onto his barbs, which shows that is CAN be done.

Gotcha. He must have more patience than I do. I may as well try it since if I return this I have to pay shipping back and may as well keep it around. Thanks for the info and looking into this for me. Very much appreciated.

 

[day_trippr]

Just talked to the customer service at morebeer.com and that tubing 5mm is for liquid side. I guess it can be used for gas too? It was too small for the manifold for sure. I think I am going to stick to the stiff vinyl unless I'm incorrect on all this?

EVA 4mm or 5mm ID line can be used for gas or beer, user's choice. I've opted for 5mm for gas and 4mm for beer as the former can be stretched over 1/4" barbs (which my 6 yo keezer is full of on the gas side) while the latter allow quite short lengths for the beer side. I'll be using a mix of JG and Duotight fittings on the beer side to get from 1/4" MFL QDs through 3/8" BSP flow meters to 5/8" BSP shanks.

fwiw, I received both lines today and got all excited because the bend radius is like 2" or so. That's actually tighter than the Bevlex 200 PVC beer lines and the braided Tygon PVC gas lines I've been using forever, so re-plumbing my tower box looks like it's gonna be cake

Cheers!

 

[S-Met]

Gotcha. He must have more patience than I do. I may as well try it since if I return this I have to pay shipping back and may as well keep it around. Thanks for the info and looking into this for me. Very much appreciated.

Or upgrading to mfl QDs. It would be silly to upgrade your lines and not upgrade your QDs.
Ball Lock Disconnect - MFL Liquid https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0779MB6X7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_PSLQDbBENH8GY

 

[storytyme]

Or upgrading to mfl QDs. It would be silly to upgrade your lines and not upgrade your QDs.
Ball Lock Disconnect - MFL Liquid https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0779MB6X7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_PSLQDbBENH8GY

I totally agree! #$^&@ homebrewing Always something to upgrade to. I'm keeping my current tubing and just cleaning it up a bit.

 

[IslandLizard]

Or upgrading to mfl QDs. It would be silly to upgrade your lines and not upgrade your QDs.
Ball Lock Disconnect - MFL Liquid https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0779MB6X7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_PSLQDbBENH8GY

I totally agree! #$^&@ homebrewing Always something to upgrade to. I'm keeping my current tubing and just cleaning it up a bit.

Just don't buy them from Amazon. They're some generic origin and at high cost.

For example, you can get real CMB QDs at RiteBrew for quite a bit less:
Gas MFL: http://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/843382.htm
Liquid MFL: http://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/843386.htm