Fusel Alcohol?

[andy6026]

***Thread update on page 2***

I brewed Pliny the elder (a strong IPA), using White Labs 001 California Ale Yeast. It's ideal range is 68-73 F. However, on the day I pitched it rose up to 75 for about 12 hours before I swamp cooled it back down to 70 (these are actual beer temps, not ambient temps). I also poured all of the trub into the fermenter so it sat on a pile of it for 2 and 1/2 weeks.

They've now been bottled for a week. I tasted one. At first it tastes fine, but the finish on it tastes like what I imagine rubbing alcohol would taste like - it creeps up strongly at the end of the taste.

Is that likely fusel alcohol? OR could it be something else? Will it dissipate with time? I realized that i tasted too early, but the last time I brewed this and tasted early it was fantastic. This is so far undrinkable.

 

[unionrdr]

Fusel alcohols have a hot alcohol sort of flavor quality to them. The high initial ferment temps are usually to blame. Leaving the beer in primary for 3-7 days after FG is reached can go a long way to cleaning them up. At this point, try letting them sit at room temp in boxes or other dark place & they'll clean up a little.

 

[bobeer]

From my experience the alcohol bite mellows over time. With IPA's, esp imperials, you sometimes do get that bite as the beer warms but it shouldn't be undrinkable... Let them sit for longer than a week so they can condition back out and mellow the alcohol a bit. I'm sure they'll be fine with a little age or at least drinkable.

 

[MindenMan]

What were your O.G., and F.G. ? What temperature did you mash at? That information is really needed for us to best help you.

 

[andy6026]

I mashed at 152 for an hour. Batch-sparged at 168.

My OG was 1.070 and my FG was 1.010.

I used 2 vials of yeast (White Labs 001 - California Ale). One was two months old, the other was only a few weeks old. I made a 2 liter starter using a stir-plate and poured the whole thing into the fermenter (I didn't decant). This brought it up to a total of 6 gallons.

It mostly fermented at 70 F for 2 and 1/2 weeks except for the first 12 hours where it hit 75 (actual beer temp, not ambient). I'd be surprised that the extra 2 degrees beyond the yeasts preferred temp (68-73) would throw that much fusel into the brew (although I have no experience of fusels to compare).

John Palmer says that other factors leading to fusels is over-pitching (which I may have done), and leaving beer on the trub too long (which as I mentoined, ALL the trub got poured into the fermenter from the boil).

Could I have triple-whammied myself on this? I hate to screw this one up as it's such a fine beer and it's costlier than most to brew.

Of course I'm going to give it more time. It tastes thin on the front, which I find common with beer not conditioned long enough, but it's the strong alcohol aftertaste that punches me in the face that I'm really hoping mellows out... and mellows out sooner than the hoppy goodness dissipates.

 

[beergolf]

I doubt that you over-pitched. Leaving it on the trub for 2 1/2 weeks is definitely not the problem. This leads back to the temp as the probably cause.

 

[bobeer]

I've left beer on trub for months since I don't secondary, to oak or just being lazy, and I've never have had any issues. Mashing an IPA at 152 should have produced some body so it's interesting to me how you're getting, what's being described as, an undrinkable booze bite. I don't think you over pitched either and the temp isn't crazy high. It is a tad warm but that does seem to be the only culprit here. Did it take off in the first 12 hours? I know you said you made a starter but sometimes it still needs a little while to really get going good. Hopefully it's just something that'll condition out. Keep us posted in a few more weeks.

 

[Gameface]

How confident are you in the accuracy of your thermometer?

Has anything changed with your water or brewing practices? I figure it'd be a totally different flavor and not easily confused, but chlorine definitely has a harsh effect.

 

[andy6026]

How confident are you in the accuracy of your thermometer?

Has anything changed with your water or brewing practices? I figure it'd be a totally different flavor and not easily confused, but chlorine definitely has a harsh effect.

I use a thermapen thermometer that I've tested and confirmed to be accurate, so I'm confident with the thermometer. The only things that changed in my brewing practices for this batch was that the trub all got dumped into the fermenter on this batch (and with Pliny there's A LOT of it). Normally I filter it via a mesh screen inside the kettle, but on this batch it jammed up quickly rendering that practice impossible. Normally also my temperatures are controlled much better. This time, as I mentioned above, I missed the yeasts' preferred temp range by 2 degree F. I also used campden tablets to remove chlorine/chloramines from the water as I normally do. I'm hoping that I simply tasted it too young and everything will fall into place. I suspect that might not be the case though, since the last time I brewed this (about a year ago) it was so good even when it was young that I drank a pint of it right out of the fermenter.

 

[Gameface]

I use a thermapen thermometer that I've tested and confirmed to be accurate, so I'm confident with the thermometer. The only things that changed in my brewing practices for this batch was that the trub all got dumped into the fermenter on this batch (and with Pliny there's A LOT of it). Normally I filter it via a mesh screen inside the kettle, but on this batch it jammed up quickly rendering that practice impossible. Normally also my temperatures are controlled much better. This time, as I mentioned above, I missed the yeasts' preferred temp range by 2 degree F. I also used campden tablets to remove chlorine/chloramines from the water as I normally do. I'm hoping that I simply tasted it too young and everything will fall into place. I suspect that might not be the case though, since the last time I brewed this (about a year ago) it was so good even when it was young that I drank a pint of it right out of the fermenter.

You monitor your fermentation temps with a thermapen?

 

[kh54s10]

That is a bit warm but not excessive. It is also a fairly big beer. I bet it will be better with a few weeks of aging..

 

[andy6026]

You monitor your fermentation temps with a thermapen?

Stick on thermometer on the side of the fermenting bucket, and sometimes if I can't see it clearly I'll pop the stopper out and dip the thermapen in.

 

[cobrem]

Your problem may be here : "I made a 2 liter starter using a stir-plate and poured the whole thing into the fermenter (I didn't decant)."

I did this once with a wee heavy, and had that hot nasty taste. With 2 liters, you're adding a lot of not very good spent wort to an otherwise good situation.

I think you can get away with throwing in 1 liter, but I wouldn't do 2 ever again.

 

[andy6026]

Hmmm, that could be a contributing factor as well.

I'm thinking perhaps that the devil is in the detail here - too many 'small' errors are compounding to make this beer far less than ideal.

I haven't yet cracked open a second to see how it's progressing. I'll probably try another later next week to see if there's any improvement. I'll report back what I find.

 

[andy6026]

I've left beer on trub for months since I don't secondary, to oak or just being lazy, and I've never have had any issues. Mashing an IPA at 152 should have produced some body so it's interesting to me how you're getting, what's being described as, an undrinkable booze bite. I don't think you over pitched either and the temp isn't crazy high. It is a tad warm but that does seem to be the only culprit here. Did it take off in the first 12 hours? I know you said you made a starter but sometimes it still needs a little while to really get going good. Hopefully it's just something that'll condition out. Keep us posted in a few more weeks.

I didn't make any notes on that part, but I don't recall noticing any blow-off tube activity before I got it into the swamp cooler. I think it was shortly after that that the activity was noticeable. And with a bigger beer such as this one, the bubbles pushing through sound like machine gun rapid-fire. Of course, the lack of noticeable activity earlier on doesn't necessarily mean a heck of a lot.

 

[podz]

Is that likely fusel alcohol? OR could it be something else? Will it dissipate with time? I realized that i tasted too early, but the last time I brewed this and tasted early it was fantastic. This is so far undrinkable.

Fusel alcohol, once produced, won't dissipate. The taste may mellow over time, but the fusels still won't leave.

That said, with your description of temps, I highly doubt that being 2 degrees fahrenheit on the high side for 12 hours is going to cause fusel production. You actually need to have fermentation actively going in order to produce fusels, which it probably wasn't between the time you pitched and swamp cooled.

 

[andy6026]

***Thread Update***

The beer has conditioned to maturity and it tastes MUCH better! The hot alcohol presence on the finish and after-taste is still there but isn't as strong as it was. The malty character on the front has also rise to the fore as expected.

It's still not the beer that it coulda/shoulda been but is very drinkable nonetheless.

Thanks to everyone who chipped into this thread.

This is still a bit mysterious to me though. If the hot alcohol taste on the finish is mostly fusels then should it have dissipated as much as it did? If it was caused by something else... what? Perhaps it didn't dissipate at all, and instead the coming of age of the other flavors simply masked it very well? Whatever the case, it's well decent enough to share with friends.

 

[unionrdr]

High ABV% can also contribute to this sensation. It's the malt & other flavors that seem to balance it out.

 

[andy6026]

unionrdr, I think you may have hit the nail on the head. My pre-mature tasting yielded a much thinner malt flavor, as expected. Now that it's conditioned, the taste is much more balanced. It's still a little hot on the finish, but it may be now that I'm looking to taste that, and often where you look, you will find.

 

[gfinockio]

***Thread Update***

The beer has conditioned to maturity and it tastes MUCH better! The hot alcohol presence on the finish and after-taste is still there but isn't as strong as it was. The malty character on the front has also rise to the fore as expected.

It's still not the beer that it coulda/shoulda been but is very drinkable nonetheless.

Thanks to everyone who chipped into this thread.

This is still a bit mysterious to me though. If the hot alcohol taste on the finish is mostly fusels then should it have dissipated as much as it did? If it was caused by something else... what? Perhaps it didn't dissipate at all, and instead the coming of age of the other flavors simply masked it very well? Whatever the case, it's well decent enough to share with friends.

Leave it another 2-3 weeks and it will mellow further.