Fly sparing question

[BurlingBrew]

I have always done batch sparge but would to try fly sparging for my next brew.

My question is when you are ready to collect your first runnings do you collect all the wort from the first runnings and then fill up to an inch above the grain bed? Or do you collect just enough to the point where the grain bed is exposed and then use your sparge water to maintain an inch or so above the bed while collecting at the same time

Hope that made sense!

 

[eluterio]

when your fly sparging you make sure there is always 1 inch of 165-170 degree sparge water above your grain bed.

 

[BurlingBrew]

when your fly sparging you make sure there is always 1 inch of 165-170 degree sparge water above your grain bed.

So in other words, you just start collecting and always maintain 1 inch of water above the grain bed Until you reach your pre boil volume/gravity. I would typically batch sparge with 180f water to achieve approx 165f for my second runnings. Fly sparging with the same infusion temps should be fine or do I need to do a mash out?

 

[Natdavis777]

When you are ready to sparge, you will start draining the MLT until you see an inch of liquid above the grainbed. Then you can start adding water from your HLT (at the same rate you are draining the MLT) to maintain that inch of fluid above the grainbed. 1qt/min is the common runoff rate. So if you are collecting a 7 gal preboil volume, it should take you roughly half an hour to sparge.

 

[WrQth]

If the water level is not already 1 inch above the grain level then start sparge until it is 1 inch above then start draining the MLT maintaining 1 inch of sparge water above the grain level. Adjust the rate so that it takes 45-60 minutes.

 

[Jaybird]

If the water level is not already 1 inch above the grain level then start sparge until it is 1 inch above then start draining the MLT maintaining 1 inch of sparge water above the grain level. Adjust the rate so that it takes 45-60 minutes.

Just to add to this a little. You should recirculate to set your grain bed for filtration. You can be adding your cover water at the same time to get you to that 1-2" of water above the bed.

Cheers
Jay

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[BurlingBrew]

Thanks everyone, you have all answered my question.

I know I'm making this out to be more difficult then it really is. I don't have a proper fly sparge set up but will just pour my sparge water over a spoon to maintain proper levels.

Very happy with batch sparging but simply looking to try a different method. Maybe even get a few more efficiency points.

 

[Jaybird]

My buddy just floats a piece of tin foil with holes in it above his bed and pours his water over the top of that. Works like a charm.

Cheers
Jay

 

[BurlingBrew]

My buddy just floats a piece of tin foil with holes in it above his bed and pours his water over the top of that. Works like a charm.

Cheers
Jay

No metallic off flavours from doing that?

 

[SGTSparty]

I just started doing the same thing you're talking about. I have a pot with a spigot and false bottom that I use as my Mashing Tun (also my boil kettle, see below) so I figured why not. I recirc about 4 cups using a measuring cup until its running clear then I drain into a bottling bucket (so that I can easily drain back out into the boil kettle). Once its running clear I take my sparge water heated up in another pot, and use my measuring cup to dump it slowly through a colander, gives it kind of a shower rain head effect. Has worked great for me so far.

Here's a youtube video that I looked at before I did it the first time: https://youtu.be/r7k2OMWkxbw?t=11m40s I tried to cue it up to the start of the sparging part for you but if it doesn't look at the 11:40 mark, thats where it starts. From the looks of it he may have less than the 1-2" inches of cover water over his grain bed but it should give you a great idea.

 

[eric19312]

So in other words, you just start collecting and always maintain 1 inch of water above the grain bed Until you reach your pre boil volume/gravity. I would typically batch sparge with 180f water to achieve approx 165f for my second runnings. Fly sparging with the same infusion temps should be fine or do I need to do a mash out?

This works but it leaves you with a lot of hot water in the mash tun once you hit volume target. I do an 11 gallon batch and my sparge volume is about 7 gallons so if I kept adding sparge water during entire collection there would still be 7 gallons of hot wort to drain from the mash tun (and dump). This would also mean I had to heat an extra 7 gallons of sparge water to 170 just to have this hot thin wort to dump.

Instead I estimate quantity of sparge water I will need to reach my volume target and heat up that plus about a gallon. If I start with 8 gallons of sparge water, and sparge at same rate as I collect, then when I have 8 gallons of wort in my kettle my sparge water will be gone. The grain bed will emerge and end up mostly dry at end of sparge (still wet because it acts like a sponge and there is probably still that extra gallon I used for insurance but not 7 gallons to run off and carry to the drain).

 

[Yesfan]

My cousin is a fly sparger and after mashing was over he would.....

Pump the sparge water volume from his boil kettle into the mash tun, MLT, to raise to mash out temp. With some batches, the water level would be at the rim of the tun. After 10 minutes, he would start draining his MLT into the boil kettle. When the water volume in the tun was about an inch above the grain bed, then he would start to drain his HLT into the MLT and adjust the flow so he maintained an inch of water above the grain bed. He would keep draining until he reached his pre-boil volume.


I don't know why he doesn't drain the first runnings before adding his mash out water. Seems that would reduce the chance of a stuck sparge and you don't max out your tun's volume (especially with big beers), but he's only had one stuck sparge in the four years we've been brewing and his beers all have tasted excellent....much better than mine imo.

So I guess whatever works........

 

[BurlingBrew]

This is all great, thank you everyone. Questions on sparge water temp. If beer smith says my fly sparge water should be 168f does that account for some heat loss and if so should in use 185f water to then achieve 168f? Or just heat my water to 168 and sparge away.

 

[Jaybird]

No metallic off flavours from doing that?

Not that I have found in his beers. I mean don't get me wrong..I tell him his beer sucks all the time, but I'm just kidding..LOL

Cheers
Jay

 

[CKing]

This is all great, thank you everyone. Questions on sparge water temp. If beer smith says my fly sparge water should be 168f does that account for some heat loss and if so should in use 185f water to then achieve 168f? Or just heat my water to 168 and sparge away.

You'll need to heat your water to account for loss and other factors, a few runs on your system should help you dial it in.

I've been brewing with 5 gallon beverage coolers, so I don't have much if any head room in the mash tun to add water for a mash out. I fly sparge, and have had success by heating my sparge water to around 190 degrees. I'll lose around 6 degrees after pouring into the HLT cooler. and during the fly sparge the temperature in the mash tun is raised to 168-170 degrees consistently.

I've worried at times about this method, but have produced well made batches this way so it appears to be working well for me.

 

[BurlingBrew]

You'll need to heat your water to account for loss and other factors, a few runs on your system should help you dial it in.

I've been brewing with 5 gallon beverage coolers, so I don't have much if any head room in the mash tun to add water for a mash out. I fly sparge, and have had success by heating my sparge water to around 190 degrees. I'll lose around 6 degrees after pouring into the HLT cooler. and during the fly sparge the temperature in the mash tun is raised to 168-170 degrees consistently.

I've worried at times about this method, but have produced well made batches this way so it appears to be working well for me.

Would you recommend a mash out if I have the space to do so? I use a 10g cooler as a mash tun. I guess if one is performed I would have less heat loss when I fly sparge thus would not need to heat my water to 190f.

Like you said, a few runs will be required to dial in my system.

Does everyone else mash out?? Would be easy if I had a direct heated mash tun.

 

[BurlingBrew]

I've also read that some mash out using their first runnings, is this a best practice?

 

[BurlingBrew]

Bump

 

[kombat]

I wouldn't think so - what would be the benefit of that? How would that even work? Vorlauf until clear, then collect first runnings, heat to 180° F, return to the mash tun, stir, let it re-settle, vorlauf some more ... for what potential benefit?

 

[kh54s10]

it seems like there have been several variations on fly sparging here.

From what I have read (I batch sparge), You need a false bottom or good manifold to fly sparge, a braid or bazooka tube will drain mostly from the exit end and could lead to channeling, all the sparge going through a narrow channel, not throughout the entire grain bed.

Next, it seems to be best to do a mash out, raising the temperature of the grain bed to 170f or above to stop conversion. This will keep the grain from continuing to add sugars that were not a the mash temperature desired.

After a vorlauf to set the grain bed, and provide a good filter, you start adding the sparge water at a rate that keeps an inch or so above the grain and takes at least 30 minutes and up to an hour to drain.

Often it is measured with both pH and gravity until you get to the right point then stop the fly sparge.

It is such a balancing act to get the right run off, pH and gravity and end up with the needed amount for boil off with all coinciding at the proper time and amount?, that I have had no desire so far to attempt it.

Good luck.

 

[BurlingBrew]

I wouldn't think so - what would be the benefit of that? How would that even work? Vorlauf until clear, then collect first runnings, heat to 180° F, return to the mash tun, stir, let it re-settle, vorlauf some more ... for what potential benefit?

Saw it on an episode of brewing tv. Mash out benefits only I guess.

 

[BurlingBrew]

it seems like there have been several variations on fly sparging here.

From what I have read (I batch sparge), You need a false bottom or good manifold to fly sparge, a braid or bazooka tube will drain mostly from the exit end and could lead to channeling, all the sparge going through a narrow channel, not throughout the entire grain bed.

Next, it seems to be best to do a mash out, raising the temperature of the grain bed to 170f or above to stop conversion. This will keep the grain from continuing to add sugars that were not a the mash temperature desired.

After a vorlauf to set the grain bed, and provide a good filter, you start adding the sparge water at a rate that keeps an inch or so above the grain and takes at least 30 minutes and up to an hour to drain.

Often it is measured with both pH and gravity until you get to the right point then stop the fly sparge.

It is such a balancing act to get the right run off, pH and gravity and end up with the needed amount for boil off with all coinciding at the proper time and amount?, that I have had no desire so far to attempt it.

Good luck.

Yeah good point, the more I think about I ask myself why? Slightly better efficiency, perhaps only to expand on my brewing portfolio? I'll give it a shot at some point but feel batch sparging gives me what I need at the moment