first time yeast starter question

[walker111]

Hi all
Brewing a double batch and using my first starter soon.
Since I only have one stir plate and bar I thought this would be ok????
Boil 1300 ml of water with 1 cup DME in a pot to allow for extra volume or boil over. Cool to around 75. Use my 2000 ml flask and add contents and 2 smackpacks. Starsan foil cover. Put on stir plate for 1-2 days until done fermenting. Split total starter in 2 equal volumes. ( I have a 1000 and 2000 ml flasks) Either cool in fridge until ready to use or pour in on brew day in 2 fermenters and oxygenate wort. And don't lose my stir bar!!!!!

Beer OG. 1.055

This seem ok?

 

[flars]

Hi all
Brewing a double batch and using my first starter soon.
Since I only have one stir plate and bar I thought this would be ok????
Boil 1300 ml of water with 1 cup DME in a pot to allow for extra volume or boil over. Cool to around 75. Use my 2000 ml flask and add contents and 2 smackpacks. Starsan foil cover. Put on stir plate for 1-2 days until done fermenting. Split total starter in 2 equal volumes. ( I have a 1000 and 2000 ml flasks) Either cool in fridge until ready to use or pour in on brew day in 2 fermenters and oxygenate wort. And don't lose my stir bar!!!!!

Beer OG. 1.055

This seem ok?

Put your numbers into a calculator to see how it works out.
http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php

You don't need to use a stir plate to make a starter. It is even thought there is less stress on the yeast not using a stir plate.
Check out this thread. Real information starts with post #12.
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=24460.0

 

[Jtk78]

I agree with checking the numbers in a calculator. I usually use Brewers Friend for starters.

With that said, I will often split my starter, usually to mason jars, and chill them. Works great. I've easily gotton a 10 gallon double batch done with 1 packet of yeast. If your going to do this often, look for a 5 liter flask. I found a great deal on a Pyrex one, and it's been great for these situations.

 

[cactusgarrett]

You should be good with one pouch for a split (1L/1L) with the conditions of 1) you're using an ale yeast and 2) you're targeting a "typical" main beer gravity (lower than 1.070). If you are using a lager strain or going bigger than 1.070 you'll need to step up a second time or go with a larger starter volume. Also, 1-2 days to be "done fermenting" might be too short. If you only go 1-2 days, you'll need to pitch the entire starter (no decanting), as the yeast will likely not have had time to crash out.

Whether you pitch the whole starter versus chill and decant is up to you. If you're going to decant, I would start your starter a week out: give it a good two days to ferment, then two days of cold crashing (depending on your yeast strain). I, personally, don't like pitching full 1L starters into my main batch of beer, as often my starter wort doesn't "match" well with the main batch, so i'll fire up a 1-2L starter a week out, crash, decant, then pitch.

 

[xpops]

2 packs with a starter for 1.055 seems like a lot, if it's an ale. hard to tell with lack of details though. Ale/lager? 5gal/10gal?

like cactus says - if looking to decant, do the starter earlier and let it finish out before cold crashing it.

If you're getting into starters, you could start it even earlier, step it up into a second starter. then you can split it in half! 1/2 for your batch, 1/2 to harvest for your next brew day!

 

[kh54s10]

You can also save money by buying only one pack of yeast and doing a step starter. I use this calculator. http://www.yeastcalculator.com/

On a stirplate I run each step for 18-24 hours. After that they have already produced enough cells and the yeast are then just expending energy that could go into fermenting your beer.

 

[walker111]

Thanks for replies fellas. The beer in question is a double batch of brown ale with OG 1.055. I usually use two smack packs for double batches in two carboys hence why I assumed I would need the two yeast packs.
I do realize that the yeast starter does create more viable cells and I am looking to improve on all aspects of my brewing so I am trying this step. I will start my starter around 5 days prior to brewing to cold crash properly and ferment out as you all suggest. I think I will try the two packs this time and record my results as per usual. 2 packs for 10 gallon should be ok? A 2 liter starter decanted and divided into two.

 

[walker111]

I have a pack of Spray malt DME and it states medium. Is this ok for the starter use? New to this.
Thanks

 

[flars]

Any flavor DME will do the job. You do want to use the calculator to have the specific gravity 1.037 to 1.040 for optimum growth with no stress to the yeast. Use the same water you will use for brewing. No water containing chlorine or chloramine from municipal water supplies unless it is treated.

 

[walker111]

Thanks you again.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

A couple drops of Fermcap-S will let you boil near the flask's full volume without boil-over.

 

[IslandLizard]

A couple drops of Fermcap-S will let you boil near the flask's full volume without boil-over.

I still wouldn't boil in a flask. Use a stainless pot with a well fitting lid.
Easier to chill too in a plastic dishwashing tub with cold tap water. After one or 2 water exchanges add some ice packs if in a hurry.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks for replies fellas. The beer in question is a double batch of brown ale with OG 1.055. I usually use two smack packs for double batches in two carboys hence why I assumed I would need the two yeast packs.
I do realize that the yeast starter does create more viable cells and I am looking to improve on all aspects of my brewing so I am trying this step. I will start my starter around 5 days prior to brewing to cold crash properly and ferment out as you all suggest. I think I will try the two packs this time and record my results as per usual. 2 packs for 10 gallon should be ok? A 2 liter starter decanted and divided into two.

Unless the packs are over 6 months old, 1300 ml of starter for 2 smack packs is not going to yield anymore yeast than pitching 1 pack in it. You'd need a much larger starter volume to grow more. 1300 ml of starter is not going to give you an adequate cell count for a 2x 5 gallon pitch. As mentioned before, use a yeast calculator. The yeast calculator I often use is Brew United / Homebrew Dad's.

Don't forget to oxygenate or at least aerate your wort right before pitching.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

I still wouldn't boil in a flask. [...]
Easier to chill too in a plastic dishwashing tub with cold tap water. After one or 2 water exchanges add some ice packs if in a hurry.

Out of curiosity, why not? A borosilicate glass flask is safe to boil and chill in (if my high school and college chemistry classes were any indicator), and just seems simpler to boil in the flask and then to the stir plate instead of going pot-flask-stir plate.

 

[walker111]

Unless the packs are over 6 months old, 1300 ml of starter for 2 smack packs is not going to yield anymore yeast than pitching 1 pack in it. You'd need a much larger starter volume to grow more. 1300 ml of starter is not going to give you an adequate cell count for a 2x 5 gallon pitch. As mentioned before, use a yeast calculator. Another yeast calculator I use is Brew United / Homebrew Dad's.

Don't forget to oxygenate or at least aerate your wort right before pitching.

I did the starter yesterday. Used 1500 ml water, 1 cup DME, and after cooling to 70 put two smack packs in and on the stir plate. I assumed since I use one pack per 5 gallon then 2 for 10 gallon I am brewing.
I can put in fridge in a few days and do the step up method to add to the original and add another 500 ml, 1/2 cup mix.
I intended to brew Friday so started on Monday with the starter.
I intend to oxygenate with pure 02 and the stone. ( usually shook the carboy)

thanks for help

 

[flars]

Out of curiosity, why not? A borosilicate glass flask is safe to boil and chill in (if my high school and college chemistry classes were any indicator), and just seems simpler to boil in the flask and then to the stir plate instead of going pot-flask-stir plate.

It is the shape of the flask that is the problem. The narrow neck makes a boil over more likely to happen and more violent even when using anti foaming agents unless your flask is very over sized for the amount of wort. The glass also under goes stress with significant temperature changes and will eventually fail. Electric stove elements also bring a flask to an earlier demise. It is just safer to use a kettle.

 

[walker111]

The northern brewer site shows for a 1000ml starter a mix of 1/2 cup dme to 650 ml water and for a 2000ml to double it. I took that as being fine for my double batch 10 gallon.

 

[walker111]

It is the shape of the flask that is the problem. The narrow neck makes a boil over more likely to happen and more violent even when using anti foaming agents unless your flask is very over sized for the amount of wort. The glass also under goes stress with significant temperature changes and will eventually fail. Electric stove elements also bring a flask to an earlier demise. It is just safer to use a kettle.

I boiled in a pot then funneled to the flask.

 

[chris000]

I've been boiling in a cheap flask on the BBQ for quite some time - still wait for the day it breaks and it still hasn't....
currently, I boil on a hot plate stirrer. if you stir while boiling, boil over is also reduced.

 

[flars]

The northern brewer site shows for a 1000ml starter a mix of 1/2 cup dme to 650 ml water and for a 2000ml to double it. I took that as being fine for my double batch 10 gallon.

The ideal specific gravity for a starter wort is 1.037. This is achieved with a 10:1 ratio of water to DME. A half cup of DME may weigh about 166 grams. One-half cup or 83 grams would yield a 1.047 wort. 650 milliliters of water and 65 grams of DME would give you the 10:1 ratio. It is best to weigh the ingredients for a starter. Like in baking bread the weight of the flour in the measuring cup depends upon how you fill it. Even though I spend time on the NB forum I'm can still be a little critical sometimes. I'm just me.

I'll use this calculator when making a starter.
http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php
The calculator has helpful info for the values entered into various cells.

 

[IslandLizard]

Out of curiosity, why not? A borosilicate glass flask is safe to boil and chill in (if my high school and college chemistry classes were any indicator), and just seems simpler to boil in the flask and then to the stir plate instead of going pot-flask-stir plate.

As @flars pointed out, direct heating will cause stresses in the glass vessel, and one day the odds add up and it will crack. There are a few posts around documenting and showing the nasty results.

Glass vessels, like flasks, come in different grades and most of the ones we use for yeast starters aren't actually 100% borosilicate or tempered. In the labs typically only round bottomed vessels are heated, and usually indirectly by partial immersion in a temperature controlled water or oil bath. Sometimes with electric heating jackets.

A couple drops of Fermcap-S will let you boil near the flask's full volume without boil-over.

One drop per gallon or partial gallon is plenty! Make sure to shake the bottle of Fermcap-S up well before use, and store in refrigerator between uses. As @flars pointed out, the tapered shape of the vessel doesn't stop sudden boil overs, it may well increase the risk.

I find it way simpler to boil in a stainless pot, cover and chill in a tub with cold water. Then pour the wort into a well sanitized flask. I often do 2 or more 1.6 liter starter batches at a time. And yes, I use a drop of Fermcap in the pot. It also helps against excessive foaming of the starter, most importantly when the stir bar gets thrown and yeast propagation suddenly turns into simple fermentation.

The northern brewer site shows for a 1000ml starter a mix of 1/2 cup dme to 650 ml water and for a 2000ml to double it. I took that as being fine for my double batch 10 gallon.

Again, stop reading NB (e.g., all their recipes still include using obsolete or even detrimental use of secondaries) and stick to the good advice given here. Play with some of the drop downs and numbers in the yeast calculators and see for yourself how many cells a given starter batch can grow.

 

[walker111]

I don't do a secondary. Started that way but the past year do a single ferment.

I had my starter on the plate for 40 hours. I put in fridge this morning to settle out the yeast. Will decant tonight.
I now plan to step it up as I aim to brew the 10g beer friday.
I will measure by mass the DME to water ratio of 10 to 1 and add another 500 ml to my 1500 ml starter that contains 2 smack packs. When I am ready to add the yeast I will split into 2 equal volumes. maybe even pitch Saturday to give the yeast 16 extra hours.
This sound ok?
I did review the calculator and the total amount of cells with my original starter showed 400.

 

[IslandLizard]

I don't do a secondary. Started that way but the past year do a single ferment.

I had my starter on the plate for 40 hours. I put in fridge this morning to settle out the yeast. Will decant tonight.
I now plan to step it up as I aim to brew the 10g beer friday.
I will measure by mass the DME to water ratio of 10 to 1 and add another 500 ml to my 1500 ml starter that contains 2 smack packs. When I am ready to add the yeast I will split into 2 equal volumes. maybe even pitch Saturday to give the yeast 16 extra hours.
This sound ok?
I did review the calculator and the total amount of cells with my original starter showed 400.

Depending on the yeast, it may take longer than 12 hours to cold crash it. Keep that in mind.
Although 400 billion cells will turn into 600 billion in a 2 liter starter, it's not the most effective way to grow. The inoculation rate (~200 cells/ml) is about 2x higher than the maximum amount for efficient growth.
Instead, you could easily grow 700 billion cells by just pitching 100 (or 200) billion cells in 2 liters. Then save 50-100 billion out for your next starter.

If you want to go ahead and add your 400 billion to a 2 liter starter, read up on "Vitality Starters." After a maximum of 4-6 hours on the stir plate, you'd pitch the whole 2 liters, without cold crashing.

 

[walker111]

Thanks for that information. I like that idea.
I had a good yeast cake on the bottom and decanted off most of the wort on top. Didn'y even loose my stirbar!!!!!
Boiled 650ml and added my DME in the ratio 10:1 . On stir plate now and will leave until tomorrow and split in two volumes for each carboy.
Will read more for next time but with this I aim to have around the cell count good for the double batch.
thanks again for the help

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks for that information. I like that idea.
I had a good yeast cake on the bottom and decanted off most of the wort on top. Didn'y even loose my stirbar!!!!!
Boiled 650ml and added my DME in the ratio 10:1 . On stir plate now and will leave until tomorrow and split in two volumes for each carboy.
Will read more for next time but with this I aim to have around the cell count good for the double batch.
thanks again for the help

Only 650ml ??? I thought I indicated a 2 liter starter would be too small already.

Use the calc, Luke!

 

[walker111]

But I stepped it up twice and started with two packets. Calculator shows over 400 billion for the 10 gallon and it shows I needed 397. I pitched it Friday and used pure 02 for first time on the stone and it took off. Seems to only bubble very slow now ( Tuesday). Being paranoid, I also split another wyeast 1056 into the two carboys when I added the starter. I would hope this is enough yeast!

With the last name walker I like the Luke reference!!!

thanks again

 

[parrothead64]

I’ve been boiling in the same flask for few years now I like it because there’s less chance of contamination. It took a few tries to get the heat right but I can do it without boil overs. I put a sanitized piece of foil over it for the last 5 min of the boil. Then I know it’s clean.

 

[IslandLizard]

But I stepped it up twice and started with two packets. Calculator shows over 400 billion for the 10 gallon and it shows I needed 397. I pitched it Friday and used pure 02 for first time on the stone and it took off. Seems to only bubble very slow now ( Tuesday). Being paranoid, I also split another wyeast 1056 into the two carboys when I added the starter. I would hope this is enough yeast!

With the last name walker I like the Luke reference!!!

thanks again

Your starter was likely large enough. Remember, these calculators only provide estimates, you'd be the judge. Using a good dose of pure O2 definitely helps to get the yeast off to another speedy and healthy growth phase. I don't think adding the extra split pack was necessary at that point. But all will be fine, it's difficult to overpitch. For that you'd need >4x the recommended cell count!

Slow and steady fermentations are the best! If you can keep the fermenting beer temps constant at the recommended temps (say, 66-68F), you'll make good, clean beer. Airlock activity is not a reliable gauge of fermentation, especially if the fermentor isn't hermetically sealed everywhere else. RDWHAHB!

I hope you harvest your yeast (or at least some) for your next brew(s)!