First time using lager yeast wlp820

[aharri1]

Hey everybody! I pitched the yeast for my first lager Sunday night and keep getting conflicting information from the website for wlp820 for the best temperature range. My temp has been steady around 48 to 50 for the first 3 days and I saw a bubble in the airlock every 30 seconds this morning. I was just wondering if anyone has used this yeast before and had any temp schedule suggestions? Here is my lager so far !

 

[GoeHaarden]

White Labs lists it's optimum temp range to be 52-58F. If that is the most activity you have gotten (and I don't see a krausen ring) then something is wrong. I'd raise it to at least 52F.

Did you make a starter? I typically pitch 1 gallon starter for my lagers and they usually take off like my ales. Maybe a tad slower on occasion, but never past 24 hours...

 

[aharri1]

White Labs lists it's optimum temp range to be 52-58F. If that is the most activity you have gotten (and I don't see a krausen ring) then something is wrong. I'd raise it to at least 52F.

Did you make a starter? I typically pitch 1 gallon starter for my lagers and they usually take off like my ales. Maybe a tad slower on occasion, but never past 24 hours...

Thanks !! I pitched a 2L starter at about 65 degrees while the wort was chilled to around 52 Sunday around 5pm. Held the temp about 48 degrees for the first 3 days and I'm getting airlock activity every 25 seconds so I have positive pressure, but the krausen is a very small ring looks like concentrate in groups of small bubbles and a full circular ring with another one nearby it and I do have about a 1 to 2 inch yeast cake on the bottom. I kicked the temperature up to 53 on the controller and it's holding around 52.5 now. I guess I should kick it up a degree a day until the weekend? In hindsight I should have made a better starter since this is my first lager I guess live and learn [emoji14] I'm sure it'll eventually take off though. I plan to take a gravity reading Saturday.

 

[okiedog]

Yeast prefers to warm up in its new environment (your wort). Yeast that has to cool down to wort temp, will take longer to acclimate. When pitching at lager temps, you need to pitch more yeast (usually 3-4 times as much as for ales), and all that yeast needs a lot of oxygen. Also, that yeast sometimes has slow starts. If you can't ferment your starter at pitching temp., it is better to cool it down in the fridge when it is finished fermenting, and allow at least a day before pitching it. I pitch slurry or starters after they have been refrigerated. This allows them to store up nutrients as they go into hibernation. I pitch my slurries or starters at 40-45F into 50-64F wort. Make sure to pour off most of the beer and give the jar a swirl, then pour it in.

 

[aharri1]

Yeast prefers to warm up in its new environment (your wort). Yeast that has to cool down to wort temp, will take longer to acclimate. When pitching at lager temps, you need to pitch more yeast (usually 3-4 times as much as for ales), and it all that yeast needs a lot of oxygen. Also, that yeast sometimes has slow starts. If you can't ferment your starter at pitching temp., it is better to cool it down in the fridge when it is finished fermenting, and allow at least a day before pitching it. I pitch slurry or starters after they have been refrigerated. This allows them to store up nutrients as they go into hibernation. I pitch my slurries or starters at 40-45F into 50-64F wort. Make sure to pour off most of the beer and give the jar a swirl, then pour it in.

I'll definitely do that next time! I plan to do another lager soon. since I pumped up the temperature I'm getting an airlock bubble every 13 seconds now so it seems to be ramping up!

 

[dmtaylor]

WLP820 is fussy and tends to finish at very high gravity about 1.020. After fermentation has been going for 5-6 days, be sure to warm it up into the 60s F so it doesn't fall asleep on you and so you can get everything out of it that it has to give.

 

[aharri1]

WLP820 is fussy and tends to finish at very high gravity about 1.020. After fermentation has been going for 5-6 days, be sure to warm it up into the 60s F so it doesn't fall asleep on you and so you can get everything out of it that it has to give.

Thank you so much for the advice I will definitely kick it up into the 60s when I check the gravity Saturday if need be!

 

[GoeHaarden]

FWIW, lager fermentation usually looks the same as ale fermentation just a little more tame with a small krausen (<1 inch typically)

Cheers!

 

[aharri1]

FWIW, lager fermentation usually looks the same as ale fermentation just a little more tame with a small krausen (<1 inch typically)

Cheers!

Thank you brother! Since I bumped the temperature to around 54 is picked up speed I guess it's just needed a little more warmth. I'll hold it stay there and check gravity Saturday at the Six-Day mark

 

[okiedog]

My 2 cents: if it is doing well at 54F, I would try to slowly coax it a bit lower (52-53F), and leave it there until you see it slowing down. Then you could let it slowly rise up to 58-60F over a few days. To keep that clean lager character, you want it to stay low thru most of the primary fermentation. That and lagering help keep it clean and smooth.

 

[aharri1]

My 2 cents: if it is doing well at 54F, I would try to slowly coax it a bit lower (52-53F), and leave it there until you see it slowing down. Then you could let it slowly rise up to 58-60F over a few days. To keep that clean lager character, you want it to stay low thru most of the primary fermentation. That and lagering help keep it clean and smooth.

For whatever reason earlier I felt the urge to lower my thermostat control to 50 and got it down to 52 again. I plan to hold it there and check it again tomorrow evening for activity! When it slows down I do plan to set the thermostat to around 58 and let it rise on it's own for 2-3 days then [emoji3] I plan for lagering in my Kegerator around 33 for 6 weeks also!

Thanks for the help and info!

 

[okiedog]

Sounds like a good plan. Just don't let it go too high in the fermentor though. Personally, I like to prime my kegs and then hold them at 60-65F for 10-14 days to self carb and use up as much residual O2 as possible. Then I put them in the fridge to cold condition. They just seem to be better than the force carbed beers. This is especially true of lagers.

 

[aharri1]

Sounds like a good plan. Just don't let it go too high in the fermentor though. Personally, I like to prime my kegs and then hold them at 60-65F for 10-14 days to self carb and use up as much residual O2 as possible. Then I put them in the fridge to cold condition. They just seem to be better than the force carbed beers. This is especially true of lagers.

I've never primed a keg before, I usually put them on a slow 7-Day carb schedule of 20 psi. I may try that because I've always done ales! Thanks again ! I assume you don't have to put any CO2 on them if you prime them naturally?

 

[ChuckS1]

Well, for what it's worth, I've got an Oktoberfest in my fermenter now with WLP820. Pitched a 3.5L starter into 52F wort at 8PM and at 8 the next morning it was bubbling away. Eight days later it had gone from 1.059 down to 1.024. Looking to go down to 1.016-1.018. Hopefully it doesn't stop at 1.020.

 

[aharri1]

Well, for what it's worth, I've got an Oktoberfest in my fermenter now with WLP820. Pitched a 3.5L starter into 52F wort at 8PM and at 8 the next morning it was bubbling away. Eight days later it had gone from 1.059 down to 1.024. Looking to go down to 1.016-1.018. Hopefully it doesn't stop at 1.020.

I hear you! only pitched a 2 liter starter and it's been bubbling away in the airlock and it does have a 16th of an inch ring around the edge of krausen bubbles so it's going I guess I just need to check the gravity tomorrow at day 6 and see what's up! It does have a yeast cake of over and inch at the bottom too!

 

[aharri1]

I hear you! only pitched a 2 liter starter and it's been bubbling away in the airlock and it does have a 16th of an inch ring around the edge of krausen bubbles so it's going I guess I just need to check the gravity tomorrow at day 6 and see what's up! It does have a yeast cake of over and inch at the bottom too!

Here's a pic

 

[aharri1]

Update... I took a gravity reading only moved from 1.056 to 1.054....... I think I'm going to bump the temperature into the 57-58 range.

 

[aharri1]

Sounds like a good plan. Just don't let it go too high in the fermentor though. Personally, I like to prime my kegs and then hold them at 60-65F for 10-14 days to self carb and use up as much residual O2 as possible. Then I put them in the fridge to cold condition. They just seem to be better than the force carbed beers. This is especially true of lagers.

Update... I took a gravity reading only moved from 1.056 to 1.054....... I think I'm going to bump the temperature into the 57-58 range. Any thing you could suggest ?

 

[GoeHaarden]

IMO, I'd pitch more yeast asap. I don't think you're freezing your yeast enough to not chew anything up or even get started! Even if you pitched an extremely low cell count of healthy yeast you would have had some fermentation even at those temps.

 

[aharri1]

IMO, I'd pitch more yeast asap. I don't think you're freezing your yeast enough to not chew anything up or even get started! Even if you pitched an extremely low cell count of healthy yeast you would have had some fermentation even at those temps.

Thanks for the reply sir! All I have on hand right now is some us safale 05... No lager yeast .. I can run by the brew store tomorrow morning and grab some though. Hopefully that's soon enough

 

[okiedog]

+1 on pitching more yeast. What you have doesn't look like much. Better later than never, though. Just get more yeast in there as soon as you can. The first generation of that yeast is slow to move. Increased cell count (more yeast) is what it needs. When you do add more yeast, it will need more oxygen. A good shaking of the carboy will help with that.

 

[aharri1]

+1 on pitching more yeast. What you have doesn't look like much. Better later than never, though. Just get more yeast in there as soon as you can. The first generation of that yeast is slow to move. Increased cell count (more yeast) is what it needs. When you do add more yeast, it will need more oxygen. A good shaking of the carboy will help with that.

Thanks! I plan to pick some more up tomorrow afternoon, pitch it, and make a whirlpool in the carboy for awhile to make sure it's oxygenated! Should I keep the temp raised around 55 this time? Or take it back down to 52?

 

[okiedog]

That should do it. Good luck! After the 6 weeks lagering, please update this post and let us know how it turned out.

 

[aharri1]

That should do it. Good luck! After the 6 weeks lagering, please update this post and let us know how it turned out.

I definitely will brother thank you! I turned the temperature controller to 46 and I'm picking up some wyeast Octoberfest in a smack pack. I'll give it a few hours to swell and hopefully pitch again around 6 tonight. I let the temp get to 58 last night and let it stay there overnight and hoping it would start so I'm going to ramp it back down to 48 and let it cool again to lager Temps

 

[aharri1]

Thanks for all the help everyone! I went to my local brew shop and got a wyeast 2633 smack pack, some DME, and some fermax yeast nutrient. I'm going to make a proper starter Let It Go 24 hours cool it 24 hours to the pitching temp and do it right!

 

[okiedog]

I wouldn't drop the temp that low at this point. You've already done that, but at least you can warm it up a bit from there. Also, unless the new yeast that you get is several months old, I would just dump it in and start warming it up to about 52F. Time is of the essence. It should take off within 24 hours. Ask for the date on the yeast pack before you buy it. If it is more than a 2-3 months old, ask if they have a fresher pack. If not, make a 1l starter and dump it in when in is active - hopefully within 12-24 hours.

 

[aharri1]

I wouldn't drop the temp that low at this point. You've already done that, but at least you can warm it up a bit from there. Also, unless the new yeast that you get is several months old, I would just dump it in and start warming it up to about 52F. Time is of the essence. It should take off within 24 hours. Ask for the date on the yeast pack before you buy it. If it is more than a 2-3 months old, ask if they have a fresher pack. If not, make a 1l starter and dump it in when in is active - hopefully within 12-24 hours.

I pitched a 2l starter at 1.040 gravity last night and it finished within 24 hours. I just put it in the refrigerator and plan to pitch the slurry in the morning around 50 degrees to make sure that the yeast is the same temperature as the wort. Do you think I should go ahead and Pitch it now at room temp?

 

[aharri1]

I went ahead and took your advice and pitched the yeast! The manufacturing date was September 18th. The 24-hour starter fermented well and I just dumped the whole thing in along with 5 tsp of fermax. Thanks for all the help! I hope it shows signs by tomorrow afternoon [emoji41]

 

[ChuckS1]

Just to show that WLP820 isn't hopeless, I just checked my Oktoberfest and it's down to 1.011. Pitched on 19 September at 1.059, down to1.024 of 26 September and today, 1 October, finished at 1.011. I aerated with an aquarium pump and stone for 45 minutes, pitched a decanted 3.5L starter at 52F and let it rise to 54F, where I've kept it in my fermentation chamber.

 

[aharri1]

Just to show that WLP820 isn't hopeless, I just checked my Oktoberfest and it's down to 1.011. Pitched on 19 September at 1.059, down to1.024 of 26 September and today, 1 October, finished at 1.011. I aerated with an aquarium pump and stone for 45 minutes, pitched a decanted 3.5L starter at 52F and let it rise to 54F, where I've kept it in my fermentation chamber.

I hear you on that! Thanks to all the replies and some research online I guess I have learned my lesson that I need to pitch a bigger starter and get it cooler than the wort!! Hopefully the next 24-48 hours I will see some activity. I re-pitched around midnight last night. I plan to buy a 5l flask and a stir plate soon!

 

[okiedog]

aharri1, I hope all goes well for you. I harvest and pitch yeast slurry, and 2nd generation of the O'fest yeasts are much quicker to start. For some reason it seems that the 1st gen is always slow to start. I think it just needs a higher cell count.

 

[aharri1]

aharri1, I hope all goes well for you. I harvest and pitch yeast slurry, and 2nd generation of the O'fest yeasts are much quicker to start. For some reason it seems that the 1st gen is always slow to start. I think it just needs a higher cell count.

Thank you, and I totally agree with you! It's about 12 hours in and I took a look at wort and the yeast is cloudy going towards the top and saw a bubble every 30 seconds in my airlock so maybe that's a good sign. I'll probably take a look again around supper time. Holding steady at 54 degrees now. I have never tried harvesting yeast but I would really like to. any suggestions on that? Tired of paying 5 to 7 Bucks everytime I brew for yeast!

 

[aharri1]

Well folks we have liftoff!! I either under pitched even though I did a starter or just had some bad yeast. I didn't think to look at the manufacturing date from the yeast I ordered online [emoji52]. I cut the temperature down to 52 and plan to ramp it down to 50 by late tonight depending on how it looks.

 

[okiedog]

Awesome! Glad to hear you're fermenting.

 

[aharri1]

Thanks brother!

 

[aharri1]

Got a stir plate and a 5-liter flask I'm now ready to rock! no more under pitching LOL

 

[okiedog]

Okay! I have had good luck with both Imperial and Gigayeast. They both 200 billion cells, which is like double Wyeast or White Labs packs.

 

[aharri1]

Okay! I have had good luck with both Imperial and Gigayeast. They both 200 billion cells, which is like double Wyeast or White Labs packs.

Awesome! I'll check them out

 

[jveruin]

Hey everybody! I pitched the yeast for my first lager Sunday night and keep getting conflicting information from the website for wlp820 for the best temperature range. My temp has been steady around 48 to 50 for the first 3 days and I saw a bubble in the airlock every 30 seconds this morning. I was just wondering if anyone has used this yeast before and had any temp schedule suggestions? Here is my lager so far ! View attachment 590065

This strain is notoriously slow. Like, really slow. I’ve been at the same place. It will likely take off, but even Ehite Labs warns about the slowness in early generations.

 

[aharri1]

This strain is notoriously slow. Like, really slow. I’ve been at the same place. It will likely take off, but even Ehite Labs warns about the slowness in early generations.

I think I might have got a bad strain. I went ahead and Pitched some wyeast 2263 and did a starter and it took off Monday night! Thanks for the response !