First Post: Question! - Cold Crashing, Clarification, Priming, Bottling Bucket.

[Eschaton_YDAU]

Hi everyone!

I've already gotten so much good information from this site (thank you!), so I decided to register and ask a question (or two).

Here is my situation.

In about a week I'm going to start cold crashing then bottling a 5 gallon batch (Midwest's autumn amber ale kit), after 2 weeks of primary fermentation in the standard kit bucket.

2 questions on this front:

Number 1:
Does anyone have any experience with WilliamsWarn's clarification agent?

I don't have their silly, spend-y brewery, but I thought this product looked like a great substitute for gelatin.

It's colloidal silicon dioxide - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00N37FIRM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I'll be using it according to whatever instructions are on the bottle (works best at cold temperatures, go with 2 additions, etc.)

My most recent (first) beer, turned out, let's say, opaque. Modified a few things on brew day to help with that, trying to cold crash, etc., so fingers crossed for a better outcome.

Number 2:

Since the beer hasn't been racked to secondary, I had the brilliant idea of cold crashing in the bottling bucket, leaving the trub behind in the primary, moving the beer to the bottling bucket, and letting the lees settle out there after adding the clarification agent (hopefully below the level of the bottling spigot).

Is this a good idea, or just wasted effort?

One problem that just occurred to me is the matter of the priming solution. Since I would not be racking on top of it to bottle, how could I ensure an even mixture without oxidizing the beer through stirring? Which might also disturb the lees...

Maybe I'm overthinking it, but if anyone has experience with cold crashing and clarifying from a single stage fermentation and wants to give out some tips, well, here I am!

Thanks!

 

[doug293cz]

I would cold crash and fine in the primary. Then rack to the bottling bucket, with the priming solution in the bottom of the bucket.

Brew on

 

[Eschaton_YDAU]

I would cold crash and fine in the primary. Then rack to the bottling bucket, with the priming solution in the bottom of the bucket.

Brew on

Sounds so... reasonable. Thanks!

Any advice on cold crashing time?

I don't have much temperature control on the freezer I'm using, but plan to test its settings (arbitrary numeric scale on the dial, not temperature) in the coming days with a thermometer. I'm assuming it takes a while to get 5 gallons in a plastic bucket to near freezing.

 

[JLeuck64]

I still bottle and I am at a loss as to why you would want to cold crash before transferring to a bottling bucket? I was under the impression that those folks who KEG want to cold crash because they will "use the force" carbonation method. Those of us who bottle condition will use the yeast to naturally carb up the beers... so why would you want to crash them before bottling?!

As a side note, coming from one who has tried to brew beer on the ahem... 2 week in primary then bottle it methodology, don't do it! Check your beer after 2 weeks with a hydrometer then check it at 3 weeks with a hydrometer. If it hasn't changed by week 3 then you are ready to bottle. If it has changed at week 3 then WAIT until week 4 to bottle it. (if it has changed by week 4 then WAIT until week 5... etc...)

Beer will clear naturally and WHEN you take a gravity sample at 2 weeks you will get a good look at the clarity of your beer. Go ahead and give it another week to clear then take another look, and a gravity sample. You will be amazed at the change... in both clarity and gravity ( ; it won't hurt to leave it in the primary longer.

 

[doug293cz]

I still bottle and I am at a loss as to why you would want to cold crash before transferring to a bottling bucket? I was under the impression that those folks who KEG want to cold crash because they will "use the force" carbonation method. Those of us who bottle condition will use the yeast to naturally carb up the beers... so why would you want to crash them before bottling?!

As a side note, coming from one who has tried to brew beer on the ahem... 2 week in primary then bottle it methodology, don't do it! Check your beer after 2 weeks with a hydrometer then check it at 3 weeks with a hydrometer. If it hasn't changed by week 3 then you are ready to bottle. If it has changed at week 3 then WAIT until week 4 to bottle it. (if it has changed by week 4 then WAIT until week 5... etc...)

Beer will clear naturally and WHEN you take a gravity sample at 2 weeks you will get a good look at the clarity of your beer. Go ahead and give it another week to clear then take another look, and a gravity sample. You will be amazed at the change... in both clarity and gravity ( ; it won't hurt to leave it in the primary longer.

There is still sufficient yeast suspended in the beer after cold crashing and fining to bottle carbonate. I did multiple batches that way before I started kegging.

Brew on

 

[Eschaton_YDAU]

I still bottle and I am at a loss as to why you would want to cold crash before transferring to a bottling bucket? I was under the impression that those folks who KEG want to cold crash because they will "use the force" carbonation method. Those of us who bottle condition will use the yeast to naturally carb up the beers... so why would you want to crash them before bottling?!

As a side note, coming from one who has tried to brew beer on the ahem... 2 week in primary then bottle it methodology, don't do it! Check your beer after 2 weeks with a hydrometer then check it at 3 weeks with a hydrometer. If it hasn't changed by week 3 then you are ready to bottle. If it has changed at week 3 then WAIT until week 4 to bottle it. (if it has changed by week 4 then WAIT until week 5... etc...)

Beer will clear naturally and WHEN you take a gravity sample at 2 weeks you will get a good look at the clarity of your beer. Go ahead and give it another week to clear then take another look, and a gravity sample. You will be amazed at the change... in both clarity and gravity ( ; it won't hurt to leave it in the primary longer.

I am now also at a loss as to why I wanted to transfer before fining - seemed like a good idea at the time. Maybe something about just leaving the sediment out twice.

Since the worst thing about my last beer was its opacity (and I left in primary for about 3 weeks), I want to throw everything I can at this batch to clarify it, so cold crashing, fining, etc.

 

[Eschaton_YDAU]

I still bottle and I am at a loss as to why you would want to cold crash before transferring to a bottling bucket? I was under the impression that those folks who KEG want to cold crash because they will "use the force" carbonation method. Those of us who bottle condition will use the yeast to naturally carb up the beers... so why would you want to crash them before bottling?!

As a side note, coming from one who has tried to brew beer on the ahem... 2 week in primary then bottle it methodology, don't do it! Check your beer after 2 weeks with a hydrometer then check it at 3 weeks with a hydrometer. If it hasn't changed by week 3 then you are ready to bottle. If it has changed at week 3 then WAIT until week 4 to bottle it. (if it has changed by week 4 then WAIT until week 5... etc...)

Beer will clear naturally and WHEN you take a gravity sample at 2 weeks you will get a good look at the clarity of your beer. Go ahead and give it another week to clear then take another look, and a gravity sample. You will be amazed at the change... in both clarity and gravity ( ; it won't hurt to leave it in the primary longer.

And now I'm not sure why I wanted t transfer twice! I may let it sit in primary longer, we'll see. The last one was there for 3 weeks.

 

[Jwin]

Cold crashing in the bottling bucket will oxidize the beer.
No need to secondary a standard ale.
Enough yeast remain in solution to carb the bottles.
If you don't cold crash, then it only creates more sediment. un-fined beer will clear with time in the bottle in cold storage but create more gunk in the bottom of the bottle.
No idea on the silicone dioxide stuff, but it is commonly used as an anti caking agent and also referred to as plexiglass.

 

[Eschaton_YDAU]

Cold crashing in the bottling bucket will oxidize the beer.
No need to secondary a standard ale.
Enough yeast remain in solution to carb the bottles.
If you don't cold crash, then it only creates more sediment. un-fined beer will clear with time in the bottle in cold storage but create more gunk in the bottom of the bottle.
No idea on the silicone dioxide stuff, but it is commonly used as an anti caking agent and also referred to as plexiglass.

Thanks for the info!

I'm hoping to get the "gunk" out before bottling to impress friends who aren't completely familiar with the fact that beer comes from yeast and that sediment won't kill you.

Silicon dioxide is actually the major component of common glass, not the synthetics. It would definitely be in fiberglass (tiny spun glass tubes), but not plexiglass

 

[Jwin]

Use kettle finings (I like whirlfloc), a highly flocculant yeast and cold crash.
If you get it to almost freezing temps for a few days, it will clear well.
Then be sure to chill your bottles for an extended time before bottling.
I actually did an eisPA a couple months ago. No gelatin and crystal clear. Considering it was fermented with conan, I was happy. Repitched at bottling...

 

[JosephN]

Use kettle finings (I like whirlfloc), a highly flocculant yeast and cold crash.
If you get it to almost freezing temps for a few days, it will clear well.
Then be sure to chill your bottles for an extended time before bottling.
I actually did an eisPA a couple months ago. No gelatin and crystal clear. Considering it was fermented with conan, I was happy. Repitched at bottling...

Why do our chill your bottles first?

 

[Eschaton_YDAU]

Use kettle finings (I like whirlfloc), a highly flocculant yeast and cold crash.
If you get it to almost freezing temps for a few days, it will clear well.
Then be sure to chill your bottles for an extended time before bottling.
I actually did an eisPA a couple months ago. No gelatin and crystal clear. Considering it was fermented with conan, I was happy. Repitched at bottling...

The whirlfloc for the next batch just came in. Thanks!

 

[Jwin]

Why do our chill your bottles first?

Once carbonated, chilling for an extended time will clear the beer more.

 

[JosephN]

Once carbonated, chilling for an extended time will clear the beer more.

But you said to chill your bottles before bottling. You might have misspoke. If this is the case though why would you chill them first?

 

[Yourrealdad]

The easiest thing to do would be to not worry about clearing the beer or fining it at all. You can just let it clear through time in the bottle.

If I read correctly you fermented in a bucket? I have never fermented in a bucket, but if you cold crash in a bucket then won't you pull oxygen back into the bucket and start the oxidation process?

If you want to use finings do it in the primary then bottle.

Also agree with the 2 weeks is two early. I always go minimum of 3 weeks in primary so the beer can clean itself up and gravity is hit (sometimes to far). If you can't wait an extre week or two just go buy some quality craft beer while you wait.

 

[doug293cz]

But you said to chill your bottles before bottling. You might have misspoke. If this is the case though why would you chill them first?

If you are bottling from a keg, and don't have a counter pressure filler, then chilling the bottles is important in order to minimize loss of carbonation during the bottling process. If you are filling from a bottling bucket, then there is no need to chill the bottles.

Brew on

 

[Eschaton_YDAU]

The easiest thing to do would be to not worry about clearing the beer or fining it at all. You can just let it clear through time in the bottle.

If I read correctly you fermented in a bucket? I have never fermented in a bucket, but if you cold crash in a bucket then won't you pull oxygen back into the bucket and start the oxidation process?

If you want to use finings do it in the primary then bottle.

Also agree with the 2 weeks is two early. I always go minimum of 3 weeks in primary so the beer can clean itself up and gravity is hit (sometimes to far). If you can't wait an extre week or two just go buy some quality craft beer while you wait.

I will probably let it go longer in the bucket - I let the last one go 3 weeks. Right now I'm gradually moving it to warmer parts of the house to hopefully keep the yeast from giving up on their clean up job, now that most of the fermentation is done (it's been a week and airlock activity mostly stopped about 3 days ago).

I think I really just need to get a secondary - the reason I want to get it into bottles is to clear up the primary fermenter

Cold crashing will cause suckback, true, but I think it will be minimal compared to the bottling process itself (just a suspicion - I have only the most basic bottling equipment). I think I'm less worried about oxidation from suckback - there a fair amount of CO2 in the headspace that should mostly protect the beer - than I am about getting the beer as clear as possible.

 

[Jwin]

I will probably let it go longer in the bucket - I let the last one go 3 weeks. Right now I'm gradually moving it to warmer parts of the house to hopefully keep the yeast from giving up on their clean up job, now that most of the fermentation is done (it's been a week and airlock activity mostly stopped about 3 days ago).

I think I really just need to get a secondary - the reason I want to get it into bottles is to clear up the primary fermenter

Cold crashing will cause suckback, true, but I think it will be minimal compared to the bottling process itself (just a suspicion - I have only the most basic bottling equipment). I think I'm less worried about oxidation from suckback - there a fair amount of CO2 in the headspace that should mostly protect the beer - than I am about getting the beer as clear as possible.

Sorry if I mispoke. Or maybe autocorrected. Sounds like you just need another fermenter. O2 and co2 happily mix. The co2 "blanket" is a myth.
Also, I'll share my hillbilly temperature regulation.
My fermentation fridge is holding the spiedel but I had a triple brew day while the weather was nice.

My mash tun is doing double duty here, and heating happening with the brewhardware hot rod.

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[Jwin]

I don't think that suck back should be a huge concern. Crash if u want. Just don't open it until you are ready to rack it.
And don't forget to use a S airlock, not a 3 piece.