First No Sparge Belgian

[Shaffer1515]

Just started mashing in a new mash tun (chest cooler) from my old mash tun which was too small. Brewed yesterday a Belgian Triple which was to have a gravity of 1.076 OG which ended out coming out to be 1.052. We mashed 1.25qt/lb of grain (1.25*13lb = roughly 4gal) for 60 min. then figured 5 gallons to strike @200 degrees and ran off all the liquid. The liquid amount seemed to be correct (about 6.5 gal) but preboil was only coming in at 1.040. So we did a 90 min boil, @60 add hops @15 add hops/irish moss/1lb Belgian white sugar. Then cooled to about 64 degrees too a reading and as I said disappointment at 1.052. Are bigger beers like this best to be batch sparged? Or maybe something else I am doing is wrong? I did a stout days before that came in spot on doing the same methods (except less mash/strike water because of less grains).

 

[serum]

What recipe did you use and and how much beer did you end up with in the end? I can see how it compares to beers I've made and see if I can offer any help.

I tend to mash in similar to you, then fill up with just enough boiling water to mash out and then do a small fly sparge to rinse off the remaining grain and this works well. I tend to need about 40L of water to do this which seems similar to what you've used.

I wonder if you're adding too much water in the second addition and you could maybe sparge with some of that once you've reached 75C or maybe you could just drain the tun after the first addition and add the second lot as a batch sparge.

It's easy to make a simple sparge arm for a chest cooler using a plank of wood and a length of copper piping with holes drilled to spread the water. I've done this and it works really well.

If you don't sparge I imagine you'll get less of the sugars into your wort so you may need to increase the amount of grain unless you're using loads of sugar.

 

[IslandLizard]

< ugh > Just read the title. No sparge... That is not a good method as you can see. The higher the gravity, the lousier your efficiency. Wasting a lot of good sugar that's left behind in the grain. Anyway here are some pointers.

Did you drain your mash tun before adding the sparge water? Was it drained all the way each time? That's important for efficiency.

Also, splitting the sparge into 2 equal volumes and sparging twice, draining the tun completely each time, helps a lot to "rinse" the grains more thoroughly. The grain in the bottom should be damp, not dripping wet after draining.

BTW, 200°F is way too hot for sparging though. The whole mash shouldn't rise above 168°F when sparging.

How's the grain crush? That's typically where you get most of your efficiency from. LHBS mills tend to be set too coarse.

When mashing in you need to stir like a maniac. Break up any dough balls and dry spots. 1.25 is a bit dry, but doable. I prefer 1.33-1.5. Then when sparging you need to stir well again, let it sit for a few minutes and drain.

Hope this helps to put you on track.

 

[Shaffer1515]

Just did the Belgian Triple Kit from Northern Brewer. I used 4 gal to mash with @151 for 60 min, then added 5 gal more of 200 degree water which brought the full mash tuns temp up to the 170 mark suggested in the directions. Didnt drain any (thus no sparge). I was wondering if its suggested anywhere if there is a certain gravity limit to doing no sparge? I have the same kit (Northern Brewer screwed up to my advantage) and I think I am going to try to sparge it this next time to see if that is where I am losing my sugars. Grain crush is pretty good, not super fine, but its never failed me before.

 

[Shaffer1515]

What recipe did you use and and how much beer did you end up with in the end? I can see how it compares to beers I've made and see if I can offer any help.

I tend to mash in similar to you, then fill up with just enough boiling water to mash out and then do a small fly sparge to rinse off the remaining grain and this works well. I tend to need about 40L of water to do this which seems similar to what you've used.

I wonder if you're adding too much water in the second addition and you could maybe sparge with some of that once you've reached 75C or maybe you could just drain the tun after the first addition and add the second lot as a batch sparge.

It's easy to make a simple sparge arm for a chest cooler using a plank of wood and a length of copper piping with holes drilled to spread the water. I've done this and it works really well.

If you don't sparge I imagine you'll get less of the sugars into your wort so you may need to increase the amount of grain unless you're using loads of sugar.

Here is the link to their PDF

http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/allgrain/AG-BelgianTripel.pdf

 

[chickypad]

Usually no sparge means mashing with all the mash and sparge water at once, it's a very thin mash. Many BIAB'ers get pretty good efficiency that way, but maybe due to the tighter crush that they can use. I've never heard of doing it your way - if I understand you did a normal mash ratio then a huge mashout without a traditional sparge (that 5 gal would not be "strike water" as the mash was already completed, it would be a mashout). If batch sparging you shouldn't need a mashout, I think you'll get better efficiency draining first then using the second 5 gal separately for the sparge. If you don't want to sparge then I would do the whole volume in the mash and just drain. As Lizard said you may lose efficiency especially with higher gravities.

 

[Shaffer1515]

Usually no sparge means mashing with all the mash and sparge water at once, it's a very thin mash. Many BIAB'ers get pretty good efficiency that way, but maybe due to the tighter crush that they can use. I've never heard of doing it your way - if I understand you did a normal mash ratio then a huge mashout without a traditional sparge (that 5 gal would not be "strike water" as the mash was already completed, it would be a mashout). If batch sparging you shouldn't need a mashout, I think you'll get better efficiency draining first then using the second 5 gal separately for the sparge. If you don't want to sparge then I would do the whole volume in the mash and just drain. As Lizard said you may lose efficiency especially with higher gravities.

I havent been very successful with getting the gravity I need when doing a complete no sparge, adding all the liquid at the beginning. I think I need to sparge as you said and maybe break that 5 gal into (2) 2.5 sparges. Still trying to work out the kinks as this system is still new and different than my previous igloo cooler with false bottom.

 

[IslandLizard]

Makes me wonder... since batch sparging is so quick, easy, and efficient why even attempt doing a No-Sparge? In many ways it beats fly sparging and not only in time. Just use a calculator for your volumes (e.g., BS, 365, Brewer's Friend).

Many BIAB brewers do a squeeze followed by a small volume sparge, either dunk or pour over and another squeeze, to eek out a few more points.

 

[youreanimpulse]

I do BIAB with no sparge (full volume) and batch sparge techniques with a consistent 85% brew house eff. I have troubleshot my lower efficiency in the past and this is what fixed it:
- Fine crush. Try crushing once at a normal gap, then recrushing at a finer gap. This keeps more husks intact.
-Stir like a mother. I dough in slowly stirring like crazy then stir some more before putting the lid on. Then I stir at least twice for a few mins during the mash and at the end before pulling the bag. When sparging I do the same: dunk the bag in the bucket of water, open it up and stir vigorously for at least 5 mins. Squeezing as much liquid out of the bag after each step. I always sparge above about 1.060 OG. This allowed my 1.092 beer two days ago to have the same efficiency as my 1.042 no sparge beer a couple weeks ago.

I have been able to do this in my cooler without a bag as well, always with a sparge. I haven't seen a difference between hot and cold sparging.

Other potential factors to my consistent efficiency: 5.4 mash ph. Always. I use lactic acid to fine tune (haven't had it too low yet). Higher than normal water:grain ratio, usually around 1.75qt/gal.

Hope some of that can be helpful, and good luck!

 

[Shaffer1515]

It's easy to make a simple sparge arm for a chest cooler using a plank of wood and a length of copper piping with holes drilled to spread the water. I've done this and it works really well.

Any pictures of this? or where I can look on the forum?

 

[serum]

OK it's as I suspected. I had a look at other guides for no sparge brewing and they advised to up the grain bill by 20-25% when brewing like this on account of the reduced efficiency. This is probably what's gone wrong.

Here's a shot of the sparge arm, which I copied from another brewer. It's very basic, just a copper pipe with a stopper at one end and a 90 degree elbow on the other with a hose barb attached to it. This is attached to a bit of wood with a hole drilled so the barb can poke through and attach to the boiler. There are holes to allow the water to jet out at different angles:

It's simple and you can probably make something a lot better but it works for me.