First Lager Brew yeast question...

[zephed666]

Hello! I am attempting my first lager brew, have done many ales, and have a question about the yeast...
Normaly I use liquid yeast with a starter...
Planning on brewing a lager (5 Gal) with an OG of 1.045.
the yeast calculator is saying I need at least 3 liquid yeast packs (mfg date is 9/22/22) with a 3L starter (shaking - no stir palte)

Just want to confirm that lagers need a lot more yeast...
I may be over thinking this...

 

[Airborneguy]

That sounds like a hell of a lot for a relatively average OG beer.

I use one pack with a 2000ml starter going for 48 hours before pitching.

 

[zephed666]

That sounds like a hell of a lot for a relatively average OG beer.

I use one pack with a 2000ml starter going for 48 hours before pitching.

just going by the yeast calculator...
calculator says it needs at least 318B cells for the 1.045OG
.

 

[VikeMan]

Lagers don't "need" a lot more yeast than ales. But they will be much better that way. The yeast calculators are not lying to you. 1.5B cells per ml per degree plato is typical for lagers.

 

[dmtaylor]

One or two packs should be enough. Three is overkill. I use yeast calculators, but I always round down a little bit, as they overdo it and it gets very expensive to follow them to the T.

Or, just use one pack of Diamond or S-189, don't worry at all about date of manufacture or expiration, and never make a yeast starter ever again.

 

[jdauria]

Since the yeast is three months old, it's using that particular calculator's age factor, however, they don't always tend to be correct. For example, White Labs says their Pure Pitch packs last longer than yeast calculators think, in "ideal" conditions they say their yeast is still around 90.26% viable vs the 50% or under that a yeast calculator will say. So if you are using White Labs, could probably get away with just 2 packs.

 

[Deadalus]

I'm a bit skeptical about what some of these calculators spit out. Why would 3 yeast packs be needed for a 3 liter starter? Is it because you don't have a stir plate? You could make two 2 liter starters with just 2 packs of yeast if you felt the need. I just brewed a Munich Helles, OG. 1.048 using one pack of yeast in a 2l starter, took off just fine. Cooled it overnight, pitched the yeast the next morning, visible activity in the evening. It dropped 17 points in four days had a lovely krausen for quite a while actually.

 

[TheCache]

Are you sure its not saying 3packs or a 3L starter (from one pack). I use Beersmith and the starter tab shows both the number of packs and/or the size of the starter.

3L sounds about right based on what my calculator says. I have been doing 2.5G batches and my lager starters are usually 1.5-1.75L depending on the gravity.

 

[zephed666]

Calculations are all correct and no stir plate for me...
I am making a two step yeast starter so I only need the one pack...

 

[jdauria]

Calculations are all correct and no stir plate for me...
I am making a two step yeast starter so I only need the one pack...

Without a stir plate, you could always try the Shaken not Stirred yeast starter method. You need a container at least 4x the volume you are making...so for a 1 liter starter, a 4 liter flask or one gallon jug. You make and cool the starter wort (I used cans of Propper) and then you shake it like it owes you money until the container is mostly full of foam. Add the yeast, give it a swirl to mix, then let it sit for at least 12 hours...or until high krausen...then pitch the whole thing. For lagers, it's recommended to do two 1 liter starters.

I stopped using my stir plate about 10 brews ago and have not looked back. The SnS method really works well, the starter wort actually smells like beer vs sometimes with a stir plate, the wort smells off. And with this method, you are providing a decent amount of oxygen and can get away without adding O2 to the beer when pitching, a benefit where it's become hard to find the little red oxygen tanks many of us use.

Denny Conn is a big proponent of this method and here's some info from his show about the method. Shaken, not Stirred: The Stir Plate Myth Buster | Experimental Homebrewing