Fellowship of the Drink XII: The Bad News Beers

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Paging @Thorrak
Should I get my passport out and get ready to flee?
Package has been dropped off.
The box arrived (mostly) intact. One of the cans exploded in transit, but aside from some soggy newsprint everything made it through OK.

Picture will be incoming as soon as I get my living room clean enough to not be embarrassed by one. Too much stuff in a tiny apartment. ;)
 
@Thorrak Take pic of that separately...that's the third one now that's exploded. Two last night in the garage.
IMG_20180613_091327.jpg
 
It definitely looks like it burst at the seam. Given that this is a kettle sour I’m slightly surprised — I would have expected any of the fun bugs to have perished in the boil. That said, having never even thought about brewing a sour, I’m probably missing something in that characterization of kettle sours!

3E2F13DB-9A1E-4A06-8C33-5E0ED5AA0450.jpeg
 
Is it sad that I’m watching the tracking for my outgoing shipment more eagerly than I watched the incoming one?

@jerbrew it’s out for delivery [emoji403]

Landed yesterday. Funny, the UPS guy was in front of my parking spot so I honked at him. He moved and followed me to my house and gave me a package.
 
I just fired off an email to ASB to see what they'll give me for my two exploded cans and the fourth unopened can. I might put that one in a bucket for now just so that I don't have to add to the clean-up.
 
Landed yesterday. Funny, the UPS guy was in front of my parking spot so I honked at him. He moved and followed me to my house and gave me a package.

Glad to hear that it made it! Everything survive the voyage? I have another glass of that one broke
 
Just got off the phone with Doug. Someone used my information to create an account and bill it to a three party shipping out of Pembroke Pines, FL. So, Doug is just trying to sort out who created the account.

I’m sorry, I really didn’t mean to. Shipping to @afro_lou costs a fortune!

IMG_0788.jpg
 
And for reference, here is what ASB had to say about their exploding cans.
Thanks for reaching out.

The problem is very simple: there's a TON (literally, over a metric ton in this batch) of fruit that went into this batch and if cans are not stored cold, they will referment in the can and cause the situation you are experiencing. There are no bugs, we can assure you of that. After Prickly Pear was released, we put on subsequent kettle sour cans, clear as daylight "Warning: Contains Lots of Fruit! Must Be Kept Cold At All Times" (refer to Tayberry cans, which I see are also stored in your garage).

Fine to replace your cans, send me an address and we'll mail you a 4-pack.

But I will say, I'm a bit concerned about seeing other fruited sours in your garage, and you even have some Slice Joint being stored warm as well. These beers are designed for relatively quick consumption (within a month) so that they can be enjoyed at peak freshness. They deserve to be stored cold, as well. Aroma / Flavor / Overall Quality will degrade at warm temperatures, especially when stored out for several months. The YoE beers are fine to cellar, and will actually improve with age and gain complexity over time. But not Alvarado Street beers. This is why we come out with new cans each week, so they are consumed fresh.

Hit us back with an address, and thanks for understanding where we're coming from.


It never dawned on me that they didn't fully ferment out their fruit, and therefore any can deformities will likely result in explosions due to the continued fermenting.

This makes sense though (re: fermenting fruit) because their kettle sours are very much fruit forward brews, and now I know. I wonder, then, how they manage to get certain levels of carbonation? I assume they're not canning while fermenting on the fruit, but their response leads me to believe otherwise. Maybe they maintain an extremely low temperature while adding in the fruit and force carb in the cans? That would prevent the fruit from fermenting, but pull in all the flavors?
 
And for reference, here is what ASB had to say about their exploding cans.
Thanks for reaching out.

The problem is very simple: there's a TON (literally, over a metric ton in this batch) of fruit that went into this batch and if cans are not stored cold, they will referment in the can and cause the situation you are experiencing. There are no bugs, we can assure you of that. After Prickly Pear was released, we put on subsequent kettle sour cans, clear as daylight "Warning: Contains Lots of Fruit! Must Be Kept Cold At All Times" (refer to Tayberry cans, which I see are also stored in your garage).

Fine to replace your cans, send me an address and we'll mail you a 4-pack.

But I will say, I'm a bit concerned about seeing other fruited sours in your garage, and you even have some Slice Joint being stored warm as well. These beers are designed for relatively quick consumption (within a month) so that they can be enjoyed at peak freshness. They deserve to be stored cold, as well. Aroma / Flavor / Overall Quality will degrade at warm temperatures, especially when stored out for several months. The YoE beers are fine to cellar, and will actually improve with age and gain complexity over time. But not Alvarado Street beers. This is why we come out with new cans each week, so they are consumed fresh.

Hit us back with an address, and thanks for understanding where we're coming from.


It never dawned on me that they didn't fully ferment out their fruit, and therefore any can deformities will likely result in explosions due to the continued fermenting.

This makes sense though (re: fermenting fruit) because their kettle sours are very much fruit forward brews, and now I know. I wonder, then, how they manage to get certain levels of carbonation? I assume they're not canning while fermenting on the fruit, but their response leads me to believe otherwise. Maybe they maintain an extremely low temperature while adding in the fruit and force carb in the cans? That would prevent the fruit from fermenting, but pull in all the flavors?
Going to borrow your pic. Son can photo shop my place. Free beer! Woot Woot!
 
Gahhhh, I go to grab the last can to put it in the fridge to enjoy before it explodes, and ... well ... it already exploded. Damn it!

Booo.

That’s some BS if you ask me. Seems like they need to refine their process a little to stop fermentation before canning a beer. It also seems like a liability. And definitely no way to control the amount of carbonation in their product. Seems like it’s a cover up. Call Doug in.
 
Dang! Those were pretty consistent then! Even sugars all throughout. They must add all the fruit (extracts, I assume) post-primary fermentation, maybe even post-carb’ing? Adding under pressure even, maybe?
 
And for reference, here is what ASB had to say about their exploding cans.
Thanks for reaching out.

The problem is very simple: there's a TON (literally, over a metric ton in this batch) of fruit that went into this batch and if cans are not stored cold, they will referment in the can and cause the situation you are experiencing. There are no bugs, we can assure you of that. After Prickly Pear was released, we put on subsequent kettle sour cans, clear as daylight "Warning: Contains Lots of Fruit! Must Be Kept Cold At All Times" (refer to Tayberry cans, which I see are also stored in your garage).

Fine to replace your cans, send me an address and we'll mail you a 4-pack.

But I will say, I'm a bit concerned about seeing other fruited sours in your garage, and you even have some Slice Joint being stored warm as well. These beers are designed for relatively quick consumption (within a month) so that they can be enjoyed at peak freshness. They deserve to be stored cold, as well. Aroma / Flavor / Overall Quality will degrade at warm temperatures, especially when stored out for several months. The YoE beers are fine to cellar, and will actually improve with age and gain complexity over time. But not Alvarado Street beers. This is why we come out with new cans each week, so they are consumed fresh.

Hit us back with an address, and thanks for understanding where we're coming from.


It never dawned on me that they didn't fully ferment out their fruit, and therefore any can deformities will likely result in explosions due to the continued fermenting.

This makes sense though (re: fermenting fruit) because their kettle sours are very much fruit forward brews, and now I know. I wonder, then, how they manage to get certain levels of carbonation? I assume they're not canning while fermenting on the fruit, but their response leads me to believe otherwise. Maybe they maintain an extremely low temperature while adding in the fruit and force carb in the cans? That would prevent the fruit from fermenting, but pull in all the flavors?

I've wondered about you storing beer in the garage! Doesn't it get hot AF in there being in Cali? (No idea where you really are :) )
 
That’s disappointing. Most breweries making non-oak aged sours usually add in fruit to the stainless tank during or after primary fermentation slows. Some even recirc through a hop back to speed up the extraction process. Seems like a QC procedural issue to me. I would think you’d package after consistent gravity readings & then force ferment a sample section of cans by raising the temp/agitating to ensure they wouldn’t have any explosion issues before releasing it to the public.

To say that their beers are supposed to be consumed fresh as reasoning for cans exploding is a cop out to me. Hopefully, this alerts them to the potential issue & they make an adjustment to their process. Their supply can’t keep up with the demand, so maybe this is a result of trying to cut corners to get more product out.

Having said that, my wallet will continue to be crushed with all those amazing hazy IPAs they are making!
 
Me
It never occured to me that the fruit had not been completely fermented out. Good to know, and now I'll move all the cans into the beer fridge to avoid any future woes. It hadn't happened over the last 3ish years, so it honestly didn't even cross my mind as an issue.

Them
Cool, thanks for understanding. Fine to come in today and pickup some Haole, that will save time and money!

The reason for refermentation lately with fruit is that our fruiting rates have significantly increased over the past 6 months. We're desiring more fruit character and just added ungodly amounts. We wait to package until gravities are stable, but generally over time, if left out warm, there can be additional fermentation.

I'll make sure the bartenders know your coming by for Haole
 
I’m running low on Ethiopia Yirgacheffe Dumerso. Down to 8 lbs or so. It’s getting around the group though!

Yeah it is and it’s good stuff! How much did you buy? The most of any bean I’ve bought was 5 lbs and that was in my last order. I did two 5lbs and two 2lbs of different beans and thought this will last me a hell of a long time.
 
And for reference, here is what ASB had to say about their exploding cans.
Thanks for reaching out.

The problem is very simple: there's a TON (literally, over a metric ton in this batch) of fruit that went into this batch and if cans are not stored cold, they will referment in the can and cause the situation you are experiencing. There are no bugs, we can assure you of that. After Prickly Pear was released, we put on subsequent kettle sour cans, clear as daylight "Warning: Contains Lots of Fruit! Must Be Kept Cold At All Times" (refer to Tayberry cans, which I see are also stored in your garage).

Fine to replace your cans, send me an address and we'll mail you a 4-pack.

But I will say, I'm a bit concerned about seeing other fruited sours in your garage, and you even have some Slice Joint being stored warm as well. These beers are designed for relatively quick consumption (within a month) so that they can be enjoyed at peak freshness. They deserve to be stored cold, as well. Aroma / Flavor / Overall Quality will degrade at warm temperatures, especially when stored out for several months. The YoE beers are fine to cellar, and will actually improve with age and gain complexity over time. But not Alvarado Street beers. This is why we come out with new cans each week, so they are consumed fresh.

Hit us back with an address, and thanks for understanding where we're coming from.


It never dawned on me that they didn't fully ferment out their fruit, and therefore any can deformities will likely result in explosions due to the continued fermenting.

This makes sense though (re: fermenting fruit) because their kettle sours are very much fruit forward brews, and now I know. I wonder, then, how they manage to get certain levels of carbonation? I assume they're not canning while fermenting on the fruit, but their response leads me to believe otherwise. Maybe they maintain an extremely low temperature while adding in the fruit and force carb in the cans? That would prevent the fruit from fermenting, but pull in all the flavors?
That makes sense, unless they kill the yeasties post ferm chemically. I've heard lots of issues like that with the veil and the answer
 
That makes sense, unless they kill the yeasties post ferm chemically. I've heard lots of issues like that with the veil and the answer

It honestly never crossed my mine, once. I've never had anything else explode before, so this was a bit of a shocker. They've also ONLY just started adding the warning labels after this can release which makes me question whether or not they made a mistake. None of their other sours have exhibited the same issues, and I've been sitting on those ones just as long. Hell, I had been sitting on an really old Tayberry without any problem.

I think they just fudged up...
 
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