Feedback on an idea: "Christmas Fruitcake Stout"

[Hellosluggo]

I was reading a review of a commercial Imperial Stout, and the author made several references to notes of raisins, dates, prunes and dried figs... This got me to thinking about doing a "Christmas Fruitcake Stout" using those exact additions. My thought is that the dates and figs would possibly help out on ABV, and all the additions would come together in the body. And since this has come to mind smack in the middle of Summer, I can take advantage of the time between now and the holidays to let it sit for a good long time to become dark and menacing.

Since I'm pretty new, this would probably be built on an Imperial Stout extract & steeping recipe. I wanted to toss this out there and get opinions of how and when to add, and any other tweaks someone might think of. I'm interested in getting it to be pretty big in the end, so any and all suggestions would be appreciated—basically, if y'all were going to try this, what would you do?

 

[Double_D]

Generally, those notes the author referenced come from fermentation and the use of character malt. I'd definitely look at using some crystal 120 and 1084 from wyeast. Both are staples of my dark beers.

 

[Hellosluggo]

No, I know exactly what he was referring to—it just made me think of using those ingredients specifically as additives.

I wonder if the sugar content of the dates and figs would contribute much in terms of fermenting. Would this require an addition during the boil, or afterwards during fermentation?

 

[Double_D]

Dates and figs have a ton of sugar in them. As for when to add them, it depends on whether or not you want the sugar content only or if you'd like to try to save some of the flavor. I'd put them in the secondary. And maybe you could find some dry cherries too. That would be amazing!

 

[kingwood-kid]

Most dried fruit has potassium sorbate added. Not good for your yeast. So you'd have to find organic, either at Whole Foods or Central Market. 8oz of Special B would be much cheaper and would give you a lot of what you're looking for, but you sound like you're committed to real fruit. The sugar in the fruits will raise the alcohol content, but thin out the body. WY1762 (aka WL540) would be another fine choice for yeast.

 

[Hellosluggo]

I think at this point it's not so much being committed to real fruit as it is being inexperienced in the use of different grains to achieve the same or similar effect.

But the suggestion is certainly valid and got me reading up on AHS website about the ingredients of their Imperial Stout recipe <http://goo.gl/E7GBe>. Would it be a matter of swapping out some of the Black Patent for some Special B? It seems like the Black Patent is used mainly for color or cutting the strong flavors of some other specialty grains. By all means, correct me if I'm wrong&#8212;I'm admittedly walking off into territory I've not ventured into before and could well be thinking/talking outta my ass!

 

[Double_D]

I'd keep the Special B. Especially in the case of swapping it out for black patent. You could sub crystal 120 for the Special if you wanted to. Black patent is usually used in porters*(Ray Daniels/ Designing Great Beers) where roasted barley is generally used in stouts. But as far as balancing or cutting the flavors of the other character malts that is the hop's job. Color yes but it also gives a different kind of dryness and astringency than roasted barley.

+1 on most fruit having potassium sorbate. Definitely try to find organic.

 

[kingwood-kid]

I'd brew this (or something close):
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f68/russian-imperial-stout-2011-hbt-competition-category-winner-238807/

You can sub:
11lbs light LME for the 2-row and carapils. Normal procedure is to boil extract for 15-20 minutes, but for this beer, I'd boil it for the whole 60 to get a richer depth of flavors.
2oz nugget at 60min for all the hops
Either yeast we suggested (or check Wyeast & White Labs sites for one that sounds good) for WL002, which has the reputation of being hard to work with, especially when bottling

Check it after a couple months and see if you want to add fruit.

 

[Hellosluggo]

Shifting gears a bit, but on the same idea... How about swapping something out of this recipe for the Special B? Or adding Special B? And maybe dropping or removing much of the chocolate addition? This seems like a pretty straightforward recipe that could be tweaked a bit. Thoughts?

(I removed Chip's Eis Stout references for clarity...)


Odd Winter Chocolate Stout

Recipe and notes for the beer seen brewed by Chip Walton in Brewing TV - Episode 60: Eis is Nice.
youtu.be/8_qU5UwPNxk

OG: 1.055
FG: 1.020
IBU: 37
SRM: 34
Fermentables:
6.0 lb Dark Liquid Malt Extract
1.0 lb Light Dry Malt Extract

Steeping Grains:
1.0 lb Chocolate Rye Malt
0.3 lb Debittered Belgian Chocolate
0.15 lb Chocolate Wheat Malt
0.15 lb Roasted Barley

Other:
5.0 oz Baker's Unsweetened Chocolate, microwaved for 90 seconds, mixed with pre-boil wort....

Hops:
1.5 oz Fuggle (homegrown, whole leaf) - First Wort Hop
1.0 oz Northern Brewer pellets (9.0%aa) - 60 min
1.5 oz Fuggle (homegrown, whole leaf) - 10 min

Yeast:
Wyeast 2112 - California Lager x 2

The Process:
Steep grains in 2.5 gallons of 152F water for 30 min.
Also place muslin bag with First Wort Hops in during this steeping time.
After 30 minutes of steeping, remove grain bag and rince with 1/2 gallon of 170F water.
Discard grains. Remove First Wort Hop bag and set aside.
Add heat and bring liquid towards a boil.
Near-boil, kill heat and add LME, DME and unsweetened chocolate. For chocolate you can put the solid one-ounce bricks into the boil and stir to dissolve. OR you can do like Chip did in the Episode 60... and microwave the chocolate bricks for 90 seconds to melt, add a bit of the hot wort into the boil to make a chocolate mixture then add that to the wort.
Return to heat, put the FWH bag back into the kettle and bring to a boil.
Boil time of 60 minutes.
Put in 60 minute hops.
10 minutes left in boil add 10 minutes hops.
Cool wort to pitching temperature, Chip fermented around 58-62F.

After primary fermentation, rack to secondary fermenter for one week.
After secondary fermentation, it's time to rack into keg/bottles...
Start by making an appropriate priming sugar solution - about 1 oz. corn sugar for one gallon of beer - and let it cool (before adding to bucket)
Rack beer to keg/bottles...
Let bottles sit at room temperature for approximately one month. They should carbonated just like regular beer, but may require a few more weeks than typical brews.

 

[kingwood-kid]

Most of the dried fruit notes you want come from dark caramel malts or dark candy sugars, so your idea of switching the chocolate and chocolate malt for special b is the right one.

 

[Hellosluggo]

So, should I swap both the 1.0 lb Chocolate Rye Malt and 0.15 lb Chocolate Wheat Malt for the same volume of Special B? Or should I keep some of one or the other in addition to Special B?

Also... I don't really know what the reference to 0.3 lb Debittered Belgian Chocolate is... Is this a second chocolate addition, or a different type of grain? Yes, it's listed under Steeping Grains, but I'm not finding a match on my LHBS's website. (Sorry, noob affliction...)

Oh, and one more thing... When is the use of gypsum recommended in a stout?

 

[usfmikeb]

You're going to want to keep some of that rye in there, it's a great flavor in that kind of beer. I've never seen debittered belgian chocolate grain, just debittered black grains.

BTW, Mosher has a fruitcake ale in Radical Brewing that's pretty good. It uses Special B, as well as rehydrated dried fruits in the secondary.

 

[kingwood-kid]

Debittered belgian chocolate is a type of malted barley. It will provide a lot more color than flavor. I've never seen any grain under that name at any brewing store, but most sell Debittered Black or Carafa, which are basically the same thing.

Gypsum is used to accentuate hops and bitterness. You won't need it in a stout, especially this one.

You'll definitely need Special B. Whether or not you keep the Chocolate malts and/or actual chocolate depends on how much of a chocolate flavor you want in your beer.

 

[Hellosluggo]

Just returned from the LHBS with everything for this recipe. After talking to the guy there, we decided to go balls out and not swap anything for the Special B, but to just add it to the other four grains. Gonna be packed fulla peanuts, I'm sayin'.

He wasn't exactly sure what the debittered Belgian chocolate was about, but he said it was possibly Debittered Black, so we went with that.

Gypsum... Weird... My LHBS's website says, "Gypsum (calcium sulphate) is used to harden water. It will decrease the pH level, making the water more acidic. It is used mainly in stouts." Meh... I didn't get it anyhow, so no biggie.

Also picked up stuff at Radio Shack to build my stir plate. Wøøt!

 

[Hellosluggo]

Okay, getting set up... Just waiting for my wife to return from the store with the distilled water.

 

[Hellosluggo]

So the recipe on this one predicted 1.055 OG, but I added an extra ~300g of DME I had to the 1lb required, plus it already called for 6 lbs of dark LME, so I seemed to have sweetened it up to around 1.064 or thereabouts.

More beer porn attached...

 

[Hellosluggo]

Hmm... ~10 hours in after pitching, and this is all I'm seeing... Having a bit of a "is my beer ruined?" moment. This is the first time I've used a yeast starter, so I was expecting to wake up to crazy activity this morning.

 

[Hellosluggo]

I gots schooled on another thread that lager yeasts take longer to ferment and RDWHAHB...

Here's pics of ~36 hours and ~80 hours in. Swamp-cooled temps holding around 66&#8211;68&#729;. Looks tasty to me.

 

[Nohup]

That looks oh, so, good. Can't wait for a report on how it tastes.

With the pumpkin ale season coming up, I was thinking about the way the pumpkin-pie spices make a pumpkin ale taste so much like a pumpkin pie.
Got me thinking about trying to add some "fruitcake" spices (ginger, cinnamon, nutmeg, whatever) to a recipe like yours, to see if that could bring out some of the fruitcake flavor.
Also, in the past, I've soaked dried fruits and zests in rum, to get the flavors out, then added that to a secondary. It does add a bit of flavor, without the mess of adding real fruit.

 

[Hellosluggo]

5.5 days in, krausen is thinning out now...

 

[Hellosluggo]

I think I'm pretty much bottomed out! The recipe (can't help thinking of the Baldwin Sisters from The Waltons every time I utter that phrase) called for 1.020 FG, so I'm gonna take another reading toward the end of the weeks and see if we're holding steady.

OG was 1.065, so I'm gonna just round it off at 6% ABV for the sake of argument.

The sample tasted GOT-DANG INCREDIBLE&#8212;so much so that I drank most of it. And that's not just wishful thinking... It's that good. After bottling I'm gonna take the long road and let it rest until November. I think I'm gonna have a good one on my hands!

 

[Hellosluggo]

After 26 days in primary, I'm gonna transfer to secondary this weekend just to clear things up a bit. I'll bottle in a couple of weeks, then the long wait 'til November or so, with a couple of bottles cracked along the way.

 

[jrodskreet]

So what was the final recipe?
Did you decide on any fruits? Figs? Dates? Cherries?

 

[Hellosluggo]

No, I just went with the recipe up there in the thread and added Special B plus an extra 300g DME.

Racked to secondary earlier today, did a hydrometer reading which was level at 1.020. Poured the remaining sample in a glass and put it in the freezer for about 15 minutes, then drank it up. It's pretty incredible as it is right now, even without carbonation and bottle conditioning.

 

[Hellosluggo]

Finally forced myself to take some time to bottle! It doesn't look like much, but it was a five gallon batch on the nose, and I used 22 oz bottles. All packed away and not to be seen again until at least mid-November. The unboxed oddballs will be testers after at least a month of bottle conditioning.

 

[Antler]

I'm excited to see how this turns out. I was thinkin about using a stout recipe, lager yeast for a batch. Secondary in 1 gallon jugs to put different amounts of candy cane, cranberries, chocolate, maybe even cinnamon to see how each turns out.

 

[Hellosluggo]

First test pouring tonight after 2.5 weeks in the bottle!

 

[Antler]

First test pouring tonight after 2.5 weeks in the bottle!

Well how did it turn out?

 

[lumpher]

Christmas Fruitcake Stout - the beer every1 passes around every christmas until every1 has seen it twice... or is that the cake? good luck on this