First I’m not sure what you would call the above ferments. There are no water additions (or yeast nutrients added). Honey makes up 25-33% of the fermentable sugars. Pyment, cyser, melomel, pineapple champagne, apple champagne?
I'm comfortable with the term "country wine". I'm also OK with simply the term "wine", which I feel encompasses anything that's not "beer" or "vinegar". Not sure others would agree, but that's a debate for another thread.
Check pH, TA, HPLC of both?
Both pH and TA are easily measurable without HPLC.
Thanks for the explanation! Looking forward to more results and measurements.
Cheers!
I am just curious if you are doing/have done the same and could provide any insight into how well these evolve. Do you experience increased complexity as brett metabolizes more in these AMG-enzyme added beers?
First, I don't have a lot of experience with this process. You guys are helping to pioneer it.
I was inspired by the [limited] info on the MTF wiki about mixed fermentation in under 3 months. I added some tweaks to enhance the process: enzymes to ensure rapid FG and allow greater flexibility, and post-souring to maximize yeast flavor.
That said, my experience has been very positive. I get reasonably strong and delicious Brett flavor within the first couple days. My experience has also shown that the culture will indeed continue to evolve in the bottle. I've added large variety of mixed Brett cultures at bottling to both batches I've made with this method.
One batch I made was very acidic because I didn't add any hops... This beer had less Brett development. Development also depends on the culture; Jolly Pumpkin for example greatly developed even in this very acidic beer (barnyard bomb) whereas all the other cultures had little development.
Brett definitely does
not need sugars in order to modify flavor, so the enzyme doesn't inhibit anything.
day 12 to package (after some oak chips
How did the oak chips fare for you? That's not actually something I've tried.
Any beers gone south over time?
Not really. Unfortunately my first batch had a THP issue after bottling, but that eventually aged out. It was better before it oxidized though.
I tend to prefer younger beers, because I like the fruity Brett profile; that's one reason I like this method. However, none of the cultures I've used so far developed any kind of off-flavors over time.
Are you able to compare their characteristics to more traditionally-fermented mixed ferm beers?
It's hard to compare. Every beer is different.
The modern process allows the beer to be consumed very young, before oxidation, so the flavors will be more fresh in general. Malt flavor and hop flavor are so much more vibrant and clear. This goes one step further with low oxygen brewing, but I've been struggling with consistency in that regard and haven't yet attempted a low-oxygen fast funky sour. If you prefer the sherry-like oxidation and meaty-umami flavor resulting from autolysis, then you're probably better off with a traditional process. I'm not sure how to replicate those flavors in a short timeframe.
I intend to see whether I can develop a "modern" blending program -- modern in a sense that it will be fast, consistent, and goal-oriented, but COVID has kind of put a damper on things.
It seems as though very few are doing this technique so I feel like there is something that I am missing.
Very true that no one else is using this method. On MTF I asked what kind of cultures people were using for quick funky fermentations and surprisingly I got zero response. We're on our own I guess.
Looking at your process, the thing I would suggest is propagating the Brett separately. It won't be able to achieve a high cell count in a propagation with Saccharomyces. An active Brett culture with a high cell count seems to be the key to increasing rapid Brett flavor development. I suggest liberal use of a good nutrient in the starter.
Final note: Personal preference comes into play, as always. MTF wiki suggested the Lochristi blend (from TYB) as a good culture for rapid Brett flavor ... I absolutely hated it (co-pitched with WLP644). Subtle strawberry at first, but an unpleasant/astringent "overripeness" phenolic funk quickly took over the profile.
Hope this rambling helps.