extract to sugar ratios?

[1990dtgl98]

Quick question before I brew my 5th and most anticipated brew! :rockin:

I plan on doing a 3 gal batch of a double IPA, mainly to keep cost down, and becuase I want to make sure its good before doing a 6 gal batch.

Is there a common rule on ratio for extract vs sugars (honey/table/brown/etc)? I ask because I want to get a high OG, but also want it to be pretty dry (think Hopslam or similiar) and get down to 1.012ish. I read the best way to do that was to use sugars that are fully fermentable since extracts aren't and will lend some residual sweetness.

But, is there a ratio that you shouldn't cross where the beer wont be malty but rather have an acidic burn? I was originally going to do 5lbs of dry extract and 2lbs of honey, but now I'm not sure. Is that too much honey to extract? If I do 6lbs of DME and 1lb honey, is that going to keep my FG too high using WLP001 yeast?

Just clarifying before I dive in!

P.S.- If I do a 3 gal batch, is it ok to ferment in an ale pail, since I'll have a pretty large headspace?

 

[Bob]

Generally, it's a good idea to keep simple sugars down to 20% or less of the total "grist". Honey, however, can go higher. Braggot is usually half honey and half malt, for example.

Now, keep in mind that just because you want to make a hops delivery vehicle doesn't mean you don't want to seek balance. You need a certain amount of malt backbone for your alpha acids to play off, or you risk brewing paint thinner. The best IPAs, in my opinion, have a significant amount of malt. Not chewy or even noticeable, but enough to provide a certain amount of balance.

Calculating your probable FG will depend on the average attenuation percentage of the yeast strain you select. For example, the attenuation range of WLP001 is 73-80%. Most home breweries won't attenuate at the upper range unless a significant amount of simple sugar is used (which I don't recommend in IPA or IIPA). You can expect 75% attenuation. Thus, if your OG is 1080, the yeast will attenuate to 25% of the OG, or 1020. Don't get too hung up on the FG as a measure of residual body or mouthfeel, especially in a beer like IIPA; there's such a surfeit of hops bitterness in there that 1020 will feel like 1010.

I hope that makes sense. You're getting into a very complicated area here.

Cheers!

Bob

 

[1990dtgl98]

Generally, it's a good idea to keep simple sugars down to 20% or less of the total "grist". Honey, however, can go higher. Braggot is usually half honey and half malt, for example.

Now, keep in mind that just because you want to make a hops delivery vehicle doesn't mean you don't want to seek balance. You need a certain amount of malt backbone for your alpha acids to play off, or you risk brewing paint thinner. The best IPAs, in my opinion, have a significant amount of malt. Not chewy or even noticeable, but enough to provide a certain amount of balance.

Calculating your probable FG will depend on the average attenuation percentage of the yeast strain you select. For example, the attenuation range of WLP001 is 73-80%. Most home breweries won't attenuate at the upper range unless a significant amount of simple sugar is used (which I don't recommend in IPA or IIPA). You can expect 75% attenuation. Thus, if your OG is 1080, the yeast will attenuate to 25% of the OG, or 1020. Don't get too hung up on the FG as a measure of residual body or mouthfeel, especially in a beer like IIPA; there's such a surfeit of hops bitterness in there that 1020 will feel like 1010.

I hope that makes sense. You're getting into a very complicated area here.

Gotcha.

Well what I was reading was more that yeast attenuation is based on malts. I also read that if you'd use WLP001 on just corn sugar (and nothing else), that you might actually see a much higher attenuation since its almost all completely fermentable as opposed to extract which has more unfermentable sugars. With something with more sugar or honey or something highly fermentable, that 70-80% attenuation might actually be 90%. Maybe I just read that wrong.

So would a 5lbs DME/ 2lbs honey be too much honey? Should I stick with a 6lbs/1lb or split it with a 5.5lbs DME/ 1.5lbs honey? The more I read up, it seems like 5.5lbs of dry extract with 1.5lbs honey will probably give me the best balance of malt flavor while still getting a few extra points of attenuation.

 

[Bob]

Well what I was reading was more that yeast attenuation is based on malts. I also read that if you'd use WLP001 on just corn sugar (and nothing else), that you might actually see a much higher attenuation since its almost all completely fermentable as opposed to extract which has more unfermentable sugars. With something with more sugar or honey or something highly fermentable, that 70-80% attenuation might actually be 90%. Maybe I just read that wrong.

I think you did. The more fermentable the wort, the closer to the upper range you'll get. But if the range is 70-80%, it's unlikely you'll get much more than 80%, no matter how fermentable the wort.

So would a 5lbs DME/ 2lbs honey be too much honey? Should I stick with a 6lbs/1lb or split it with a 5.5lbs DME/ 1.5lbs honey? The more I read up, it seems like 5.5lbs of dry extract with 1.5lbs honey will probably give me the best balance of malt flavor while still getting a few extra points of attenuation.

I really couldn't say, as I like a more complex grist for IIPA with no simple sugars at all. I think you'll end up with a bone-dry bitterness bomb. If that's what you're after, go for it.

Bob