Evabarrier line length for soda

[Summa_Brewologica]

Anyone use Evabarrier 4mm line for soda? I am not looking for exact lengths. I’m just curious if anyone has a similar setup. I have a 39ft roll and am unsure how to calculate the Eva barrier lines vs the standard beer lines for balancing.
I have a keg carbing at 32psi right now. Not sure if that’s enough for soda or not but it’s my starting point.

 

[LitBrewing]

I am about to try 39' eva barrier with 4mm and a pluto gun line as soon as I can get an adapter to connect it to my liquid ball lock....

 

[Bobby_M]

Start with 39ft. If it's too slow, trim off 6 feet and try again.

 

[LitBrewing]

@Bobby didn't you say on another thread that you use the full 39 at like 35PSI serving pressure? I tried plugging that into various calculators, and when I plug that line length in it says 17 second pour which seems a bit slow.

Also, another question....

I am told that C02 goes into liquid at like 15psi, so anything above that will maintain whatever carb level you had when you force carbonated the beverage. Is that accurate?

 

[Bobby_M]

@Bobby didn't you say on another thread that you use the full 39 at like 35PSI serving pressure? I tried plugging that into various calculators, and when I plug that line length in it says 17 second pour which seems a bit slow.

Yes, I do. I trust my experience more than an online calculator. At 35 psi and 39feet, I get a full pint of seltzer in about 6 seconds.

I am told that C02 goes into liquid at like 15psi, so anything above that will maintain whatever carb level you had when you force carbonated the beverage. Is that accurate?

The amount of CO2 goes into liquid based on both temperature and pressure. You could throw in time as another factor because it's not immediate, but given about two weeks it eventually reaches equilibrium. 15psi is a completely arbitrary number so what you were told is incorrect. There is a huge difference in dissolved CO2 at 15 vs 30psi. Look up "carbonation chart".

 

[LitBrewing]

Yes, I do. I trust my experience more than an online calculator. At 35 psi and 39feet, I get a full pint of seltzer in about 6 seconds.



The amount of CO2 goes into liquid based on both temperature and pressure. You could throw in time as another factor because it's not immediate, but given about two weeks it eventually reaches equilibrium. 15psi is a completely arbitrary number so what you were told is incorrect. There is a huge difference in dissolved CO2 at 15 vs 30psi. Look up "carbonation chart".

Thanks for the response! So based on what you are saying unless you drink it quickly or keep it at a high PSI it will eventually equalize the pressure with what is in the solution ( assuming typical serving temps, etc ). I hear a lot of people saying they force carb at 30-psi, then serve at like 15-20 psi with a 6ft standard beer line ( not 4mm ) line, so i'm just trying to rationalize why they would do that. I'm just guessing they drink it quickly enough (within a week or two) that it doesn't matter or they are not as picky about carbonation levels.

 

[marc1]

Thanks for the response! So based on what you are saying unless you drink it quickly or keep it at a high PSI it will eventually equalize the pressure with what is in the solution ( assuming typical serving temps, etc ). I hear a lot of people saying they force carb at 30-psi, then serve at like 15-20 psi with a 6ft standard beer line ( not 4mm ) line, so i'm just trying to rationalize why they would do that. I'm just guessing they drink it quickly enough (within a week or two) that it doesn't matter or they are not as picky about carbonation levels.

For beer, they put it under 30PSI for a short period of time to get a lot of CO2 into solution. They do not leave it at 30 long enough to come to equilibrium, which would be overcarbonated. Then they turn it down to the pressure that will give them the volumes of CO2 at equilibrium they want in the beer at the storage/serving temperature of the beer.

I keep soda water at 30 PSI the whole time, and have 7 or 8 feet of the Evabarrier line, the same as for my beer.

15-20 PSI sounds high for beer, and low for soda water. But that is going to depend on your temperature and desired volumes of CO2.

 

[Bobby_M]

Thanks for the response! So based on what you are saying unless you drink it quickly or keep it at a high PSI it will eventually equalize the pressure with what is in the solution ( assuming typical serving temps, etc ). I hear a lot of people saying they force carb at 30-psi, then serve at like 15-20 psi with a 6ft standard beer line ( not 4mm ) line, so i'm just trying to rationalize why they would do that. I'm just guessing they drink it quickly enough (within a week or two) that it doesn't matter or they are not as picky about carbonation levels.

Beer is typically carbonated to about 10-12psi, that is to say if you left it at 12psi for a year, it would typically taste like you'd expect beer to taste and "feel". If you left a beer at 30psi for more than 24 hours, it would overcarbonate. If you left it at 30 for a week, all you'd pour is a full glass of foam. Since it takes about 2 weeks for a beer to reach full carbonation at whatever pressure you put it at, there's a trick to accelerate the curve by doubling or even tripling the pressure for a short time. Like I said, something like 30psi for 24 hours but then you have to back down to 10-12 and leave it there.

Soda is not beer. It's carbonated to 30psi generally so to play the fast carb game with soda, you're talking about 50-60psi for a day.

 

[Summa_Brewologica]

Start with 39ft. If it's too slow, trim off 6 feet and try again.

Thanks for this reply. I did start with 39 ft. It was perfect at first but now it seems to be coming out too flat at 35 psi.

I don’t think it is under carbed I think it is just coming out too fast. I’m gonna drop it to 30 psi and see if that helps.

 

[LitBrewing]

Thanks for this reply. I did start with 39 ft. It was perfect at first but now it seems to be coming out too flat at 35 psi.

I don’t think it is under carbed I think it is just coming out too fast. I’m gonna drop it to 30 psi and see if that helps.

Is there any difference in the way it's coming out now vs before? I assume you are keeping 35psi on all the time? If that is the case it should be well carbed... Do you think there is perhaps some turbulence being introduced with the tap or the post/poppit?

 

[Summa_Brewologica]

Is there any difference in the way it's coming out now vs before? I assume you are keeping 35psi on all the time? If that is the case it should be well carbed... Do you think there is perhaps some turbulence being introduced with the tap or the post/poppit?

I think initially it wasn’t fully carbed. I tapped it after a week. It’s been about 2 weeks now since I initially hooked it up. It just seems like it’s coming out too fast and over-foaming. It’s well carbonated so I know it is getting flat somewhere in the pour.

 

[cscalesey]

@Summa_Brewologica Did you figure out what was causing excessive pressure? Having a similar issue and I'm curious how your experience turned out.

 

[Summa_Brewologica]

@Summa_Brewologica Did you figure out what was causing excessive pressure? Having a similar issue and I'm curious how your experience turned out.

I did maybe two more kegs after posting this and gave up. I could never get it to match the bite I get from restaurant soda. Either 35 psi isn’t enough for me or it was losing carbonation at the pour. I suspect, though, that 39 ft was not nearly enough. Especially given that my kegs are all just about at tap level.

I also suspect that I, personally, need way more carbonation (like 50 psi or so) which would also require way more line.

I might revisit this, someday, as it’s always been a personal goal and the alternatives are just way too expensive.

If you do figure out what’s going on, please PLEASE report back and let me know. I’d love to try this again with success.