English Brett Strains

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sprinko

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Historically, English strong ales aged a very long time to develop a particular and highly sought after "English character." We now know that character came from Brettanomyces, and possibly multiple strains of it.

I want to brew these historical beers, but I need these English Brett strains. The only commercially available one is White Labs Brett C, but I want more. I'm starting by asking every yeast lab I know if they've got isolates. I'm also planning on culturing it from Gale's Prize Old Ale, but it would be great to get my hands on bottles of similar beers.

My three questions are:

1. Has anyone isolated some English Brett strains I can use?

2. Does anyone have access to any of these bottles:
A Le Coq Imperial Extra Double Stout
Colne Spring Ale
Pre-reboot bottles of Courage Imperial Stout

3. Does Greene King's Olde Suffolk have viable Brett in it?

Thanks very much!
Nico
 
Wyeast used to sell a strain they called Brettanomyces Anomalus that was supposedly isolated from an English stock ale, but its no longer available. It might have been something similar to WLP brett c.

I'm pretty interested in this topic as well, but sadly, since British breweries cleaned up their process and began to rely on single strains of yeast decades ago, its going to be pretty difficult to find isolates of the strains that showed up in old stock ales. Maybe if you happened upon some very old bottles of beer---and even then who knows whether any yeast cells will have survived. I didn't realize Le Coq still had brettanomyces in it, I might be able to get bottles of that and Gale's locally; according to martyn cornell production of Colne Spring ceased in 1970.

Interested to hear if anyone has other ideas though...
 
Thanks for the response! Can't believe I've never seen your blog before, what a gold mine. Great to see other like-minded people in the community.

Here's what I've found out in the past few days.

1. Almost no one has English Brett isolates haha

2. Colne Spring and old Courage bottles will be hard to find, but I found Gale's and Le Coq

3. Olde Suffolk is pasteurized

I'm going to do my best to culture the Brett out of Gale's and Le Coq, and then I'll have 4 English Brett strains (along with WL Brett C and an anomalus strain from Perennial Stefan). I'm gonna brew a 10 gal batch of 1.100 barleywine, ferment it with a few British Sacch strains, and split it into 4 separate batches, one for each Brett, and we'll see what sort of character each gets!

If anyone knows anything that might help, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
 
sprinko said:
Thanks for the response! Can't believe I've never seen your blog before, what a gold mine. Great to see other like-minded people in the community.

Here's what I've found out in the past few days.

1. Almost no one has English Brett isolates haha

2. Colne Spring and old Courage bottles will be hard to find, but I found Gale's and Le Coq

3. Olde Suffolk is pasteurized

I'm going to do my best to culture the Brett out of Gale's and Le Coq, and then I'll have 4 English Brett strains (along with WL Brett C and an anomalus strain from Perennial Stefan). I'm gonna brew a 10 gal batch of 1.100 barleywine, ferment it with a few British Sacch strains, and split it into 4 separate batches, one for each Brett, and we'll see what sort of character each gets!

If anyone knows anything that might help, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Click to expand...

I saw you emailed me about this recently and I got back to you that I currently do not have a Brett of English origin. If you have target beers with Brett in them, I'm happy to put some effort into isolating a strain for you. Email me if you're interested Nico.

Cheers!
 
As much as I'd like to support ECY, that ain't happening. Anyone with a business plan of "it will be available when I get around to it" can pound sand. The Yeast Bay out on the left coast is presently working on some unique English strains. When they put them up for sale, that means you can actually order them and get them when you need them. Seriously, excuse the anti ECY rant, the Yeast Bay should be checked out. They isolate the strains and White Labs does the production.
 
I support and have been very happy with the performance of both of these yeast companies. ECY is a very small time operation, it's not like they limit production just to get on your nerves. I kept an eye on love2brew.com and have been able to purchase all of the strains I was interested in without too much trouble.
 
Really interested in this thread. I've got a few English style beers going that I've fermented with an English Sacc strain then pitched White Labs Brett C in the Secondary. Have a dark mild and an old ale going. But these kinds of beers are right up my alley.
 
Le Coq (Harveys) is supposedly Debaryomyces Hansenii, not brett. But certainly worth trying to culture up You could also try Elgoods Coolship, which is a wild ale from an historic brewery, it's quite a new beer for them. I presume it isn't pasteurised.

As for others, sadly most of the aged beers died out due to the gravity drop and changing tastes. I'm sure plenty of the local regional cask bitters and so on have plenty of interesting bugs in them from open fermentation and so on, but they don't get a foothold in those beers due to the amount of yeast pitched and the fact that they are typically drunk within a few weeks of being brewed. The bottled variants are almost all pasteurised.
 
allouez86 said:
Really interested in this thread. I've got a few English style beers going that I've fermented with an English Sacc strain then pitched White Labs Brett C in the Secondary. Have a dark mild and an old ale going. But these kinds of beers are right up my alley.
Click to expand...

Allouez, I've been doing the same thing. English Sacc and Brett C for an imperial stout and an old ale. But I started thinking: what if that's equivalent to using a saison strain and Brett L to make a gueuze? What if we should be using a much larger array of microbes to make English strong ales?

I'm in talks with a few yeast labs to help isolate the bugs in both Gale's Prize and Le Coq. I'll keep you updated!


Hanglow said:
Le Coq (Harveys) is supposedly Debaryomyces Hansenii, not brett. But certainly worth trying to culture up You could also try Elgoods Coolship, which is a wild ale from an historic brewery, it's quite a new beer for them. I presume it isn't pasteurised.
Click to expand...

Hanglow, I'm very interested and would love to learn more. What is Debaryomyces Hansenii, and where did you find this info?

Elgood's Coolship sounds amazing, an English lambic! It would be wonderful to analyze the yeast and bugs in that beer, if they really originated from the air in their brewery, rather than from Belgian dregs. Wish I could get my hands on some, but I doubt I'll find it out here in California.
 
allouez86 said:
Really interested in this thread. I've got a few English style beers going that I've fermented with an English Sacc strain then pitched White Labs Brett C in the Secondary. Have a dark mild and an old ale going. But these kinds of beers are right up my alley.
Click to expand...

Allouez, I've been doing the same with a barleywine and an imperial stout. But I started thinking, what if using a single sacch strain and Brett C to brew a barleywine is equivalent to using a single sacch strain and Brett L to brew a lambic? What I mean is, imagine the diversity of yeast and microbes in historic English strong ales that we might be missing out on.

I'll keep this thread updated with my progress. A few yeast labs have reached out to me to help isolate the bugs out of Gale's and Le Coq (thanks BioBrewer!), so I'll let you know what happens.


Hanglow said:
Le Coq (Harveys) is supposedly Debaryomyces Hansenii, not brett. But certainly worth trying to culture up You could also try Elgoods Coolship, which is a wild ale from an historic brewery, it's quite a new beer for them. I presume it isn't pasteurised.
Click to expand...

Hanglow, tell me more, what is Debaryomyces Hansenii, and where did you find that info? Any leads would be great!

I would love to taste Elgoods Coolship, that sounds amazing. If it really is a locally English lambic, it would be great to analyze the bugs in there.
 
allouez86 said:
Really interested in this thread. I've got a few English style beers going that I've fermented with an English Sacc strain then pitched White Labs Brett C in the Secondary. Have a dark mild and an old ale going. But these kinds of beers are right up my alley.
Click to expand...

Allouez, I've been doing the same with a barleywine and an imperial stout. But I started thinking, what if using a single sacch strain and Brett C to brew a barleywine is equivalent to using a single sacch strain and Brett L to brew a lambic? What I mean is, imagine the diversity of yeast and microbes in historic English strong ales that we might be missing out on.

I'll keep this thread updated with my progress. A few yeast labs have reached out to me to help isolate the bugs out of Gale's and Le Coq (thanks BioBrewer!), so I'll let you know what happens.


Hanglow said:
Le Coq (Harveys) is supposedly Debaryomyces Hansenii, not brett. But certainly worth trying to culture up You could also try Elgoods Coolship, which is a wild ale from an historic brewery, it's quite a new beer for them. I presume it isn't pasteurised.
Click to expand...

Hanglow, tell me more, what is Debaryomyces Hansenii, and where did you find that info? Any leads would be great!

I would love to taste Elgoods Coolship, that sounds amazing. If it really is a locally English lambic, it would be great to analyze the bugs in there.
 
Thanks! That's so frustrating, it wouldn't let me post every time I tried for days, now it posts all of them haha.

That's really interesting about Debaromyces, never heard of it before. Really wish someone would write a Wild Brews, English edition. Maybe I'll have to take a little trip to the U.K. to do some research.....
 
I thought there might be a glitch in the matrix, so I guessed you wanted to know where that info was from :eek:
 
sprinko said:
Allouez, I've been doing the same with a barleywine and an imperial stout. But I started thinking, what if using a single sacch strain and Brett C to brew a barleywine is equivalent to using a single sacch strain and Brett L to brew a lambic? What I mean is, imagine the diversity of yeast and microbes in historic English strong ales that we might be missing out on.

I'll keep this thread updated with my progress. A few yeast labs have reached out to me to help isolate the bugs out of Gale's and Le Coq (thanks BioBrewer!), so I'll let you know what happens.




Hanglow, tell me more, what is Debaryomyces Hansenii, and where did you find that info? Any leads would be great!

I would love to taste Elgoods Coolship, that sounds amazing. If it really is a locally English lambic, it would be great to analyze the bugs in there.
Click to expand...


Yeah I totally agree with your statements on just using Brett C, but at this point with the lack of information it seems like this is the easiest way to get "similar" results to those older style. I'd be very curious to see what other bugs are found in those beers.
 
Apparently Wyeast are releasing a Brett C strain as part of their spring Private Collection. No info on their site yet, but it could be another strain with English origins.
 
Found the description from last time they released it. I guess its probably just a variation on the White Labs strain:

Brettanomyces Claussenii was originally isolated from English stock ale by its namesake, N. Claussen. While this strain does produce the classic Brett "horse blanket" , leathery and somewhat smoky notes, they are more subdued when produced by this strain than by other Brett strains. Other aroma and flavor compounds round out the classic Brett character, with tropical fruit notes of pineapple and, to a lesser extent, peach and blueberry. Brett Claussenii can be used as the primary strain for fermenting, but is often used after a primary fermentation with an S. cerevisiae strain, and in blends to produce sour beers. It is highly attenuative, given proper time to fully ferment out, and is known to create a pellicle during fermentation.
Click to expand...
 
At The Yeast Bay, we are working with one of the largest cell depositors in the world to commercialize a number of Brett strains they have on their collection. Two of primary interest are a number of B. Anomala strains that were isolated from English stout and stock ales. Really looking forward to the evaluation phase!

I've also been attempting to culture a number of English beers I received from someone in the East Bay that contain Brett.
 
Biobrewer said:
At The Yeast Bay, we are working with one of the largest cell depositors in the world to commercialize a number of Brett strains they have on their collection. Two of primary interest are a number of B. Anomala strains that were isolated from English stout and stock ales. Really looking forward to the evaluation phase!

I've also been attempting to culture a number of English beers I received from someone in the East Bay that contain Brett.
Click to expand...

That's very exciting. Will you be sending those strains out to your beta testers? I enjoyed reading about the evaluation process last time, and I'd be particularly interested in hearing about these strains.
 
metic said:
That's very exciting. Will you be sending those strains out to your beta testers? I enjoyed reading about the evaluation process last time, and I'd be particularly interested in hearing about these strains.
Click to expand...


Once I finalize an agreement with this cell depositor, yes, they will likely be handed down to my beta testers for some evaluation.
 
That sounds awesome. It's been a while since I made an attempt at an English style. But this thread has me thinking about it.
 
A blend would indeed be awesome!

I however would love to see some unique single strain isolates for sale as well!
 
A little more information from The Yeast Bay's Facebook page:

We have some really big news for all those people out there into experimenting with Brettanomyces. We've been working with one of the largest cell repositories in the world to commercialize a number of their Brettanomyces strains, and today we finalized an agreement!

We'll be specifically looking at commercializing a number of B. anomalus strains isolated from English stock ales and stouts for release as both a single strain product and as part of an English Stock Ale blend, as well as B. naardenensis for production of a single strain product.

We're really excited to get the evaluation process underway and get these strains in your fermentors! Stay tuned fro more information as we begin our evaluation process.
Click to expand...
 
I just saw something interesing while buying groceries today.

The store I go to sells all sorts of health foods, organic this and that, and a lot of vitamins and probiotics.

I took a look at one of the probiotics and it listed brettanomyces anomola as one of the ingredients as well as debaromyces and some weird sach species. I didnt buy it because if was $50, but interesting none the less!
 
metic said:
Found the description from last time they released it. I guess its probably just a variation on the White Labs strain:
Click to expand...
here's the Wyeast write-up for the 2015 release:

Wyeast 5151-PC Brettanomyces claussenii™

Beer Styles: Old Ale, Historic Porters & Milds, Foreign Extra Stout, Wild & Sour Ales, Fruit Lambic, Flemish Red Ale, Belgian Specialty Ales
Profile: Notes of tropical fruit, pineapple and, to a lesser extent, peach and blueberry round out a classic Brett profile. Produces “horse blanket,” leathery, and smoky character, but at lower level than other Brett strains. Can be used as the primary strain for fermenting, but is often used after a primary fermentation with an S. cerevisiae strain, and in blends to produce sour beers. It is highly attenuative, given proper time to fully ferment out, and is known to create a pellicle during fermentation.

Alc. Tolerance 12% ABV
Flocculation low
Attenuation 80%+
Temp. Range 65-80°F (18-27°C)

https://www.wyeastlab.com/vssprogram.cfm?website=2
 
mnick12 said:
A blend would indeed be awesome!

I however would love to see some unique single strain isolates for sale as well!
Click to expand...

We will definitely be doing this as well! If the B. anomalus and B. naardenensis are good on their own as determined through our evaluations, we will offer them as single strains. I have had 100% B. naardenensis fermented beer and liked it, but I am 100% confident via some sequencing I did that there was other stuff in the culture that was used and that I procured at a later date, so this pure culture from a highly reputable yeast repository will be a much better barometer for the strain. There's also a chance the culture used in the beer I tried is different than the one I am set to receive, so it could be different all together (for better or for worse).

I have high hopes!
 
I'm so glad this thread has really taken off! After seeing all the interest here in the subject (and as my own interest grows into a serious hobby/mild obsession) I've decided to start a blog documenting my research into English Brett strains. There's a lot of info scattered around the web on the subject, and my goal is to condense it on this blog and provide a resource for others who want to learn. If you're a history nut like me, or you just want to learn how to brew these traditional beers, I hope this will be useful to you!

http://britishfungus.blogspot.com/
 
Biobrewer said:
We will definitely be doing this as well! If the B. anomalus and B. naardenensis are good on their own as determined through our evaluations, we will offer them as single strains. I have had 100% B. naardenensis fermented beer and liked it, but I am 100% confident via some sequencing I did that there was other stuff in the culture that was used and that I procured at a later date, so this pure culture from a highly reputable yeast repository will be a much better barometer for the strain. There's also a chance the culture used in the beer I tried is different than the one I am set to receive, so it could be different all together (for better or for worse).

I have high hopes!
Click to expand...


I have the ecy naard, and while I have not used it in primary I did pitch a small sarter into the secondary of a flanders ale. All I can say is the starter smelled weird, but in a good way.

I am excited to see what you guys get!
 
Unfortunately not. Me and @biobrewer attempted to culture many bottles of Gale's Prize and Le Coq, but with no luck.

If anyone lives in the U.K., do us all a favor by stopping by Greene King and swabbing their barrels. Or if you can find the 2007 or 2008 Fuller's editions of Gale's Prize, we could maybe isolate from that. Fuller's took much better care of that beer, leading me to believe there could be viable bugs living in those two vintages.
 
Marble have rebrewed Gales POA with proper yeast/culture from Fullers, so look out for that when it is released. They are ageing it in different barrels so it may pick up some other bugs too though
 
sprinko said:
Unfortunately not. Me and @biobrewer attempted to culture many bottles of Gale's Prize and Le Coq, but with no luck.

If anyone lives in the U.K., do us all a favor by stopping by Greene King and swabbing their barrels. Or if you can find the 2007 or 2008 Fuller's editions of Gale's Prize, we could maybe isolate from that. Fuller's took much better care of that beer, leading me to believe there could be viable bugs living in those two vintages.
Click to expand...


Yes, I was unfortunately unable to revive a culture from either of the older bottles, always willing to give it a shot with another fresher one! I still have a bottle of each I believe, perhaps I'll give it one more shot when I have a little extra culture capacity!
 

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