English Bitter hopping advice

[lowtones84]

I brewed this bitter a while back and it was a big hit among myself and friends. The one thing I wasn't -quite- happy with was the hop presence though, more on the flavor/aroma front. The numbers are a little weird to get IBUs correct (and it's a 4 gallon batch) but here was the hop schedule. OG was 1.046, grain bill mostly Maris Otter with a touch of crystal 77 and flaked barley.

.33 oz. Target (11 %) @ 60
.13 oz. Target @ 20
.25 oz. EKG @ 20
.17 oz. Target @ FO
.25 oz. EKG @ FO
.12 oz. Target Hopstand @ 142-150ishF for 30 min. (Target temp for both additions was 170)
.5 oz. EKG Hopstand @142-150ishF for 30 min.

Should I take out the 20 minute addition and add it to the hopstand? Add the FO addition to the hopstand? Keep both the 20 minute and FO, and just add to the hopstand? Just dryhop the thing?

I have Fuggles and Challenger as well as EKG and Target to play with too, but I did enjoy the profile of the original. It was also my first time trying a hopstand, and something I would like to continue playing with. Thanks in advance all!

 

[ncbrewer]

I'm sold on hop stands. After trying it the first time, I haven't used any other late addition hops since. It produces good flavor and aroma. I do my hop stands at about 185F with the lid on. One drawback is that I get some added bitterness from this, and I had to experiment a little to find out how much to allow for. I ended up using an equivalent boil time of the hop stand time x 0.3 for the 185F hop stand to calculate the IBU contribution. Since you do 142 - 150F hop stands, it's probably more straight forward with no IBU contribution. But I don't understand your flameout hops that are different from hop stand - seems like flameout hops are the same as hop stand.

Anyway, I would go heavy on hop stand. JMO.

 

[JKaranka]

I would change it a bit:

@60m Target
@20m EKG
@Hopstand EKG & Target

When you said you weren't happy with the hop presence I assume you meant there wasn't enough aroma? You should have noticeable flavour from those additions and some restrained aroma. You could get rid of the crystal malt and add a EKG / Target dry hop to make it more of a golden ale.

 

[lowtones84]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

I just finished brewing actually, haha. I kept everything the same this time but just upped the hopstand amounts of both hops.

Flameout hops aren't exactly the same as a hopstand because I chill pretty quickly. If I were to just let it cool without a chiller, I assume it would be a similar effect to your hopstand at around 180F. I'm not that experienced with the technique, but from what I've read you get different results from FO, hopstand in the 190-212 range (similar to FO), the 160-170 range, and the 140-150 range. This is only my second time employing the technique, so I don't really know much though

Here's my source:https://byo.com/mead/item/2808-hop-stands