English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

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Erik the Anglophile said:
Gonna order some then, have to restock my sugar chest aswell with some quality light and dark muscovado. The idea with the bitter is to use it in a neutral grain bill to really see what it brings to the table.
If I like it I might use it in that 1900 Whitbread single stout as the 20% amber it has in the recipe.
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Use at least double the amount then, compared to the amber. You can also use it 100% on its own, it's diastatic. I brewed 50% stouts with it and it was marvellous. Don't be afraid to use it in high quantity in dark beers. An imperial only smash is also on my list.
 
Calling on @patto1ro wether Simpson's Imperial may be used as a sub for amber malt in post introduction of drum roaster-to-ww1 era beers.

It seems when looking at recipes that amber malt kinda dissapeared during ww1, but I feel fairly certain I've read that the re-introduced kind is much roastier than the original kind, and that it used to be diastatic.
 
Erik the Anglophile said:
Calling on @patto1ro wether Simpson's Imperial may be used as a sub for amber malt in post introduction of drum roaster-to-ww1 era beers.

It seems when looking at recipes that amber malt kinda dissapeared during ww1, but I feel fairly certain I've read that the re-introduced kind is much roastier than the original kind, and that it used to be diastatic.
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Why not just try it and see if you like it as a substitute for amber malt? I don't think there's any need to over think it, it's just personal preferences.

I used 40% in a dark mild with good outcome.
 
Erik the Anglophile said:
Calling on @patto1ro wether Simpson's Imperial may be used as a sub for amber malt in post introduction of drum roaster-to-ww1 era beers.

It seems when looking at recipes that amber malt kinda dissapeared during ww1, but I feel fairly certain I've read that the re-introduced kind is much roastier than the original kind, and that it used to be diastatic.
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Cheeky so-and-so! ;) Now why would you think @patto1ro would answer a question like that? It's well outside his "normal" area of study and he doesn't normally post on such matters. But who knows, he might well of visited the maltings in his travels and has an opinion?

Simpsons have a very modern maltings, and they appear to use them in quite imaginative ways. Their "amber malt" is not diastatic (61EBC give or take 7-8) and has a most distinctive flavour; it is used in Fullers 1845, and I can't make a "clone" of that beer without it (and I have tried, 1845 is perhaps my favourite commercial tipple). Imperial malt, which is diastatic even though it's roasted to 45EBC, has much the same flavours (but at a lower level). I'm looking forward to trying their aromatic malt, and "Cornish Gold" which despite being used as a base malt is roasted to 25EBC.

But I won't use their malts in any attempted historical recreation! They use too much "modern" jiggery-pokery.

The pre-drum-roaster amber malts were, in my view, the lighter coloured of the so-called "brown" malts. Neither bore any resemblance to malts of the same name today. Unless you believe some of the "magical lost knowledge" ideas some spout :rolleyes: .

Enjoy Simpsons malts for what they are: Fine modern-day examples of the maltsters craft. Not copies of a former-days hard graft.
 
Yeah I know, that's why I when I brew beers inspired by historical practises/school of thought, I opt for the period around 1900 +/- 10 years.

This is as I understand it the furthest back you can likeky go and for example having brown malt not being all too different from what we have today(the drum roaster had been widely adopted by that time, and I've seen accounts from then of people complaining brown malt and porters/stouts having lost the flavour they used to have).

My remaining issue seems to be amber malt, from what I can see it was a drum roasted malt by then, but it seems to have still been somewhat diastatic and therefore likely less roasted than the re-introduced kind of today.
Now I am just completely free-thinking here, but maybe Simpson's with their Imperial malt have made an attempt to sort of recreate old-school amber malt?
 
Erik the Anglophile said:
Calling on @patto1ro wether Simpson's Imperial may be used as a sub for amber malt in post introduction of drum roaster-to-ww1 era beers.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure he's said as much in Let's Brew comments.

ETA: Not an amber sub, but for high-dried. And always "evidently" or "I've been told...."
 
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Peebee said:
Cheeky so-and-so! ;) Now why would you think @patto1ro would answer a question like that? It's well outside his "normal" area of study and he doesn't normally post on such matters. But who knows, he might well of visited the maltings in his travels and has an opinion?

Simpsons have a very modern maltings, and they appear to use them in quite imaginative ways. Their "amber malt" is not diastatic (61EBC give or take 7-8) and has a most distinctive flavour; it is used in Fullers 1845, and I can't make a "clone" of that beer without it (and I have tried, 1845 is perhaps my favourite commercial tipple). Imperial malt, which is diastatic even though it's roasted to 45EBC, has much the same flavours (but at a lower level). I'm looking forward to trying their aromatic malt, and "Cornish Gold" which despite being used as a base malt is roasted to 25EBC.

But I won't use their malts in any attempted historical recreation! They use too much "modern" jiggery-pokery.

The pre-drum-roaster amber malts were, in my view, the lighter coloured of the so-called "brown" malts. Neither bore any resemblance to malts of the same name today. Unless you believe some of the "magical lost knowledge" ideas some spout :rolleyes: .

Enjoy Simpsons malts for what they are: Fine modern-day examples of the maltsters craft. Not copies of a former-days hard graft.
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This is an awesome exchange. Musing on a historical mild, and what we have available locally is Fawcett's brown and amber. This is great to know.

And is it Tribute, where I saw they use Cornish Gold?
 
HM-2 said:
I would have a look at the Warminster range if you want some closer approximations of historic malts.
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Wasn't aware Warminster had these malts - I just tapped the last of my Warminster MO, and have a bag of Fawcett MO, but have always loved the Warminster (some recent turbidity issues are on me, not the malt, goes without saying).
 
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Gadjobrinus said:
Wasn't aware Warminster had these malts - I just tapped the last of my Warminster MO, and have a bag of Fawcett MO, but have always loved the Warminster (some recent turbidity issues are on me, not the malt, goes without saying).
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Maltings Gold is fantastic. I've never done a 100% brew with it (though I absolutely will) but at 30% of the grist it was like turbocharged Munich with that nutty British twang. Awesome stuff.
 
Erik the Anglophile said:
... My remaining issue seems to be amber malt, from what I can see it was a drum roasted malt by then, but it seems to have still been somewhat diastatic and therefore likely less roasted than the re-introduced kind of today.
Now I am just completely free-thinking here, but maybe Simpson's with their Imperial malt have made an attempt to sort of recreate old-school amber malt?
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You've seen some of my attempts to "emulate" the extinct forms of brown and amber malts. I started writing up on this forum, but I've been distracted away from that. I created a rather "abstract" illustration of how "malt" evolved into different "hues":

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/english-ales-whats-your-favorite-recipe.472464/post-10345391

Then turned my attention to how "uniform" the process would be. From the pin sharp accuracy of modern kilns (microprocessor controlled, etc.) to the limited control of direct heat from burning available fuels and manual turning of grains to keep the heat "uniform". And also trying to picture how other factors such as the initial moisture content played its part.

I drew curves to imagine how the heat applied to the grain. From classic skinny-bell-shaped distribution curves to represent "modern" control of parameters, to stretched out "positive-skew" distribution curves to represent the less controlled historical open fire methods.

Superimposing these curves on "Histogram" graphs (bar charts, but where the width of bars is also meaningful) I could attempt to create "emulations" of historical malts from modern malt.

The (could be) complicated and seemingly random combinations were too much for many folk. But they had more credibility in my mind than the whimsical guesses seen elsewhere. And were much quicker and far less effort than attempting to make the stuff for real.
 
I have a malt question.
Anyone familar with mild ale malt?
A nearby home brew shop is selling off it's Fawcetts mild ale with a 40% discount.
Unfortunately only up to 5kg bags so still only the same price as I would pay per kilo for a 25kg sack of somethign else but might be worth a look.

A quick Google and I only found the below.
It's the same colour as some continental Pale Ale malts.


1712154817774.png
 
For some maltsters, Mild Ale malt is a different name for Vienna malt. For others, it is a special malt with higher protein content that creates more intense aromas when kilned a bit darker.

For Thomas Fawcett you can check this link. Then you'll see that it has similar specs to their Vienna malt, just paler. This ends up as being the same colour as continental Vienna malt, while their Vienna malt is what is called Munich I on the continent.

It might still taste more British (nuttier, more intense) than continental Vienna, however.
 
Colindo said:
For some maltsters, Mild Ale malt is a different name for Vienna malt. For others, it is a special malt with higher protein content that creates more intense aromas when kilned a bit darker.

For Thomas Fawcett you can check this link. Then you'll see that it has similar specs to their Vienna malt, just paler. This ends up as being the same colour as continental Vienna malt, while their Vienna malt is what is called Munich I on the continent.

It might still taste more British (nuttier, more intense) than continental Vienna, however.
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Great thanks for the info.
Works out almost exactly the same price per kilo as a 25Kg sack of Swaen Vienna with postage.
However I'm curious as to how it tastes and enjoy having a look around the brew shop/warehouse.
So I'll probably drop by and grab a few 5kg bags if they still have it on offer next week.
:cool:
 
Colindo said:
For some maltsters, Mild Ale malt is a different name for Vienna malt. For others, it is a special malt with higher protein content that creates more intense aromas when kilned a bit darker.
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Or "lighter"!

Always seems to be "darker" in UK (than "pale malt"), but on the continent the "dark" slot might be occupied by what they term "Pale".
 
Shenanigans said:
Great thanks for the info.
Works out almost exactly the same price per kilo as a 25Kg sack of Swaen Vienna with postage.
However I'm curious as to how it tastes and enjoy having a look around the brew shop/warehouse.
So I'll probably drop by and grab a few 5kg bags if they still have it on offer next week.
:cool:
Click to expand...
Would you mind letting me know which shop that is? The closest to both of us that I know of is sbi4homebrew.com, and they don't have mild malt.
 
Shenanigans said:
I have a malt question.
Anyone familar with mild ale malt?
A nearby home brew shop is selling off it's Fawcetts mild ale with a 40% discount.
Unfortunately only up to 5kg bags so still only the same price as I would pay per kilo for a 25kg sack of somethign else but might be worth a look.

A quick Google and I only found the below.
It's the same colour as some continental Pale Ale malts.


View attachment 845633
Click to expand...
I've been working my way through a sack of Malteurop mild ale malt.
Using it in Mild ales that I've made. Seems to do the job.
 
Colindo said:
Would you mind letting me know which shop that is? The closest to both of us that I know of is sbi4homebrew.com, and they don't have mild malt.
Click to expand...

The Brouwstore in the Netherlands near Ittervoort.

https://www.brouwstore.nl/fawcett-mild-ale-mout-5-kg

It's about 25Km from where I live and a bit closer to where I work.
Some of the 25kg sacks of malt are showing as about 35€ on their website but last time I was there (about a year ago) they were discounted by 5€ if you collect them yourself.

Hopefully I find time to drop by next week and the mild malt is not already sold out.
 
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Erik the Anglophile said:
Interesting, do they ship in the EU? Might buy a sack of that in that case, after I've used up the Crisp Vienna I use as a stand-in for mild malt now.
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I don't think so as the site is only in Dutch and I only see the price for shipping inside The Netherlands.
They can speak English so you could drop them a mail and ask.
I would imagine that the postage would be expensive though if they are not really set up for high volume international shipping.
 
Shenanigans said:
The Brouwstore in the Netherlands near Ittervoort.

https://www.brouwstore.nl/fawcett-mild-ale-mout-5-kg

It's about 25Km from where I live and a bit closer to where I work.
Some of the 25kg sacks of malt are showing as about 35€ on their website but last time I was there (about a year ago) they were discounted by 5€ if you collect them yourself.

Hopefully I find time to drop by next week and the mild malt is not already sold out.
Click to expand...
Oh, wow, that is really close. I did not know about the shop at all, looks great. They also have a large variety of liquid yeasts in stock. Better than any German shop I know of.
I still have some Warminster Mild Malt that I need to use up, which I ordered from braumischung.de. But I'm a big fan of shopping local. Will keep it in mind.
 
Colindo said:
Oh, wow, that is really close. I did not know about the shop at all, looks great. They also have a large variety of liquid yeasts in stock. Better than any German shop I know of.
I still have some Warminster Mild Malt that I need to use up, which I ordered from braumischung.de. But I'm a big fan of shopping local. Will keep it in mind.
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Yeah as far as yeasts go they seem to have the same range and prices as Brouwland.
They dont have them all there on site but if you call they can have it there for you the next day if available from their supplier.
 
So I picked up 25Kg of the Fawcett Mild malt yesterday.
Plus 2 x 25Kg sacks of Dingemans Pilsner and some other bits and pieces so it was worth the trip.
Also got a 9€ discount on the online price for self collection.

I have plans for the pilser malt but need to decide what to do with the mild malt. 🤔

Any suggestions?
 
Shenanigans said:
So I picked up 25Kg of the Fawcett Mild malt yesterday.
Plus 2 x 25Kg sacks of Dingemans Pilsner and some other bits and pieces so it was worth the trip.
Also got a 9€ discount on the online price for self collection.

I have plans for the pilser malt but need to decide what to do with the mild malt. 🤔

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Brew a mild!
 
For those interested in historical mild, I found a nice solution for getting brewer's caramel in Europe. I tried making it twice myself, the first one turned out burnt, the second ok, but far too pale. Then @Kristoffer84 showed me this product from the Netherlands: https://www.natuurlijknatuurlijk.nl...n/bio-gebrannte-zucker-flussig/a-392-10000012

He also got the specsheet from them which gives the colour as 3000 EBC (1500 SRM). So this is well suitable for colouring dark mild as was common throughout the 20th century. The company also verified that it is a very different product from pure coloring (E150).

I will be ordering a 1l-bottle soon and can then report on the flavour.
 

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Shenanigans said:
Any recipe you would recommend?
I have Nottingham, verdant, wlp007, WLP005, WY1469 and WY1275
However the WLP005 is 3rd or 4th generation and its attunuation is starting to go through the roof (over 80%) so probably not a good idea for a mild.
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Do you have any of the Graham Wheeler books, or the book Vintage Ales, by Ron Pattinson? The Pattinson 1954 Lee takes brewer's caramel, but if you're in Germany that shouldn't be a problem, I shouldn't think. Just a couple ideas:

View attachment 846122

View attachment 846124
 
Gadjobrinus said:
Do you have any of the Graham Wheeler books, or the book Vintage Ales, by Ron Pattinson? The Pattinson 1954 Lee takes brewer's caramel, but if you're in Germany that shouldn't be a problem, I shouldn't think. Just a couple ideas:

View attachment 846122

View attachment 846124
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Thanks!
I dont see any mild ale malt in those recipes though.
Was MO used because there was no mild ale malt available?
I have a pile of MO so wouldn't need to substitute it.
I'd be looking for a recipe where mild ale malt is specifically required.

I don't have any books from those guys but good idea; I will have a look on Ron's website to see if there are any suitable recipes.
I also have a few other older recipe books here that might have a mild in them.
 
Sorry, I edited the post but for some reason the edits tanked. Here's one that is 100% mild. Note that "mild" historically was highly variable as to color, strength and hoppiness. This 1865 Sarah Hughes was very pale, and strong. This is from the Pattinson book.

sarah hughes 1865 XX Lovibond mild.jpg
 
Bit of a using up some malts with addition of complexity. I used eclipse to darken as it adds no flavour and I've got a load of it.
Screenshot_20240410-010800.png

Happy to be shot down for this.
Used Wyeast 1099
 
Colindo said:
For those interested in historical mild, I found a nice solution for getting brewer's caramel in Europe. I tried making it twice myself, the first one turned out burnt, the second ok, but far too pale. Then @Kristoffer84 showed me this product from the Netherlands: https://www.natuurlijknatuurlijk.nl...n/bio-gebrannte-zucker-flussig/a-392-10000012

He also got the specsheet from them which gives the colour as 3000 EBC (1500 SRM). So this is well suitable for colouring dark mild as was common throughout the 20th century. The company also verified that it is a very different product from pure coloring (E150).

I will be ordering a 1l-bottle soon and can then report on the flavour.
Click to expand...
Wow, that looks really interesting! Thanks for sharing!
 
Colindo said:
Maybe the 1943 Barclay Perkins X Ale? I can give you the original yeast, if you'd like https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2020/05/lets-brew-1838-and-1943-barclay-perkins.html

Edit: This one also looks nice https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2019/04/lets-brew-1864-lovibond-x.html
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I'm no expert and it's a style I have never really dug deep into but I wouldn't have expected the older version of X Ale with an OG of 1.072 and 46 IBUs.
Almost sounds like an English barley wine.
Like he writes, it really shows how things can change over approx. 100 years.

My brew season is usually from November to April/ early May.
So I'm not sure if I can fit a mild in before Summer but I would eventually take you up on the yeast offer, thanks.
 

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