Electrical idiot here, questions about load

[kanzimonson]

I'm moving to a new house that has a great brew room, except it only has one circuit supplying power to it. The power box is across the house and would require extreme (read: expensive) work to get more lines over.

So I'm considering attempting to run everything on the one circuit if the load isn't too high. Other than a few lightbulbs, the only other electrical requirements are my fridges. This is what I have:

Kegerator (dorm fridge)
Another dorm fridge (I'm willing to get rid of this one)
A kitchen fridge
An upright freezer with temp controller (used for fermentation and also cold storage)

The fact is, in my current house I have all of these on the same circuit and I've never tripped the breaker. But I don't know if I'm pushing the limit and doing something I shouldn't.

I have a suspicion you smart people aren't going to be able to officially call it until I get the exact power requirements for each appliance, but any opinions?

 

[elerten]

Without knowing the breaker size its tough to guess. Probably never be a problem so long as 2 to 3 appliances dont start at once. Then even a 20 amp might blow.

 

[IslandLizard]

Most of those circuits are 15A, you've got some leeway, as you've noticed in the past.

If all their compressors started at the exact same time, it may pop the breaker. The odds of that happening are very small. Each one pulls 10-12A for a brief moment at start-up, before running duty at say a nominal 2-4A.

Once you've settled in, and know how you want to use that space, you'll have a much better idea what it needs. Perhaps you'd want to go all electrical. You can make a much more informed decision then, and not spend money twice for basically the same thing. Pulling wire can be costly, but whether it is for a 20A or 60A circuit makes little difference, aside from the cost of the wire.

Maybe you can find someone to do it for you.

 

[kanzimonson]

I don't plan on having an electric brewery, so I just need enough power to run the fridges. However, I had hoped to acquire at least one more upright freezer for fermentation so that I could get a conical but looks like that might be pushing it.

The reason it would be super expensive to add additional circuits is because I'd have to rip out the dry wall from the ceiling to run the conduit, and we're talking about traveling the entire length of the house which is probably about 100 feet. I'm not experienced enough to do this kind of work myself, so the quotes I'm getting are about $4k to install 5 more circuits.

 

[BigFloppy]

I don't plan on having an electric brewery, so I just need enough power to run the fridges. However, I had hoped to acquire at least one more upright freezer for fermentation so that I could get a conical but looks like that might be pushing it.

The reason it would be super expensive to add additional circuits is because I'd have to rip out the dry wall from the ceiling to run the conduit, and we're talking about traveling the entire length of the house which is probably about 100 feet. I'm not experienced enough to do this kind of work myself, so the quotes I'm getting are about $4k to install 5 more circuits.

Angies List

 

[flars]

Don't know how finished the remainder of the lower level is, but these are things I would consider that you may have considered already:
Crawl space under the house, if there is one.
Through the attic, if it is accessible.
Wires in an exposed conduit, along the ceiling or along the floor.
Cut a strip of drywall from the ceiling for work access. Could be cut where extra lighting may be needed. Cover to make it decorative with accessibility in the future.

If anything is possible, offer to pull the wires for the electrician, he does the final connections, sub panel, etc.

 

[lump42]

For general circuit loads,Check the breaker. It should have a number on the switch. That is circuit load rating. You typically don't want your load more than 75-80% of the circuit breaker rating. If you consistently are close to the upper rating it will lower the lifespan of the breaker, wiring, and outlets (can be a fire hazard when they wear out). The amp draw of the appliances should be listed in the manuals (you can usually look them up on line from model no.) or on the rating plate on the back of the unit. Add the amp draw of the appliances, if it is within the 75-80% of the breaker rating than your fine. You were probably able to get away with it before because like elerton said none of them were kicking on at the same time.

 

[kanzimonson]

Don't know how finished the remainder of the lower level is, but these are things I would consider that you may have considered already:
Crawl space under the house, if there is one.
Through the attic, if it is accessible.
Wires in an exposed conduit, along the ceiling or along the floor.
Cut a strip of drywall from the ceiling for work access. Could be cut where extra lighting may be needed. Cover to make it decorative with accessibility in the future.

If anything is possible, offer to pull the wires for the electrician, he does the final connections, sub panel, etc.

Thanks for the suggestions - we are still investigating some of these options and something might work but I'm not confident.

This whole project is on the basement level, no crawl space. Attic has been converted into a master suite so that won't help. The rest of the basement is fully finished, usable living space so I don't think the wife will go for exposed conduit. All the finishing work in the basement was done recently so I don't think there are any needs for extra lights and stuff, but that's a good suggestion.

I'm not sure if this is allowed but I'm wondering if I can run some electricity around the outside of the house and then punch back into the brew room from the outside...

 

[The10mmKid]

It's perfectly acceptable to run electric outside the house. First choice would be in grey plastic electrical conduit. Second would be EMT with weathertite fittings. There may some restrictions in your local.

Have someone with some electrical knowledge scope out your options. I'd honor this person with some brew and dinner, but that's just the electrician in me talking.

The circuit breakers protect the wiring from overheating. You will be the best judge on how heavy they are loaded. My advise would be if the breaker trips twice, you need to move to 'Plan B'.

'da Kid

Thanks for the suggestions - we are still investigating some of these options and something might work but I'm not confident.

This whole project is on the basement level, no crawl space. Attic has been converted into a master suite so that won't help. The rest of the basement is fully finished, usable living space so I don't think the wife will go for exposed conduit. All the finishing work in the basement was done recently so I don't think there are any needs for extra lights and stuff, but that's a good suggestion.

I'm not sure if this is allowed but I'm wondering if I can run some electricity around the outside of the house and then punch back into the brew room from the outside...

 

[dyqik]

If your fridges and freezers are all running STC1000s or similar digital temperature controls, you can help make sure that they don't all kick on at once after a power outage by setting the compressor delays differently on each controller. That should make sure that you don't pop the breaker when the power comes back. If the controllers are all different, you're probably good anyway.

You can also get a kill-a-watt meter and check the current draw as each one turns on, either separately, or all together if you run them off a (15-20A rated, obv.) splitter.

 

[kanzimonson]

If your fridges and freezers are all running STC1000s or similar digital temperature controls, you can help make sure that they don't all kick on at once after a power outage by setting the compressor delays differently on each controller. That should make sure that you don't pop the breaker when the power comes back. If the controllers are all different, you're probably good anyway.

You can also get a kill-a-watt meter and check the current draw as each one turns on, either separately, or all together if you run them off a (15-20A rated, obv.) splitter.

The freezer has an STC1000, the dorm fridge has an analog Johnson controller, and the kegerator and kitchen fridge just run like normal.

A question I have about the compressor delay for the STC, and I hope I can phrase this correctly. Let's say I have the delay set for 15 minutes. Does this mean that the "delay function" is cycling every 15 minutes, regardless of whether the compressor is turning on and off? So let's say the freezer is loaded with a lot of mass, it's all at the 40*F set temp, and I'm not opening the door. The compressor likely would only need to turn on a few times per day to keep it at temp. But is this 15 minute cycle still running "in the background"? Am I making sense?

 

[dyqik]

The freezer has an STC1000, the dorm fridge has an analog Johnson controller, and the kegerator and kitchen fridge just run like normal.

A question I have about the compressor delay for the STC, and I hope I can phrase this correctly. Let's say I have the delay set for 15 minutes. Does this mean that the "delay function" is cycling every 15 minutes, regardless of whether the compressor is turning on and off? So let's say the freezer is loaded with a lot of mass, it's all at the 40*F set temp, and I'm not opening the door. The compressor likely would only need to turn on a few times per day to keep it at temp. But is this 15 minute cycle still running "in the background"? Am I making sense?

I understand what you mean, but no, the compressor delay is just a time delay between the controller detecting that it needs to switch on the compressor, and actually switching the relay to switch the compressor on. It's there to stop the controller detecting that it needs to turn off the compressor, switching the relay, then immediately detecting that it needs to turn the compressor back on and switching the relay again. Starting the compressor too quickly after stopping it can damage it, as well as causing wear on the relay etc..

 

[kanzimonson]

Got it

 

[raouliii]

.... the compressor delay is just a time delay between the controller detecting that it needs to switch on the compressor, and actually switching the relay to switch the compressor on. .....

Not quite the case. If the compressor has already been off for at least the compressor delay time, there is no delay when COOL ON is required.



The delay timer starts counting when the controller turns COOL OFF.
COOL ON is not available, regardless of other settings or readings, while the delay timer is counting.
When the delay timer reaches the delay set time, COOL ON is available again.

The delay timer starts counting again after the next COOL state change to OFF.