Efficiency problems

[Brewbro29]

Hey guys,
Let me start out by saying I've only done 3 batches so far, one of which was an extract and the other 2 were All-Grain, but the All-grain batches I made both had a significantly lower OG than expected. My last one came out 14 points under what it should have (based on the NB recipe).

I haven't gotten into messing with the pH of my water just yet, I basically do a sacch' rest at the average temp that the recipe calls for.. So no protein rests or mash-outs. Another issue I've been having is calculating the right amount of sparge water.. Last time I had a couple gallons over (brew 365 calculator sucks lol) which I think fudged up my OG..

I really need some tips or advice on how to get a better efficiency out of my grains because I plan on brewing an imperial in the near future!
Thanks!

 

[salb29]

First step get beer smith, worth the 25 $


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[Brewbro29]

Bump

 

[atoughram]

first step get beer smith, worth the 25 $

x2

 

[wilserbrewer]

Rather than blindly following a calculator for sparge water, measure runnings in the kettle and sparge the amount needed to reach pre boil volume. Amount of sparge water needed is simply preboil volume less what you have in the kettle.

Calculators are great tools...but try and also have an awareness of where you are going and where you need to be.

Keep it simple.


Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

 

[acidrain]

• Get Beersmith

• Learn your system... boil off rate, water-to-grist ratio, etc.

• Enter your system particulars into your Beersmith equipment profile

• Brew some simple beers like SMaSH recipes to learn about specific grains, hops and Yeasts

• Start building on your system (add a stir plate/flask for starters, a grain mill, fermentation chamber, etc.)

• Consult HBT for any questions.

Right now, you're still learning your system. You're gonna make mistakes... that's how you learn.

 

[Calichusetts]

beersmith is a must. Still, it will take more than a few batches to get your system down and get a handle on your system. Take the best notes you can. It will really help you hone in your system.

I filled my kettle with water, 1 quart at a time. I do small batches, so I used a 12 inch thermometer to mark where each quart was. After first runnings and sparging, I take a reading. Pretty spot on.

I would to also boil off water in your kettle to get a good idea of your boil off rate. Once you know that, and the amount you start with, you will at least hit your volume numbers.

Stick with AG though, you will be better off down the road. Brewer's friend has great calculators, at least for mash pH. I'd start there for your water profile. Very easy. You can get into Brun water later when you know what your doing.

Beersmith is a must for recipe design, efficiency and of course, OG.

Post back when you get a handle on these things and if you are still having issues.

 

[brewbama]

If you are batch sparging, I recommend reading Denny Conn's website. Also the Batch Sparging tutorial on the AHA website.

With the calculations in those articles you can create your own spreadsheet that will calculate your water volumes. They account for everything to include dead space in boil kettle and mash/lauter tun, boil off, grain absorption, mash out, and equal runnings.

The biggest thing I found that helps me hit OG besides water volume calculations is to stir like a mad man at dough in and sparge. I stir for at least 10 minutes to get the sugars in suspension.

HTH


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[IslandLizard]

+1 on all the above.

Check you crush too. If it's very coarse you'll lose efficiency.
If so, have them run it through twice or with a narrower gap, or get your own mill.

 

[Brewbro29]

Thanks guys! I also had a question about how you split up the water..

Last batch I had a mash of about 3 gallons and sparged with around 7 gallons. Would it be better to use more water in the mash instead?

 

[kh54s10]

Thanks guys! I also had a question about how you split up the water..

Last batch I had a mash of about 3 gallons and sparged with around 7 gallons. Would it be better to use more water in the mash instead?

What you mash with should be 1.25 to 1.5 quarts per pound of grain. Then instead of using X number of gallons to sparge, measure how much you collected from the mash. I take that number, usually around 2.5 gallons, and know that I need to collect just over 7 gallons for the boil to end up with just over 5 gallons. To make things more accurate I sparge in 2 sessions. I go with about 3 gallons for the first sparge and measure again. Then for the final sparge I add water just over what I need to get about 7.1 gallons total.

 

[j1n]

i like to keep my mash around 1.5 (qts/lb.)and typically split the water 40/60 mash-in/sparge

 

[brewbama]

Thanks guys! I also had a question about how you split up the water..

Last batch I had a mash of about 3 gallons and sparged with around 7 gallons. Would it be better to use more water in the mash instead?

I like to have equal runnings between the strike + mash out running and one batch sparge running. If you read those websites they'll tell you how to calculate it.


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[goosegrease]

Some recipes will list quarts per pound of grain, if not, 1.25 to 1.5 quarts of water to pound of grain is a decent guideline. As others have mentioned, if you have a good idea of what your boil off is ( the amount of wort you lose while boiling ) you will know what your initial volume of wort should be. Carefully measure your first runnings and deduct that volume from your target volume, then simply divide that number in two and do two batch sparges. Hope this helps

 

[allentwnguy]

I had a similar problem with my brewing. Constantly off Pre-boil gravity and OG. My efficiency was 57% -64%. I just brewed my first Kolsch last week and used the mill the first time. Lets say is really isn't a Kolsch because the mill brought my efficiency up to 88%! The commercial grain crush just didn't cut it. The Kolsch OG was 1.060, should have been 1.051. Kegged it yesterday with an ABV of 6.9. I think I can use less grain now!!! Not the porch beer I wanted but.... I have a Blond Ale in the mash tun now so we'll see but I would definitely check the crush on your grain.

 

[Bobby_M]

It's odd that someone would ask a question about low efficiency having admitted to only brewing 2 AG batches and have software come up often. How about describing the equipment being used and listing out the recipe and detailed steps that were used. We need this info to establish if sparging methods that fit the equipment were used. We need to know if the recipe contains grains that will actually "mash". Many many holes in the info here.

 

[Brewbro29]

I had a similar problem with my brewing. Constantly off Pre-boil gravity and OG. My efficiency was 57% -64%. I just brewed my first Kolsch last week and used the mill the first time. Lets say is really isn't a Kolsch because the mill brought my efficiency up to 88%! The commercial grain crush just didn't cut it. The Kolsch OG was 1.060, should have been 1.051. Kegged it yesterday with an ABV of 6.9. I think I can use less grain now!!! Not the porch beer I wanted but.... I have a Blond Ale in the mash tun now so we'll see but I would definitely check the crush on your grain.

I am actually looking at purchasing a mill within the next few days! I've heard that a lot of people had an increase in efficiency after milling their own.

 

[Leithoa]

While a grain mill can make for more consistent results unless your LHBS is completely incompetent you should still be getting decent efficiency.
You can always ask them to mill it twice. Look through your crushed grain and you should see whole husks with cracked or separated grains( crush 2.

Like was said, there are many things that can cause low efficiency other than grain crush. Doughballs, poor temp control, mash time. You can do the iodine test every 15 min or when you check mash temp to see how the conversion is coming along.
Brewing toys are nice but remember, there's been beer since they've had pots and mash paddles.

 

[allentwnguy]

Brewing toys are nice but remember, there's been beer since they've had pots and mash paddles.

Beer is such an exacting process now to get that exact (even though you really don't) taste time and time again. I've often wondered what they were drinking after a day of dragging those huge blocks of stone!

I've "ruined" a few brewing sessions and the beer that resulted, while not what I was shooting for, was quite tasty. The saying " relax have a beer" is so true, you will get something drinkable. The more parameters you can control the more accurate you can replicate and hit the style you are shooting for. That's where the toys/tools come in. Honing your process with tools, even cheaper ones will dial in what you are shooting for.

 

[Leithoa]

Honing your process with tools, even cheaper ones will dial in what you are shooting for.

Oh, absolutely. I guess I was trying to say is that toys can complicate your process making it hard to trouble shoot and/or cover up poor practices.
A grain mill is IMO unnecessary to getting better efficiency. Unless the LHBS has theirs waaaaay too wide you should be able to get into the high 70's possibly even break 80. With all the initial expense in starting brewing having your own mill just isn't worth the $0.75 you save in grain by getting 90% efficiency.
Sure once you start brewing more frequently and buying grain in bulk they're a godsend but starting out it's one more thing to worry about in a sometimes daunting process.

Having stable mash temps, proper mash thickness, no doughballs, and getting full conversion are at least as important as having optimal crush. You can certainly enhance conversion and improve lautering with a good crush but again unless something is wrong with the mill you shouldn't be below 70%. Maybe high 60s if your tun is poorly designed.