Last two batches my efficiency has suffered and Ive missed my OG by about .010. The main difference is Ive started using a chugged pump to vorlauf. I batch sparge. I cant imagine the pump would be the reason for the drop but Im not doing anything else differently. Any thoughts?
Efficiency drop since using pump?
- Thread starter Pintabone
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As long as you stir the mash well before vorlauf I can't imagine how a pump would lose 10 points in a batch sparge...
Not sure about your setup but typical pump and hoses emit heat and can lower your wort temp as liquid runs through it.
Although on a 5 minute vorlauf i cant see that being the issue. Are you doing recirc the whole time during mash? Maybe big temp drop in your brew rig? Just a guess
Although on a 5 minute vorlauf i cant see that being the issue. Are you doing recirc the whole time during mash? Maybe big temp drop in your brew rig? Just a guess
Have you measured the volume held in your new plumbing? Unless you can drain all of the wort out of the plumbing at each run-off, then it has the same effect on lowering lauter efficiency as MLT undrainable volume. However, I can't see this lowering your OG by 0.010, all else being equal. Can you provide more process details, and info on a typical grain bill, strike and sparge volumes, pre & post-boil volumes, OG, etc?
Brew on
Brew on
I know it is against accepted dogma but when I batch sparged I normally got better efficiency from a slow sparge. The actual issue might have been incomplete conversion which the slow sparge provided time to complete but whatever slower was higher efficiency. If you are using the pump to increase flow rate out of the cooler vs what you were getting before with gravity I think that you could be experiencing similar issue. Try slowing it down.
Either that, or you didn't stir well enough prior to each run-off to homogenize the wort completely.
Brew on
Pintabone
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I only run the pump during the mash to vorlauf. Otherwise it sits untouched for the full hour. I would probably let it run for anywhere from 5 - 10 minutes and generally at a pretty slow speed.
I haven't been stirring prior to vorlaufing so maybe that is the issue. I honestly don't remember if I had done that before getting the pump but was in the mid 70's on efficiency. The last two beers I've been in the mid 60's. Will definitely remember to stir it up next batch. Either way I'll drop the expected efficiency down a bit in BeerSmith so my OG isn't coming in so much lower than expected.
I haven't been stirring prior to vorlaufing so maybe that is the issue. I honestly don't remember if I had done that before getting the pump but was in the mid 70's on efficiency. The last two beers I've been in the mid 60's. Will definitely remember to stir it up next batch. Either way I'll drop the expected efficiency down a bit in BeerSmith so my OG isn't coming in so much lower than expected.
mashinary
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From a troubleshooting stance, check your crush. I had something like this happen a while back, and ultimately I realized the mill gap had started to slip.
That's crazy. My efficiency jumped to like 84% when I started using a pump. Is there a particular reason you're letting your mash sit for an hour and then only recirculating for 5-10 minutes? You'll increase your efficiency if you recirculate during the mash. My schedule is usually something like 10 minutes rest and recirculate for 5 over the course of the mash and my efficiency jumped 10 points and my clarity improved drastically. I basically treat mine like a RIMS without a coil. Works wonders.
BlkWater_brewer
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Key is keeping 1" of sparge water on top of the grain bed, never stir the grain (unless the grain to liquid ratio is massive) and I gravity feed into my vorlauf tank and only pump into the kettle as it fills. The only way a pump could affect it is if its pulling wort out too fast. I seldom if ever miss my og and then by little.
Smellyglove
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Are the grist sizes the same as "other beers"?
If you'd run the pump fulltime I could see it if you ran it at to high rate, but for just vorlauf? Nah, the extraction is pretty much done. There's another parameter tapping on your fiddle.
If you'd run the pump fulltime I could see it if you ran it at to high rate, but for just vorlauf? Nah, the extraction is pretty much done. There's another parameter tapping on your fiddle.
What was your mash temperature?
I recently had an issue with efficiency when our mash temp was too high due to a bad thermometer. It was reading 17 degrees too low. Our target temps were way over what we wanted. higher temps adversely effect conversion. I realized the problem when we had a boil over while using the same thermometer to monitor the kettle, it only read 195 degrees. We corrected the issue and efficiency went up. Good luck!
I recently had an issue with efficiency when our mash temp was too high due to a bad thermometer. It was reading 17 degrees too low. Our target temps were way over what we wanted. higher temps adversely effect conversion. I realized the problem when we had a boil over while using the same thermometer to monitor the kettle, it only read 195 degrees. We corrected the issue and efficiency went up. Good luck!
LarMoeCur
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We need more details to correctly trouble shoot. Are you running the pump wide open or throttled back? What is the design of your mash tun? Cooler with a bazooka tube? False bottle kettle? Mash and sparging procedures?
There's only about 1000 things and 1000 processes that can affect efficiency.
Pintabone
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I'm not blaming the pump, just asking the question. I can't imagine why it would go down from using it either but it seems like it may have been from forgetting the step of stirring after the mash to release the sugars from the grain. I would go straight to recirculating with the pump.
To answer the many questions posted above, I'm using a cooler with a false bottom. The grain bills of all the beers so far have been within a lb of each other probably so I can't imagine it has been that. The mash temps have been between 150 and 154 and doesn't seem like I've had a major issue with my thermometer. I don't run the pump with the pump valve wide open so I'm trying to control the flow back up top.
To answer the many questions posted above, I'm using a cooler with a false bottom. The grain bills of all the beers so far have been within a lb of each other probably so I can't imagine it has been that. The mash temps have been between 150 and 154 and doesn't seem like I've had a major issue with my thermometer. I don't run the pump with the pump valve wide open so I'm trying to control the flow back up top.
JacquesPerrault
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I'd tend to agree with three key points I've read so far: If I were a betting man, I'd bet was a slip in the grain mill - a set of feeler gauges makes it quick and easy - I check it every time. Always keep your grain bed under 1" of water. And I, personally, recirculate the mash for the entire schedule, with no stirring. I also add the grain in a few batches during mash-in to avoid "grain balls" - may be something else to watch for.
I agree, if you don't have a ball lock valve on the output side, get one and control the flow rate of your sparge. the pump is designed to handle the pressure built up behind the valve so no worries of burning it up.
AndrewduToit
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Are you sure your temperature was correct?
Here's what's happening..
Non pumped.. the drain is slow and towards the end of the drain, wort has time to drip all the way down to the bottom of the cooler and most of it drains out.
Pumped... the drain is faster and towards the end, the pump sucks air before the last of the wort drips down. You'll stop the pump and then within the next 60 seconds, another quart or so of wort will be at the bottom.
In a way, that fast draining is artificially increasing dead space. All you need to do is slow the pump down significantly when you have about 1/2 gallon left to drain.
Non pumped.. the drain is slow and towards the end of the drain, wort has time to drip all the way down to the bottom of the cooler and most of it drains out.
Pumped... the drain is faster and towards the end, the pump sucks air before the last of the wort drips down. You'll stop the pump and then within the next 60 seconds, another quart or so of wort will be at the bottom.
In a way, that fast draining is artificially increasing dead space. All you need to do is slow the pump down significantly when you have about 1/2 gallon left to drain.
I'll buy into that logic, once when batch sparging I let my cooler tun continue to drip drip for a half hour and collected a lot, like two quarts if I remember. A pump will suck air through the grain bed quickly while the grain is still saturated w/ a substantial quantity of wort.
Grain is like a saturated sponge, the majority drains quickly, but a lot continues to drain thereafter.
Grain is like a saturated sponge, the majority drains quickly, but a lot continues to drain thereafter.
Smellyglove
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On trick I've used before is to drain at a reaonable speed, when you hear the pump is running dry, shut it off. Start boil. Let the mash sit, then drain rest of it and add to boil
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