Slow is always better. I get by with s single stir at the beginning of the mash after all of the strike water is in. I do full volume mashes.
Dough In- Devices and techniques?
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I'm going to underlet for the first time tomorrow, I use beersmith3 and find that I have it dialed in with my system and grain temp and all that. So according to beersmith I want my strike water at 163f to hit my 152f target. I'm brewing a 15 gallon batch my grain weight is 30lb and my strike water volume is 10gal. Does this all sound good for using the underlet technique?
I do ten gallon batches, use BS3 as well, and have it calculate strike temperature for me based on my equipment profile, and measured MLT and grain temperatures. A 163°F strike temperature for a 152°F rest is in the range that I've used.
But whether underletting the strike, or adding grain to the strike or vice versa, BS3 doesn't know one method from the other, so that calculated strike temperature is agnostic and should apply regardless...
Cheers!
But whether underletting the strike, or adding grain to the strike or vice versa, BS3 doesn't know one method from the other, so that calculated strike temperature is agnostic and should apply regardless...
Cheers!
Are you taking into consideration the heat absorbed by the cold mash tun?
Good call, it was set st a default of 72f and my basement temp is 55f so made that adjustment and it changed my strike temp to 165f
I had to tweak my 13 gallon converted cooler mash tun's specific heat to 0.95 Cal/gram °C to end up with the correct mash temp when underletting. It sounds high but it works.
Well I brew on an eHERMS so if I come in a little low I'm not concerned ill just bump it up, it's a Czech premium that I'll be brewing but it's going to a competition so want to atleast be in the ballpark.
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I've underlet previously but prefer to have the water in the MT to start with so that the hoses are set up and the temperature of the MT is higher. I have an EHERMS keggle, which weighs 35.8 pounds (16.24 kg). I use a bucket and dump in the grain all at once. I don't want to try several times to hit the lip on the keggle, it's an annoying mess. I don't account for room temperature, my garage is unheated and typically cooler than the rest of the house as part of it is underground. I typically stir and wait five minutes for the temperature to equalize. I start stirring quick enough that I can tell the grain is still floating to degree. I have a large SS mash paddle and while I know what dough balls look like I barely seem to get any. I haven't kept a consistent track of whether I've been over or under but I would say there are times I know I have been over and turned off the pump to let the temperature drop but I turn the pump off immediately if I remember to. Because with an EHERMs, you have to do something to get the HLT temperature back down as well, I add cool water, usually a gallon of RO water. I don't know if the whole MT reaches the same temp throughout when heating the strike water. There is however, a significant amount of metal at or below the waterline in the MT and heat will transfer up the walls too. I could weigh a bottom cutoff from a keg. I think I have several in my yard. Beersmith uses 0.12 cal/g for one degree C. One could play around with how significant it might be to have some portion of the MT preheated by proportional reducing the weight of the MT in the equipment profile based on what proportion of the mass is expected to be preheated.
Well last night's brew went smoothly, my first underlet mash temp came in 2°f low which came up to target in a matter of minutes. But it's in my notes to adjust for next time. Hit my OG dead nuts on. Great feeling.
One question I have is for those that underlet, do you give it a couple minutes for the mash to absorb water before you stir? As in after you have transferred all the strike water, or once it's all in there do you stir right away.
One question I have is for those that underlet, do you give it a couple minutes for the mash to absorb water before you stir? As in after you have transferred all the strike water, or once it's all in there do you stir right away.
I stir right away because I am a low oxygen brewer and want to release all of the bubbles that get trapped in the grain bed.
I heat my strike volume in my BK (while the sparge liquor heats up in the HLT) and up to the BS3 prescribed strike temperature given the MLT and grain temperatures. Then I do the underlet strike, which takes a minute or so, then reconfigure the rig for the eventual mash recirculation, which takes another minute or two. After that I give the mash one good lifting stir to equalize the temperature from bottom to top, which takes maybe a minute. Finally I slowly start the recirculation while keeping an eye on the MLT's sight glass to avoid sticking the bed right at the jump.
A well-done underlet should push all the air out of the grain bed - it's the whole reason for underletting! Never any dough balls as well...
Cheers!
Great info, I did a similar thing but I can only heat one kettle at a time, so I started with 20gal of water heated that to 165, underlet with 10gal, topped my hlt back up to 20gal to cover my herms coil, gave the mash a quick stir at that point and I didn't notice any doughballs, a couple minutes later and my hlt was back up to temp and I started my recirc then. Very happy with this process and I will definitely be going this route moving forward. Shoulda started this years ago...
Edit: I do 15 gal batches, so that's why the volumes listed as such.
Cheers
Edit: I do 15 gal batches, so that's why the volumes listed as such.
Cheers
I do slow underlets and do see some bubbles when I stir. There are so many pockets in the grain where air can get trapped even with underletting. Not that it is a concern for everybody.
I just did 2 batches on my Klarstein AiO system... I haven't run too many batched through it yet, so I'm still tweaking my process. But for the first time, I "underlet" by heating my strike water then slowly lowering the grain in my bag-lined malt pipe into the kettle...
I didn't go glacially slow, just a gentle lowering at a consciously slow speed . The malt pipe on the Klarstein only has bottom perforations, so the water has to percolate up through the grain bed and can't come in through the sides like it could there were only a BIAB bag. I let it sit a minute or two to fully saturate, then gave a gentle stir... No doughballs.
This is probably my new dough-in method from now on.
I didn't go glacially slow, just a gentle lowering at a consciously slow speed . The malt pipe on the Klarstein only has bottom perforations, so the water has to percolate up through the grain bed and can't come in through the sides like it could there were only a BIAB bag. I let it sit a minute or two to fully saturate, then gave a gentle stir... No doughballs.
This is probably my new dough-in method from now on.
When I underlet, I do it at a relatively slow speed takes 3-5 minutes for 10lbs grain bill. I do not stir until the grain is fully covered and I've finished underletting. I give it a quick stir, let it rest for about 10 minutes, then start recirculating (RIMS).
There should not be any dough balls if you wait until the entire grain bed is covered with water. If you stir before this, you'll get dough balls or if you try to underlet too fast.
There should not be any dough balls if you wait until the entire grain bed is covered with water. If you stir before this, you'll get dough balls or if you try to underlet too fast.
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agentbud
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I had seen this question asked early on in this thread but didn't see an answer until your post. I use a Brewzilla so that is what my strike water is heated in and the mash is performed in. With the strike water already in the vessel, the only way I could see to underlet would be like you said - fill the grain basket while it is raised and then slowly lower it into the strike water. I would assume that accomplishes the same goal as pumping it in from the bottom? Other than reducing oxygen in the mash and reducing/eliminating doughballs, are then any other benefits of underletting?
One thought that comes to mind is that you don’t need to balance between pouring the grains and stirring, pouring more grains and stirring
Yeah, for a system like mine I almost need a second person to mash in, dumping 30+ pounds of grain in and stirring and such is tough to do solo. Underletting I can easily do by myself.
I’ve never tried to go slow while underletting. I just rock it in there and stir after I move hoses and such. Huge difference from the days of stirring grain into a filled MT. Now there’s no balls of grain. Brewing an Imp Stout this weekend for the Holiday season. It has been a long bit since my last huge stout. Only time I get to use straight tap!!
I do the same, but for me it doesn't work as slick as many claim: despite lowering the basket very slowly, the grain usually starts floating and the entire dry grainbed usually would float to the top of the malt pipe if I allowed it to. Also, I don't want the hotter water interacting with the little amount of grain it's in contact with for that long, so I usually just drop the basket in and start stirring so as to get everything to temp ASAP. It doesn't seem to work that well, but I continue to do it, as it's better than just dumping the grains into the basket already in the system with strike water in it. On bigger grainbills I still actually get dry spots, despite stirring what I think is a sufficient amount, often 2-3 times during a 60min mash.
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