Double/Imperial IPA feedback

[epateddy]

I'm on round 2 of this one and the results are still very sweet. And the hop aroma/flavor is (surprisingly) just not there. Possibly drowned out by the sweetness. Interested in group feedback.

13 lbs 2 Row
01 lbs White Wheat
01 lbs Crystal 90

90 min: 1 oz. Warrior
15 min: 1 oz. Apollo
15 min: 1 oz. Columbus
15 min: 1 oz. Glacier
10 min: 1 oz. Apollo
10 min: 1 oz. Columbus
10 min: 1 oz. Glacier
05 min: 2 lbs. Dextrose
05 min: 1 oz. Apollo
05 min: 1 oz. Columbus
05 min: 1 oz. Glacier
00 min: 1 oz. Apollo
00 min: 1 oz. Columbus
00 min: 1 oz. Glacier
Dry Hop (5 days): 1 oz. Apollo
Dry Hop (5 days): 1 oz. Columbus
Dry Hop (5 days): 1 oz. Glacier

Yeast: US-05
Mash: 150 degrees
Batch: 6 gallons
Boil: 8 gallons
OG: 1.089
FG: 1.014
ABV: 9.84%
IBU: 134

It's darker than I'd like, so I will probably use C45 next time. But I'm mainly concerned by the overwhelming sweetness.

Thoughts?

 

[g-star]

1lb of C90 is the culprit...I would eliminate the crystal malts entirely. You'll get plenty of malt character for a DIPA if you reach that target OG with base malt and sugar alone.

 

[BigMack]

I really don't think 6.5% of the grist being C90 would make a beer overwhelmingly sweet. I don't quite understand the campaign against any crystal malt usage at all. Granted, it may not be what you're going for in this beer.

You may have a water issue as I can't see how that hop schedule would get you a non existent hop flavor and aroma.

 

[epateddy]

Worth a shot I guess. Will likely do this one again without the C90 and see what I get. What's that saying? Only change one thing at at time?

 

[jammin]

Shift all those "late additions" to whirlpool and maybe move some to your 90min bittering addition if you really want the IBU's. Keep in mind, after you remove the crystal (which I totally support), the bitterness and hop character will be more pronounced so you might consider that in your final revision.

Double the dry hops too.

That's my 2 cents

 

[m00ps]

Im basically a broken record by now but, I keep seeing topics about a double IPA thats both sweet and has minimal hop character.

IMO, no double IPA should have crystal. Drop it alltogether and maybe expolore different yeast options

For the long rambling version of my advice see here
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/not-your-fathers-ipa-brewing-ipas.html

 

[kombat]

IPAs and Double IPAs are two of my favorite styles, I've brewed my share of them. Here's what I'd change in your recipe.

• As mentioned, that's way too much crystal. I understanding wanting a little colour in your beer, but that's a lot of unfermentables. I'm going to go against the grain here though, and instead of recommending cutting the Crystal entirely, I like to use 4 oz or so of a darker Crystal (I use Crystal 120 or Caraaroma). Get that same colour using less of a darker crystal.
• What's the wheat doing in there? If it's for body/head retention, I'd swap it out for Carapils or Carafoam. Wheat malt is smaller, and thus needs to be milled separately, complicating the process for little benefit. I love some nice Belgian lacing on my glasses, and 4-8 oz of Carafoam is more than enough.
• That hop bill. Man oh man. Maybe in a pale ale you could justify that kind of complexity, but in a Double IPA? Come on, this thing is going to overwhelm you with bitterness, hoppiness, and aroma. The subtleties between the 15 and 10 minute additions of Columbus, or the 5 and 0 minute additions of Apollo are going to be completely masked by the sheer volume of bitterness and hoppiness. Simplify. Warrior is the right call for bittering, but add it at 60, not 90. And honestly, if it were my beer, I'd move ALL of the remaining boil additions to flameout/whirlpool. That's right, I'd add all 12 oz at flameout and let them steep/whirlpool for 15-20 minutes. That will give you massive hop flavour.
• The dry hop. In a beer this big, 3 oz is not going to cut it, and you said yourself, you found the aroma lacking. If you want big hop aroma, you need to crank that dry hop way up. I would consider 6 oz as an absolute minimum for this beer. And add them after primary fermentation has finished, no earlier than 7-10 days, depending on how the yeast behaves. Leave them in for 5 days, then bottle/keg.
• US-05 yeast is fine, but with a beer this big, I hope you're using at least 2 packets, and rehydrating. Part of your sweetness problem could be overwhelmed yeast just crapping out early due to underpitching. And watch your temperatures, because with an OG this high, the yeast can easily get carried away and heat the beer up too much if it really gets going. Make sure you aerate well, too.

Hope this helps.

 

[epateddy]

Great feedback, folks. Much appreciated.

m00ps - I agree there are a lot of posters having this same issue. Could it be we're all following a traditional IPA recipe and just amping up the grains and hops to make a Double? Clearly not working for a lot of people and probably not the right approach.

Kombat - I like where you're taking this and will revise the recipe for round 3. (This one just got a lot more expensive.) Key question for me is what is the point of diminishing returns when it comes to late hop additions? Round 1 had 9.25 oz of hops on a similar schedule and that wasn't enough. Round 2 had 22 oz. of hops and that's STILL not enough for a 5 gallon batch of Double IPA? I was copy/paste happy in my previous post. Actual hop schedule was...

90 min: 1 oz. Warrior
15 min: 1 oz. Apollo
15 min: 1 oz. Columbus
15 min: 1 oz. Glacier
10 min: 1 oz. Apollo
10 min: 1 oz. Columbus
10 min: 1 oz. Glacier
05 min: 2 lbs. Dextrose
05 min: 1 oz. Apollo
05 min: 1 oz. Columbus
05 min: 1 oz. Glacier
00 min: 2 oz. Apollo
00 min: 2 oz. Columbus
00 min: 2 oz. Glacier
Dry Hop (5 days): 2 oz. Apollo
Dry Hop (5 days): 2 oz. Columbus
Dry Hop (5 days): 2 oz. Glacier

I'm tempted to eliminate (or drastically scale back the Crystal), and push every hop addition after 90 to flameout and see what happens. Is the prevailing thought to STILL add more dry hops?

Thanks again.

 

[ong]

I also just do a bittering addition at 60 to target the IBUs I want, and then everything else as whirlpool. Really great hops flavor that way.

 

[Redlantern]

New to this, but already wanting to get rid of crystal. 2oz dehusked carafa and turbinado or dextrose will give color without much flavor and dry things out as long as yeast is not under pitched. Also - aren't the higher lovebond crystal malts going to produce more unfermentable sugars?

 

[g-star]

Round 2 had 22 oz. of hops and that's STILL not enough for a 5 gallon batch of Double IPA?

22oz should be more than enough...this suggests a problem with your process.

Eliminate the crystal, use one boil addition to bitter, then move all of your flavor/aroma hops to the whirlpool/hopstand. Adding hops with 15, 10, 5 minutes left just boils off all of those aromatics you're trying to capture. Dry hop it twice over 4-6 days with several ounces at about 65F. That should get you a great DIPA.