Don't crush where you brew?

[cannman]

Learned that crushing inside where you brew is a great way to introduce lacto.b into your beer. So I'm going to crush OUTside...

BUT how anal can I get...?

How far from your brewing site do you think is sufficient? Around the corner? Anywhere outside as long as your brew area was closed when you milled? 30 feet away on a windless day? Etc.

What milling precautions should one take to not introduce any baddies into the day's brew?

 

[Jaybird]

Most all the breweries I visit have a separate room for milling because of dust but YES lacto is also a concern. That said, before I knew this was a problem I use to crush in the same area that I was brewing in ALL THE TIME and NEVER had a lacto infection. I think if you are mindful of it you will be fine. I think just outside is PROBABLY just fine.

Cheers
Jay

 

[sandyeggoxj]

I don't seperate my areas much at all. It is the same garage after all. No problems. Just don't be sloppy with sanitizing your fermenter. My fermenter usually stays pretty sealed.

 

[zachattack]

I mill/ferment in the basement and brew in the kitchen. I'm not worried about it. As long as you aren't milling a batch right next to an open fermenter or your post-boil wort in an open vessel I think it's fine. The dust settles fairly quickly.

 

[jekeane]

this is how I got my only infection as well. Definitely worthwhile to keep your milling away from cold side stuff in my opinion.

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

I didnt know this so this is helpful, although I havnt crushed in a while. My LHBS seems to have a pretty consistent grind, since they have their own brewery attached. Maybe in the future when I start buying in bulk again, I'll have to remember not to crush where I brew.

 

[milldoggy]

I crush next to where I brew and ferment. Never had a problem in 4 years. It is all about cleaning and sanitizing.

 

[milldoggy]

I should add that when I crush, I do turn on my brewing exhaust hood to create an air flow to pull the dust outside. And my mill is mounted on a cab, so the grain falls in a bucket behind a door, so it controls the dust

 

[Hello]

this is how I got my only infection as well. Definitely worthwhile to keep your milling away from cold side stuff in my opinion.

How did you narrow it down to crushing where you brew?

For me, I milled at the doorway in my garage (where I don't brew) until now. I will be milling outside my shed. If it's raining, I'll have to figure that one out. I HAVE to mill outside because it is the only way I am not completely destroyed by the dust. I can't even mill at my LHBS with the separate room and huge exhaust fan without issue. I am pretty deathly alergic to grain dust, as I found out when I began brewing. Doing it outside and basically keeping my head turned or holding my breath helps. If I'm not too lazy, I will put my mask on.

As for separation, I too heard it is good to keep things separate for risk of infection. On the other hand, if you're sanitizing everything touching the cold side of your wort then it should be okay.

 

[IslandLizard]

My grain is stored and weighed in the same area as I brew, rack, keg, handle yeast, make starters, ferment some beers, and clean equipment. I mill outside though.

Now adding the milled grain to the mash tun filled with strike water throws a lot of dust in the air, which undoubtedly settles everywhere in that area. That has always concerned me. Conceivably I could mash in outside then move the cooler mash tun to the brew area, to eliminate the dust, but it is a bit of a hassle.

I'm meticulous with cleaning and sanitation and only had an unintended infected starter once. That starter made a great lactic sour, later on!

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

Even though lacto is practically everywhere, even in our spit, your overthinking this. Make sure everything on the cold side of things is sanitized right before getting used and your good. Its also worth knowing that most types of lacto won't work in the presence of hops. So unless your using dirty gear or brewing 0 IBU beers RDWHAHB.

 

[IslandLizard]

I should add that when I crush, I do turn on my brewing exhaust hood to create an air flow to pull the dust outside. And my mill is mounted on a cab, so the grain falls in a bucket behind a door, so it controls the dust

So that dust settles in your hood and ducting, right over your kettles and chilled wort handling area. Do you clean that hood regularly?

 

[jekeane]

How did you narrow it down to crushing where you brew?

For me, I milled at the doorway in my garage (where I don't brew) until now. I will be milling outside my shed. If it's raining, I'll have to figure that one out. I HAVE to mill outside because it is the only way I am not completely destroyed by the dust. I can't even mill at my LHBS with the separate room and huge exhaust fan without issue. I am pretty deathly alergic to grain dust, as I found out when I began brewing. Doing it outside and basically keeping my head turned or holding my breath helps. If I'm not too lazy, I will put my mask on.

As for separation, I too heard it is good to keep things separate for risk of infection. On the other hand, if you're sanitizing everything touching the cold side of your wort then it should be okay.

It's fair to say that I can't be sure it was from milling. I did however mill within a breeze distance to my fermenter with an open garage door that day. I remember a breeze tossing a cloud of grain dust back in towards my equipment. All certainly could be coincidence.

I do feel that cleaning of fine grain dust from a fermenter is also probably more difficult than it sounds and milling away from cold side stuff should just be "best practice". I do store all my grain in the same space which I don't think its problematic as long as I'm not creating dust from transferring it around.

 

[schematix]

I crush in my garage and brew/ferment in the basement due to the dust. I am also highly allergic to the grain dust so i like to do it with the garage door open and with a dust mask. I dump the grains into the hot water with a mask on as well. If i don't do that i end up wheezing all day.

61 batches done in about 5 years and never had an infection.

 

[mongoose33]

My grain is stored and weighed in the same area as I brew, rack, keg, handle yeast, make starters, ferment some beers, and clean equipment. I mill outside though.

Now adding the milled grain to the mash tun filled with strike water throws a lot of dust in the air, which undoubtedly settles everywhere in that area. That has always concerned me. Conceivably I could mash in outside and move the cooler mash tun to the brew area, to eliminate the dust, but it is a bit of a hassle.

I'm meticulous with cleaning and sanitation and only had an unintended infected starter once. That starter made a great lactic sour, later on!

This^

When I'm doughing in, there's dust. This is done within 5 feet of where I rack the boil kettle into the fermentor. Crossing my fingers, at this point, but I've done six all-grains this way and no infections yet (knocking on wood).

I think I'll try to be more careful, but the time lag between doughing in and racking into the fermentor is a couple hours, and I do this with the garage doors open--so I'd think any dust that's airborne would eventually leave the garage, or settle.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

This^

When I'm doughing in, there's dust. This is done within 5 feet of where I rack the boil kettle into the fermentor. Crossing my fingers, at this point, but I've done six all-grains this way and no infections yet (knocking on wood).

I think I'll try to be more careful, but the time lag between doughing in and racking into the fermentor is a couple hours, and I do this with the garage doors open--so I'd think any dust that's airborne would eventually leave the garage, or settle.

BIAB everything is done in the same pot.Doughing in,racking everything.I wouldn't worry about it.Ive BIAB and never had a single infection.I also mill 20 ft away from where I brew,again never had an issue.Ive even used my fermenting bucket to mill the grain into and just wiped them down.That I thought was pushing it and use specific grain buckets now.

 

[TorMag]

Are you guys kidding? Now something else I have to worry about.....

 

[m00ps]

I crush, weigh grain, boil, chill, ferment, dry hop, everything withing a ~10ft radius of each other. I make sure to not open fermentors for sampling within a recent window from crushing grain due to the dust, but IME there is nothing that good sanitation practices cant help prevent. Ive starsaned visible grain dust off the top of buckets before to take readings without issue

 

[cannman]

While we do dust when we pour into the mash, I guess the idea is that if you still had particles in the air that lacto was riding, and the particles made it into the fermenter, you're done.

 

[milldoggy]

So that dust settles in your hood and ducting, right over your kettles and chilled wort handling area. Do you clean that hood regularly?

Nope, but a heck a lot of steam goes through it.

 

[atoughram]

Are you guys kidding? Now something else I have to worry about.....

or not....

 

[MerlinWerks]

For me, conditioning the grain prior to milling significantly reduces the amount of dust generated...

 

[cannman]

For me, conditioning the grain prior to milling significantly reduces the amount of dust generated...

Can you elaborate on what grain "conditioning" entails? 🤔

Wait found this

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Malt_Conditioning

 

[MerlinWerks]

Yep, that's it. The amount of water I use is 1.5% x grist weight, spray some on, mix and repeat. I like to let it sit 20-30 min after spraying before grinding. If you grind too soon or use too much water it will stick to your rollers. Sounds a bit fussy, but it is quite simple once you do it a couple times and I wouldn't mill without doing it now...

 

[cannman]

Yep, that's it. The amount of water I use is 1.5% x grist weight, spray some on, mix and repeat. I like to let it sit 20-30 min after spraying before grinding. If you grind too soon or use too much water it will stick to your rollers. Sounds a bit fussy, but it is quite simple once you do it a couple times and I wouldn't mill without doing it now...

I noticed in the link above the volume of condition grain is greater then dry grain. At the end of the day, do you find your condition grain to take the same amount of space in the kettle?

 

[MerlinWerks]

Sorry, never looked at that.

 

[kh54s10]

Geez... Sanitation... I have been milling my grains 3 ft from my fermenters for 5 years - no infections.......

 

[cannman]

Geez... Sanitation... I have been milling my grains 3 ft from my fermenters for 5 years - no infections.......

Sanitize all you want, you still can't fight the floating wild yeast and floating lacto :rockin:

 

[kh54s10]

Sanitize all you want, you still can't fight the floating wild yeast and floating lacto :rockin:

Then why sanitize at all?

 

[cannman]

Then why sanitize at all?

Thats silly

The point of the game is to mitigate as many chances for infections as possible without introducing unnecessary risk. Milling outside your brew area doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

 

[SwAMi75]

Thats silly

The point of the game is to mitigate as many chances for infections as possible without introducing unnecessary risk. Milling outside your brew area doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

Milling inside it is not a big deal as long as you clean and sanitize on the cold side before every use. Sanitizing is the ultimate mitigation of the chance of infection.

 

[cannman]

Milling inside it is not a big deal as long as you clean and sanitize on the cold side before every use. Sanitizing is the ultimate mitigation of the chance of infection.

What people are missing here may not be obvious to the home brewer who makes a batch, drinks a batch, and rebrews.

I have multiple vessels going at several times up to 6 carboys and 1 conical. If mill, particles are in the air. No matter how well I sanitize my current batch, if I decide to open a conical or carboy to take a reading, add hops, transfer, those airborne microbs can get into the beer and possibly ruin it.

Say it settles, the dust. Every time I walk in there I stir it back up!

So sanitation levels do not matter. If you're so bad-ass with your process, stop being lazy or unnecessarily stubborn and mill somewhere else.

Ya'll need a 200 level microbiology class...

 

[MaryB]

I ferment away from my brewing area so I don't see it as an issue... Only reason I mil outdoors is to keep the dust down for my allergies!

 

[Paps]

I allways thought it was the "explosion hazard" was the reason to mill away from where you brew and not about a possible lacto infection.

 

[TorMag]

For me, conditioning the grain prior to milling significantly reduces the amount of dust generated...

Do you think that conditioning can be done when using a corona mill?

 

[m00ps]

Do you think that conditioning can be done when using a corona mill?

Yeah, you just need a bucket or something to spray the grain with a bit of water and mix in. I usually let it sit for 15min or so before starting to mill

 

[djt17]

Do you think that conditioning can be done when using a corona mill?

I do; works fine.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

What people are missing here may not be obvious to the home brewer who makes a batch, drinks a batch, and rebrews.

I have multiple vessels going at several times up to 6 carboys and 1 conical. If mill, particles are in the air. No matter how well I sanitize my current batch, if I decide to open a conical or carboy to take a reading, add hops, transfer, those airborne microbs can get into the beer and possibly ruin it.

Say it settles, the dust. Every time I walk in there I stir it back up!

So sanitation levels do not matter. If you're so bad-ass with your process, stop being lazy or unnecessarily stubborn and mill somewhere else.

Ya'll need a 200 level microbiology class...

You do understand that whether you mill or not all that stuff is in the air anyways right? Just keep it simple...

1. Fill your carboy with sanitizer.
2. Have cold side gear soaking in sanitizer.
3. Wait until your about to use said gear to take it out of the sanitizer so everything stays clean.
4. ?
5. Profit

 

[Terek]

people get WAY too crazy with sanitizing everything. You will have no problem milling withing inches of your brew equipment. I brew, and do everything in a 10 foot by 8 foot brew room with no problems.

As far as all to "rules" they are way too anal. I keep all my stuff close together. I prep, brew, clean, and even smoke in my brew room. I clean my fermenter buckets with a scouring pad, and most of my buckets are over 2 years old. I wash my yeast with the star san i used to clean my kegs after transfer. I cool my wort outside on windy days with no lid. Pretty much every little anal thing people talk about, i ether ignore, or half ass. I have NEVER had an infected beer in 5 years of brewing. In my opinion, the only thing that i do is star san the fermenter before transfering, and the keg before transfering. I dont sprey out all the fittings on the kettle, or really anything. I make a quart of star san mix for most things. It makes a bottle last years.

You can be as hard core as you want, but it is really not that vital on such a small scale

 

[Terek]

What people are missing here may not be obvious to the home brewer who makes a batch, drinks a batch, and rebrews.

I have multiple vessels going at several times up to 6 carboys and 1 conical. If mill, particles are in the air. No matter how well I sanitize my current batch, if I decide to open a conical or carboy to take a reading, add hops, transfer, those airborne microbs can get into the beer and possibly ruin it.

Say it settles, the dust. Every time I walk in there I stir it back up!

So sanitation levels do not matter. If you're so bad-ass with your process, stop being lazy or unnecessarily stubborn and mill somewhere else.

Ya'll need a 200 level microbiology class...

I can see that being a problem. But the fact is that by the time you are dry hopping, or transfering, there is so much alcohol content in the beer, its not a great place for bacteria to live. Otherwise there would be a need to sanitize the hops before dry hopping. How much dust, dirt and micro buggies are on the outside of the hop pellets? Or even worse, whole cones?