diluting hydrometer sample???

[woozy]

I am seriously *hating* the waste of beer in taking hydrometer samples. (And don't tell me to use the ****ing tube the hydrometer came in, my hydrometer is 18 mm thick and the tube is 21 mm wide. That's only 1.5 mm clearance around the hydrometer bulb and that *always* affects the flow of liquid making accurate readings simply impossible.)

It takes 7 oz. to get an accurate reading and throwing away half a bottle of beer on a reading is simply disgusting.

So has anyone tried diluting the sample? Say, 1.5 oz of beer 4.5 oz of water and multiplying the gravity points by 4?

Or would that be simply way too inaccurate?

 

[CBMbrewer]

I suppose that would work.
I feel better about taking so many hydro readings by drinking them. Especially if fermentation is complete, its kind of like drinking off cask.

 

[gr8shandini]

I didn't do the math, but that seems like it would work. However, why not just get a refractometer? You only need a few drops to get a reading. The only caveat is that after pitching your yeast you need to do a correction based on the OG. But they're pretty good and will get you within a point. Definitely good enough to tell if you've reached FG or not. Then you can take a hydrometer reading if you like.

 

[woozy]

I suppose that would work.
I feel better about taking so many hydro readings by drinking them. Especially if fermentation is complete, its kind of like drinking off cask.

Every sample I drink now is bottled beer I *won't* be drinking later.

Thanks for trying to cheer me up, I do appreciate it, but if I wanted to drink room-temperature uncarbonated under-aged beer I'd drink straight from formenter and not ever bother with bottling.

 

[woozy]

I didn't do the math, but that seems like it would work. However, why not just get a refractometer?

Because they cost a hundred and twenty bucks.

 

[BansheeRider]

I am seriously *hating* the waste of beer in taking hydrometer samples. (And don't tell me to use the ****ing tube the hydrometer came in, my hydrometer is 18 mm thick and the tube is 21 mm wide. That's only 1.5 mm clearance around the hydrometer bulb and that *always* affects the flow of liquid making accurate readings simply impossible.)

It takes 7 oz. to get an accurate reading and throwing away half a bottle of beer on a reading is simply disgusting.

So has anyone tried diluting the sample? Say, 1.5 oz of beer 4.5 oz of water and multiplying the gravity points by 4?

Or would that be simply way too inaccurate?

When are you taking the samples? If you wait 3 weeks before taking a reading most likely you will only need to take 2 samples. That is not a lot of beer at all, and you can drink it.

 

[ICWiener]

Just quit taking so many readings! If I'm taking more than 3 total, I consider it meddling with my beer too much. One at pitching, one at 2,3, or 4 weeks (depending on the beer), and one at kegging/bottling.

I drink samples 2 and 3...waste not, want not.

 

[GrogNerd]

100 ml cylinder is only ¼ of a bottle

that would cut your waste in ½

refractometer like shandini says

OR, what I do... ferment for 3 weeks, take 1 hydrometer reading as FG and bottle

 

[CBMbrewer]

Every sample I drink now is bottled beer I *won't* be drinking later.

Thanks for trying to cheer me up, I do appreciate it, but if I wanted to drink room-temperature uncarbonated under-aged beer I'd drink straight from formenter and not ever bother with bottling.

After I take a reading I chill my sample and it really is lake drinking my beer of cask, just not-carbonated as apposed to very lightly carbonated. The point is you may not want to do that but if you have to, and since it is causing you grief you obviously have to do it enough, you might as well try and enjoy it.

 

[woozy]

I didn't do the math, but that seems like it would work.

The math is V1 * GP1 = V2 * GP2. So if my volume is four times the size, the gravity points will be four times as small.

The draw back is if my hydrometer is only accurate to 2 points, then it will now only be accurate to 8 points, which really isn't very good.

Maybe there are better hydrometers out there...

 

[CBMbrewer]

Every sample I drink now is bottled beer I *won't* be drinking later.

Thanks for trying to cheer me up, I do appreciate it, but if I wanted to drink room-temperature uncarbonated under-aged beer I'd drink straight from formenter and not ever bother with bottling.

After I take a reading I chill my sample and it really is lake drinking my beer of cask, just not-carbonated as apposed to very lightly carbonated. The point is you may not want to do that but if you have to, and since it is causing you grief you obviously have to do it enough, you might as well try and enjoy it.

 

[BansheeRider]

The math is V1 * GP1 = V2 * GP2. So if my volume is four times the size, the gravity points will be four times as small.

The draw back is if my hydrometer is only accurate to 2 points, then it will now only be accurate to 8 points, which really isn't very good.

Maybe there are better hydrometers out there...

Just take two samples after 3 weeks of fermentation and you're golden.

 

[woozy]

Just quit taking so many readings! If I'm taking more than 3 total, I consider it meddling with my beer too much.

3 readings is 21 oz. of beer wasted.

If you wait 3 weeks before taking a reading most likely you will only need to take 2 samples. That is not a lot of beer at all, and you can drink it.

Um, That's 14 oz or 1 1/6 bottle. I consider that a *hell* of a lot of beer.

100 ml cylinder is only ¼ of a bottle

that would cut your waste in ½

That would help. Where do you get one? Also if the tube were just 4 mm wider or the hydrometer 4 mm narrower that would help too.

 

[dcp27]

That's only 1.5 mm clearance around the hydrometer bulb and that *always* affects the flow of liquid making accurate readings simply impossible.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. whats the flow of liquid have anything to do with a gravity reading?

It takes 7 oz. to get an accurate reading and throwing away half a bottle of beer on a reading is simply disgusting.

Not sure what you're using, but it takes like 3-4oz for me

So has anyone tried diluting the sample? Say, 1.5 oz of beer 4.5 oz of water and multiplying the gravity points by 4? Or would that be simply way too inaccurate?

I wouldn't trust the accuracy unless you have a graduated cylinder to measure the volume

 

[woozy]

I usually take a sample when I think it's ready to bottle and then I take a sample three days later to see if it's stabilized. So for it always has been.

But as I said each sample is over half a bottle of beer and that **truly** pisses me off.

 

[ICWiener]

3 readings is 21 oz. of beer wasted.

Only because you're insisting on using the 7 oz. flask. I use a 4 oz. flask without any trouble. 12 oz of beer is not that big a deal. It's 51 bottles instead of 52 bottles...big whoop.

Or just use one of these:
http://www.brewgadgets.com/p-258-the-thief-by-fermtech.aspx?gclid=CIHO3IeRwbcCFcN_Qgod8SYAtQ

Sanitize it before hand and return your sample to the fermenter.

 

[GrogNerd]

3 readings is 21 oz. of beer wasted.



Um, That's 14 oz or 1 1/6 bottle. I consider that a *hell* of a lot of beer.



That would help. Where do you get one? Also if the tube were just 4 mm wider or the hydrometer 4 mm narrower that would help too.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0064O95S4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

can't say for certain how wide it is, but it works for me

 

[CUrchin]

Perhaps not considered the best practice because of infection risk, but you could take your measurement with a sanitized hydrometer in the fermenter if you are using a bucket.

 

[BansheeRider]

Um, That's 14 oz or 1 1/6 bottle. I consider that a *hell* of a lot of beer.

Damn what are you using to take samples?? That is a lot of beer and I don't know why you are taking large samples. My hydrometer needs very little beer to get a reading.

 

[Devin]

Because they cost a hundred and twenty bucks.

There are far cheaper units out there. I got a good one for $50. You can get them for even cheaper than that. You have to do a calculation on the final gravity reading, because the alcohol skews the readings, but it is not a big deal. I have compared the readings from my refractometer to my hydrometer and they are extremely close.

 

[pcollins]

An even cheaper refractometer is from ebay. I got mine for $25 to my door. It does just fine for reading most beers and the calculation post fermentation is not difficult, there are many online and one in BeerSmith.

If you're worried about the accuracy of the refractometer then don't do it or ask yourself if you really can tell the difference between a beer that is 1.054 OG vs 1.056.

The other thing you can do is brew a slightly larger volume to account for the loss of the nearly one bottle of beer for the hydro samples. I say it tongue in cheek but it's true. There are losses during brewing through transfers, cooling, absorption, samples, etc., accept them and brew enough to cover the losses.

Or... drink the samples.

 

[woozy]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. whats the flow of liquid have anything to do with a gravity reading?

If the liquid can not flow freely around the hydrometer then the hydrometer can not float freely. i.e. it creates its own pressure and gives a "sticky" reading. If I drop the hydrometer and let it fall to its floating point the reading will be 5 to 10 points higher then if I push the hydrometer down and let it bob up to its floating point. Spinning reduces the discrepency but not by enough.

If you pump your hydrometer in a narrow tube of liquid you will feel resistance and if you feel resistance then your reading will never be accurate. This is how turbines work and you do *not* want your hydrometer to act like a turbine. It needs to flow freely in the liquid and it can not do that if the water needs to narrow to a 1.5 mm passage for the 10 centimeter length of the hydrometer's bulb. (Bernoulli...)

Maybe you are all lucky and you have narrower hydrometers in tubes that are wider than mine. But my tube is only 3 mm wider than my hydrometer.

I wouldn't trust the accuracy unless you have a graduated cylinder to measure the volume

Well was obviously going to measure it with a measuring cup capible of accurately measuring 1/2 an ounce.

 

[woozy]

Perhaps not considered the best practice because of infection risk, but you could take your measurement with a sanitized hydrometer in the fermenter if you are using a bucket.

I was putting my samples back until I got an infection. I'm *not* using a bucket. And I'm brewing 2 gallon batches so losing a couple bottles of beer is more significant than if I were brewing 5. I mean, I know it's not a huge deal but ... my god ... is it *galling*. It just ... bugs me.

I'm using a standard hydrometer and jar. Jar is 10" tall and 1 1/2 inches wide and holds less than 8 oz. The hydrometer displaces a bit over half an oz. and thus a sample is about 7 oz.

Hmmm. The tube my sample taker came in seems to be a fraction of bit wider than the tube my hydrometer came in. Miniscule difference but enough that the drag of pumping my hydrometer up and down is significantly less. Only trouble is it's got some pink packing foam at the bottom. Shouldn't effect the reading but ... makes tasting less enjoyable. Will get nasty if I can't clean it.

 

[kh54s10]

I also don't think my testing tube uses anywhere near as much as the OP states. I usually only take 2 samples. I take an OG and FG. If the FG is as predicted and I have done a 3 week primary I assume it is done. I have not had any problems doing this. At worst this is no more than one bottle, and I don't consider it wasted.

 

[gr8shandini]

Because they cost a hundred and twenty bucks.

Or just 20

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-ECONO...837?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564a597015

 

[GrogNerd]

think someone mentioned that your final option would be to start with extra water, up the grain bill to make those hydro samples accounted for into your entire process.

 

[gatorforty]

Would be relatively easy to test. First test the straight beer sample, then the diluted sample and compare. I would bet as long as the solutions are completely blended, you would get pretty accurate results.

 

[TylerGuy]

The math is V1 * GP1 = V2 * GP2. So if my volume is four times the size, the gravity points will be four times as small.

The draw back is if my hydrometer is only accurate to 2 points, then it will now only be accurate to 8 points, which really isn't very good.

Maybe there are better hydrometers out there...

this formula will only work if the reading scale is linear. it may work in the form of a parobla of it could be inversly proportaional. i dont realy have the answer but you would need to read up on buoyancy and the affections on the solvent containing more/less solute.

 

[Clonefan94]

Why not just use a wine thief? I used to use one fairly regularly. Just sanitize it and your hydrometer, then you can drain the beer right back where it came from when you are done. The thing works great and you can take your reading from inside the thief.

I have since switched to brewing 6 gallong batches, so losing a few ounces here and there to gravity testing and taste testing really doesn't bother me anymore. I still end up with at least 5 gallons to fill my kegs with.

 

[woozy]

this formula will only work if the reading scale is linear. it may work in the form of a parobla of it could be inversly proportaional. i dont realy have the answer but you would need to read up on buoyancy and the affections on the solvent containing more/less solute.

Huh? What reading scale? The hydrometer will give me a single point (not a line; not a parabola) gravity of the solution it's floating in.

Or are you talking about the derivation of the formula v1*g1 = v2 * g2? That formula is well known and used for calculating original gravity pre-boil and post top-offs all the time. (It uses the gravity *points* and not the gravity.) It *is* linear and has been verified by many people before me.

Why not just use a wine thief? I used to use one fairly regularly. Just sanitize it and your hydrometer, then you can drain the beer right back where it came from when you are done.

Well, the whole assumption is that that isn't sanitary enough. People have a *fit* when you tell them you put your sample back.

Doesn't matter if the only infection you had occurred *before* you ever took any samples whatsoever. The fact that you were *intending* to put your sample back must have been what caused it.
=========

Anyway, I just needed to vent. I'm okay when my two gallon batch makes over 18 bottles. It's just when it makes 16 1/2 that these sample chiseling really gets under my skin.

(I'm also on a bad roll where my last four batches have all gone frustratingly and trivially off course. It's times like that when I find 8 oz. hydrometer jars and 21 mm. packing tubes to be the bane of human existence.)

 

[GrogNerd]

Anyway, I just needed to vent. I'm okay when my two gallon batch makes over 18 bottles. It's just when it makes 16 1/2 that these sample chiseling really gets under my skin.

(I'm also on a bad roll where my last four batches have all gone frustratingly and trivially off course. It's times like that when I find 8 oz. hydrometer jars and 21 mm. packing tubes to be the bane of human existence.)

I read somewhere to relax & don't worry

I'll have to find the reference

 

[andy6026]

Then don't take samples. Let it ferment until you're confident that it's done and then drop your sanitized hydrometer into the bottling bucket if you want to confirm just to be sure before bottling. I suppose there's still a chance of BBs, but sounds like wasting samples really grinds your gears.