Deciding what equipment and what kind of brewing to start with

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vance

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I've been researching and reading for a few months now while I put off actually buying anything and brewing - partly because of money, partly because I was planning to move to a new apartment (which I did last weekend). Now that the move is done and I have money, I'm ready to start brewing, but I still don't know what I want to do.

My original plan was to do ~3 gallon BIAB batches, starting off with something like a simple SMaSH. However, upon moving in I realized my apartment has an old electric, glass top stove, which means I don't know if I can boil about 4.5 gallons of water in any reasonable amount of time. Now I'm having second thoughts on BIAB... I could get a propane burner or something, but my space is rather limited and I'm on a bit of a budget to start out. I could do extract, or extract + grains, which is probably what I'm going to do, but I was really looking forward to getting to experiment with types of malt.

Is there a time and cost effective way to do BIAB with my stove limitations?
 
Do you happen to know the wattage of the burners on your stove? May have it on a label or if you can find a model # could look it up. I used an old electric coil stove and was doing 5 gallon boils. It takes awhile to get up to a boil but it worked. You could still do BIAB I'd say, just more time will be taken from the boils.
 
Do you happen to know the wattage of the burners on your stove? May have it on a label or if you can find a model # could look it up. I used an old electric coil stove and was doing 5 gallon boils. It takes awhile to get up to a boil but it worked. You could still do BIAB I'd say, just more time will be taken from the boils.

I don't off the tip of my head, I'll swing by today and check. I wouldn't be as worried on a coil stove, but the glass stoves I've used in the past were a pain to cook on.
 
Yea, I haven't had much experience with those ones. If its using an old form of induction burners, depending on the wattage you may be floating around the same as a coil stove. But once you find out the info on it you can compare it.
 
You could also use a smaller heat stick to get up to a boil and then only rely on the stovetop to maintain it.
 
IF you have the room, even if its "tight" I'd save up for another month if you needed too and Id go propane burner and 10 gallon pot min. and go all grain right out the gate, rather that's BIAB or cooler MLT. As long as you have an exterior back or front porch your golden, access to a garage even better. If you only have a balcony Id think 101 times before brewing on it..If you had an accident someone below could be severely injured or worse. If non of those options exist your pretty much stuck on the stove top.

Around 200.00 to 250.00 your in business with burner, pot, BIAB or Cooler MLT. ( less hydrometer and ancillary crap that is)

Steam indoors is going to be an issue in most apartments not to mention other things you already have...Also its nice even for BIAB to be working at knee to thigh level and not waist to chest level, even for 3 gallon batches.

But Welcome Aboard!....and get brewing no mater what direction/limitation dictates you. :)
 
I have a small back porch, I might be able to brew back there but I'd rather do it inside, especially as winter approaches (no garage).

200-250 wouldn't get me everything I need though, right? Not to do propane. I'm looking at about 250-300 to get everything I need to do BIAB on a stovetop.
 
1)Propane burner 50.00 brand new...look on Craigslist..my bud just bought aluminum crab pot and burner for 25.00

2) 10 gallon SS Pot 95.00 brand new with SS ball valve. Bayou classic from Amazon. Free shipping with prime ( if you dont have prime ask around, one of your friends does)

3)Cooler 42.00 brand new @ Walmart 70 Quart Colman extreme ( You dont need one that big yet) so even cheaper for you.

4)Bazooka screen, bulk head fitting and SS valve for cooler..35.00 LHBS or online. A quality custom purpose built BIAB will be no more expensive or any cheaper then the cooler and screen/valve...so your choice...I like the ease, safety and versatility of a cooler. YMMV

Total 222.00

Hydrometer..8.00
Hydrometer vile 8.00 (nice but not absolutely necessary)
Digital thermometer 8.00 to 12.00
Bucket fermentor 15.00 (add 6.00 spigot and you can forgo buying a siphon and use it as a botteling bucket as well.) Nice to have two buckets but you can use your pot ( with valve) as a bottling bucket if your short 20.00 for a second bucket.
Air lock 4.00
large paddle or spoon.. 0 to 10.00 (improvise)

FWIW.. I brew outside in 19 degree weather...just bring your mash tun inside for the hour your mashing..makes the house smell great anyway.
 
1)Propane burner 50.00 brand new...look on Craigslist..my bud just bought aluminum crab pot and burner for 25.00

2) 10 gallon SS Pot 95.00 brand new with SS ball valve. Bayou classic from Amazon. Free shipping with prime ( if you dont have prime ask around, one of your friends does)

3)Cooler 42.00 brand new @ Walmart 70 Quart Colman extreme ( You dont need one that big yet) so even cheaper for you.

4)Bazooka screen, bulk head fitting and SS valve for cooler..35.00 LHBS or online. A quality custom purpose built BIAB will be no more expensive or any cheaper then the cooler and screen/valve...so your choice...I like the ease, safety and versatility of a cooler. YMMV

Total 222.00

Hydrometer..8.00
Hydrometer vile 8.00 (nice but not absolutely necessary)
Digital thermometer 8.00 to 12.00
Bucket fermentor 15.00 (add 6.00 spigot and you can forgo buying a siphon and use it as a botteling bucket as well.) Nice to have two buckets but you can use your pot ( with valve) as a bottling bucket if your short 20.00 for a second bucket.
Air lock 4.00
large paddle or spoon.. 0 to 10.00 (improvise)

FWIW.. I brew outside in 19 degree weather...just bring your mash tun inside for the hour your mashing..makes the house smell great anyway.

I agree with this list and this is more or less what I have.
Propane burner speeds things up dramatically. 70Qt cooler means you have room to make big beer 10G all-grain batches (like 10G or 10% ABV+), or 15G or 7-8% ABV beers.

But if space/money is an issue, having a very simple BiB setup with nylon bag and a large pot, may be another way to go.
 
As far as the stove top, you probably have two large burners and two small ones. If so, you can always divide your boil into two separate containers. Just a thought.
 
As far as the stove top, you probably have two large burners and two small ones. If so, you can always divide your boil into two separate containers. Just a thought.

Minimalistic approach: use the pots you have, the stove you have, brew extract only, use buckets for fermentation, never measure gravity or fermentation temperature, bottle. Try boiling 4.5G in a pot on your electric stove and see how long it takes you. My stove (and my side-burner on the grill) took forever, so I got a dedicated propane burner after a few batches.

My first step would be going all-grain - so BIAB or dedicated mash tun. I think either one is fine, I still like a dedicated mashtun which also doubles as a regular large cooler for parties and trips and stuff. It also allows you to pour some hot water, throw the grains in, and walk away for an hour or three - or even mash overnight - the cooler insulation will keep temperature constant. Whereas BIAB will require some constant monitoring. Mashtun cost is under $100 including all parts.

I also think 5G batches are the way to go. I do 10G or even 15G batches now (just split them and add different additions or yeast) but to me 3G or 1G is a bit too far on "hours of work per amount of beer brewed" scale.

5G may be a sweet spot. The 5G fermenters are about the same price as 3G fermenters and can be found more commonly. I would go with 8G+ pot for 5G batches.

Then I would get a propane burner. It will really speed things alone, especially for 5G or larger batches. $50-60 would get you a nice one.

How are you chilling your wort? Large batches may require immersion chiller or something fancier. I like immersion chiller option because it's effective and easy to clean. But it takes some space and will cost you $100-120 for 25ft one, or you can easily make your own out of copper tubing (better one - 50 ft for about $50). Copper is getting expensive though.

After that, I would invest in fermentation temperature control. The simplest and most effective solution is a small freezer with temperature controller. That's maybe $120-$150. But it also requires space. You can do swamp cooler/ice bath to some extent as even cheaper way that is more limited and requires some attention.

The next step is probably yeast health. Make yeast starter and start your own yeast bank.

The step after that is replacing bottling with kegging. If you want to serve many beers at once, it can add up. Another freezer with temp-control, CO2 tank, regulators, manifolds, gas lines, beer lines, kegs, faucets, Nitrogen tank, disconnects, beer gun - it adds up. I think about 75% of my beer making "investment" is spent on the cold side of brewing (some fermentation, but mostly serving). Small items but they add up quickly - in my case about $2K in kegging equipment - but it is still worth it as I can scale up to bigger batches and brew more often.

Also, I would definitely invest in a hydrometer or a refractometer. It's like $20, but it prevents you from making a lot of mistakes and gives you some indication of what's going on with a beer. I really don't understand people (some are my best friends) who don't ever measure gravity - or temperature. It's a no-brainer. You also need a decent thermometer but you may already have one for cooking.

So typical progression in my opinion:
upgrade to 5G batches -> immersion chiller -> All Grain -> propane burner -> yeast health -> fermentation temperature -> kegging.

After that you have a lot of fancy stuff that doesn't make as much difference in my opinion (diminishing returns) - but it does look and feel nice. Like stainless steel conical fermentors, automatic brewing, electric brewing, etc. Cost escalate but they only save a small amount of time and make very little difference on the quality. You can make a great beer with $100 of equipment and you can make a terrible one with $10,000 of equipment.
 
1)Propane burner 50.00 brand new...look on Craigslist..my bud just bought aluminum crab pot and burner for 25.00

2) 10 gallon SS Pot 95.00 brand new with SS ball valve. Bayou classic from Amazon. Free shipping with prime ( if you dont have prime ask around, one of your friends does)

3)Cooler 42.00 brand new @ Walmart 70 Quart Colman extreme ( You dont need one that big yet) so even cheaper for you.

4)Bazooka screen, bulk head fitting and SS valve for cooler..35.00 LHBS or online. A quality custom purpose built BIAB will be no more expensive or any cheaper then the cooler and screen/valve...so your choice...I like the ease, safety and versatility of a cooler. YMMV

Total 222.00

Hydrometer..8.00
Hydrometer vile 8.00 (nice but not absolutely necessary)
Digital thermometer 8.00 to 12.00
Bucket fermentor 15.00 (add 6.00 spigot and you can forgo buying a siphon and use it as a botteling bucket as well.) Nice to have two buckets but you can use your pot ( with valve) as a bottling bucket if your short 20.00 for a second bucket.
Air lock 4.00
large paddle or spoon.. 0 to 10.00 (improvise)

FWIW.. I brew outside in 19 degree weather...just bring your mash tun inside for the hour your mashing..makes the house smell great anyway.

What exactly is the cooler for? My understanding of BIAB is that I would mash in the kettle and thus not need a mash tun.

Regardless, all the other extra bits add up quickly. I was planning on 250-300 dollars to do my first brew without a propane burner or mash tun.
 
Try boiling on your stove before getting a lot of unnecessary equipment. I do 3 gallons on electric glass stovetop no problem. I don't think it takes more than 10 minutes to get boiling on the big burner, and it could easily be less if I split into two pots.
 
I have a glass top stove and can pretty easily boil 4 gallons. I have a 30 qt aluminum turkey fryer pot. BIAB, it is possible but a PITA.

Check with your landlord before investing in a propane burner. Many won't allow their use.

As far as the cost, you should be able to get all you need for 5 gallon BIAB for about $200 - $250. Then to get what you will want it will be $2000 - $10,000 +!!
 
Minimalistic approach: use the pots you have, the stove you have, brew extract only, use buckets for fermentation, never measure gravity or fermentation temperature, bottle. Try boiling 4.5G in a pot on your electric stove and see how long it takes you. My stove (and my side-burner on the grill) took forever, so I got a dedicated propane burner after a few batches.

My first step would be going all-grain -

I have posted about this before. In hindsight, I certainly wish I did. It would have saved me a bunch. I was just trying to help him out getting started in his new addiction. Once he makes a decent beer on an outdated stove top he will realize what he is capable of.
 
I have posted about this before. In hindsight, I certainly wish I did. It would have saved me a bunch. I was just trying to help him out getting started in his new addiction. Once he makes a decent beer on an outdated stove top he will realize what he is capable of.

I agree with you - I think the stove option is something to explore. I was banned from boiling wort in the kitchen by SWMBO early on, so I was off to boiling water on side burner on my grill and then propane burner. But I did boil 5G of water for mashing on our electric stove - and it took more than an hour (or maybe it just felt like it) - on my propane stove it takes 15min, plus $3 in propane. Worth it.
 
I have posted about this before. In hindsight, I certainly wish I did. It would have saved me a bunch. I was just trying to help him out getting started in his new addiction. Once he makes a decent beer on an outdated stove top he will realize what he is capable of.

I agree with you - I think the stove option is something to explore. I was banned from boiling wort in the kitchen by SWMBO early on, so I was off to boiling water on side burner on my grill and then propane burner. But I did boil 5G of water for mashing on our electric stove - and it took more than an hour (or maybe it just felt like it) - on my propane stove it takes 15min, plus $3 in propane. Worth it.
 
I do need to check with my landlord on the propane burner... ****, the temptation to go all out is way too strong. I have literally nothing right now (no kettle, etc) so no matter what I choose to start with I'm definitely going to be buying everything. Extract recipes are the simplest, obviously, but I love experimenting and messing around with ingredients and not being able to choose my base grains (being stuck with only LME or DME) seems really unappealing.

I doubt I'll last till the end of the month with bottling honestly, but I generally like the order of upgrades you mentioned.
 
What exactly is the cooler for? My understanding of BIAB is that I would mash in the kettle and thus not need a mash tun.

Regardless, all the other extra bits add up quickly. I was planning on 250-300 dollars to do my first brew without a propane burner or mash tun.

Re-read #4..... the direction/path choice is yours, but its about the same money for a good bag & pulley system if you choose that route. Nothing wrong with BIAB I use to do it. Its not my cup of tea as I started 5.5 gallon batches right from the get go and have moved on since then to 11. To much weight and to dangerous.

Do what you want Mate ..this is my minimum advice to anyone starting out no mater who they are ...IMO its inappropriate to recommend anything less as most beginning brewers out grow their initial purchase within a few brews and end up upgrading anyway, costing even more money then doing this out the gate.. If you Know, that you Know your going to be happy with small batches on your stove top then fine, go that route or if its absolutely the only option you have, then you must do what you have to do. I was just presenting another option you didn't fully consider is all. And it doesn't take up all that much more room or really coat any more money. I bet you can even find a free cooler to convert out there.


Carry on.
 
Ah, gotcha. Why do people use coolers when doing BIAB? My understanding was that part of the point of using the bag was so you didn't need a cooler, or to do any sparging, but it seems like a lot of people do that anyways.
 
Ah, gotcha. Why do people use coolers when doing BIAB? My understanding was that part of the point of using the bag was so you didn't need a cooler, or to do any sparging, but it seems like a lot of people do that anyways.

you're describing single vessel BIAB (which seems most common). Some people still use a bag to make sparging a one-step easy process then transfer to a boil kettle
 
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