cryo hops/lupulin powder dry hopping question

[Sbe2]

3. Not a CryoHop beer, but I made a NEIPA with all Nelson Sauvignon hops. 4oz whirlpool addition, 4oz dry hop addition planned.

~Adam

I think I just had a mouth orgasm

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Tried an APA hombrew with mosaic cryo hops last week. Holy mother of flavor, and only 1 oz in the dry hop!

 

[Schlenkerla]

I think I just had a mouth orgasm

Puke of joy?

 

[Creative_Juicez]

I just kegged a batch using the Equanot LUPULN2 Cryo hops. I added 1/2 oz. at flameout, then another 1/2 oz. at below 180. Dry hopped with another ounce at High Krausen, and then kegged and added 2 more oz.

I tasted it last night after 2 full days in the keg- it's still pretty young, but the hop character is present for sure. Nice bitterness, a little bit of spiciness, and maybe some melon coming through. Hopefully I didn't over-do it with these hops. The first couple oz. were free samples from a pro brewer in town.

 

[bierhaus15]

I've used Cryohops for a while now, both professionally and as a home brewer. First, while the "cryo" product is nice, you can basically get the same thing from a T45 pellet for substantially less cost. Whether or not you can find T45 varietal specific pellets is another story.

Overall, the cryo/powder does impart a strong hoppiness, although it tends to come across as resinous and pine/dank. "Raw hoppiness" is a good descriptor. Comparing cryo to t90 of the same variety, the t90 is more rounded/fruity, with the cryo stronger/resinous. In sensory, people actually preferred t90 hops over cryo in terms of aroma/flavor, although a blend of the two was the best.

I am of the opinion that using cryo outside of whirlpool/DH is a waste. Usage rate is generally 1/2 amount of T90 hops. Interestingly, there was little gain in hop oils using cryo past 1 lb/bbl, tested via GCMS.

Some people have mentioned the difficulty of getting the cryo/powder to dissolve in their beer. This is often a problem and the product does very well with re-circulation. This is hard to do for home brewers, but on the pro side it works great and the benefits are greatly increased hop aroma/flavor (2-3X!) over static or periodically 'roused' dry hopping.

So... use cryo at approx 1/2 the amount of pellets and blend with regular whole leaf/pellets. Use mainly in whirlpool (reduced temps) and dry hopping, recirculate for a short period at warm temps if possible.

 

[Cman123]

I just used them and am very impressed

 

[microbusbrewery]

So... use cryo at approx 1/2 the amount of pellets and blend with regular whole leaf/pellets. Use mainly in whirlpool (reduced temps) and dry hopping, recirculate for a short period at warm temps if possible.

Awesome info bierhaus. Kind of on a related note, I bought a Blichmann QuickCarb on a whim about a week ago. I really had no plan to buy one but I was talking with the guys at one of our LHBS about it and they were commenting about how nice it was to be able to carb and drink hop-focused beers as fresh as possible. That got me to thinking... could the QuickCarb be used in conjunction with cryo hops to add significant aroma/flavor during the carb process. Seems like it should work, but I'm wondering if the powder will clog in the posts/disconnects...or is it fine enough that it will flow right through? Has anybody tried this yet? I have an APA and an IPA that I'm planning on carbing in the next week that I was thinking of trying this on. Assuming it doesn't clog, do you (bierhouse) think an hour or two if recirculation is enough time to extract a decent amount of extra flavor/aroma?

 

[Sbe2]

Puke of joy?

That feeling you get when your mouth gets watery and you smack the roof of your mouth with your tongue....Don't know how else to describe it without ya know....i will stop

 

[phishheadmi]

I've used the pelletized version a couple of times now, with no problems...they seem to sink as well or better than standard pellets.

I have that citra smash cold crashing now, will probably keg tonight or tomorrow. I did two, one-ounce cryo citra dry hop additions. The gravity sample smelled and tasted great...can't wait to get it carbed up!

Also, have in the fermenter right now, a Deschutes fresh squeezed inspired IPA that used cryo citra and mosaic for the late additions and will use more cryo citra for the dry hop.

 

[phishheadmi]

Damn, I wish I'd bought more of this stuff when Williams had it on sale recently!

Just polished off that Citra SMASH keg and it was pretty amazing. Citra aroma and flavor was off the charts...no harsh or grassy flavors.

I only have one oz of the citra left, wish I had at least two for the IPA I have wrapping up primary right now. I guess I'll have to hit it with an oz of the cryo and maybe a couple oz of regular citra.

I'm in a bit of a time crunch, I'd like to dry hope and carb at the same time. Has anyone dry hopped with cryo pellets in a keg? I have a fine mesh hop sock, wondering if I could dry hop in that, in a keg without having to transfer to another keg for serving.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Damn, I wish I'd bought more of this stuff when Williams had it on sale recently!

Just polished off that Citra SMASH keg and it was pretty amazing. Citra aroma and flavor was off the charts...no harsh or grassy flavors.

I only have one oz of the citra left, wish I had at least two for the IPA I have wrapping up primary right now. I guess I'll have to hit it with an oz of the cryo and maybe a couple oz of regular citra.

I'm in a bit of a time crunch, I'd like to dry hope and carb at the same time. Has anyone dry hopped with cryo pellets in a keg? I have a fine mesh hop sock, wondering if I could dry hop in that, in a keg without having to transfer to another keg for serving.

I think early on somebody said they used a pantyhose stocking.

I'd fill the toe/foot and tie it off, clip it with scissors, drop it into your keg and then gas the sucker.

Some have said whirl pooling is the best for this hop.

If you have a French coffee press make a cryo tea. Boil some water, add the hops to the press, add water, stir well, then steep them for 10-15 minutes, at then end of the steep, plunge and pour that into a keg.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Awesome info bierhaus. Kind of on a related note, I bought a Blichmann QuickCarb on a whim about a week ago. I really had no plan to buy one but I was talking with the guys at one of our LHBS about it and they were commenting about how nice it was to be able to carb and drink hop-focused beers as fresh as possible. That got me to thinking... could the QuickCarb be used in conjunction with cryo hops to add significant aroma/flavor during the carb process. Seems like it should work, but I'm wondering if the powder will clog in the posts/disconnects...or is it fine enough that it will flow right through? Has anybody tried this yet? I have an APA and an IPA that I'm planning on carbing in the next week that I was thinking of trying this on. Assuming it doesn't clog, do you (bierhouse) think an hour or two if recirculation is enough time to extract a decent amount of extra flavor/aroma?

You can do that with the quick carb but very vary careful of oxidizing. You should purge that keg very well and rack under pressure if you can. Just a bit of o2 could be a real challenge with this process. You don't want to oxidize the beer.

 

[Sbe2]

If you have a French coffee press make a cryo tea. Boil some water, add the hops to the press, add water, stir well, then steep them for 10-15 minutes, at then end of the steep, plunge and pour that into a keg.

I loved this idea when I was bottling. My plan was to add the hop tea to my bottling bucket, and add beer on top of it to from the primary.

But I now keg, and wonder how one can do this while doing a closed transfer?

 

[Schlenkerla]

I loved this idea when I was bottling. My plan was to add the hop tea to my bottling bucket, and add beer on top of it to from the primary.

But I now keg, and wonder how one can do this while doing a closed transfer?

I have been brewing for a long time. I don't worry about oxidation, but I don't splash either. I would just pour that into the keg and then transfer on top of it and call it done. The worry of oxidation is like yeast autolysis was in the 80's. Its possible but not an issue at the home brewers level. I don't brew the same beer twice in a year. If I did, i don't have temp control in order to have it be consistent. I do select the right yeast for the season. My $0.02

 

[thehaze]

I loved this idea when I was bottling. My plan was to add the hop tea to my bottling bucket, and add beer on top of it to from the primary.

But I now keg, and wonder how one can do this while doing a closed transfer?

How much hops would you use for say 5-5.5 gallons of beer when bottling? I also think of making hop tea and mixing it with the priming sugar and transfer the beer on top of it and bottle.

Would the hop tea oxidise or actually give the beer more aroma and possibly favour?

 

[Sbe2]

How much hops would you use for say 5-5.5 gallons of beer when bottling? I also think of making hop tea and mixing it with the priming sugar and transfer the beer on top of it and bottle.

Would the hop tea oxidise or actually give the beer more aroma and possibly favour?

People are saying that the Cryo hops are potent, so I would make the hop tea with only an ounce. Especially if they are $5/oz and only experimenting. If using pellets, I was thinking of using around 2-3 oz. But, I don't know how many oz a 8 cup French press would hold, so I would have prolly gone with 2.

When I bottled I thought I was oxidizing my IPAs. After a month, the last 12 or so beers, the beers would fall flat in aroma and flavor. I tried a lot of methods, even bottling a few points above FG.

As far as the hop tea, I thought I could keep the aroma and flavor for those final bottles. But, I didn't make it that far and just started kegging.

It would be interesting to read about your results. I gave in and started to stock pile kegging hardware.

 

[Schlenkerla]

People are saying that the Cryo hops are potent, so I would make the hop tea with only an ounce. Especially if they are $5/oz and only experimenting. If using pellets, I was thinking of using around 2-3 oz. But, I don't know how many oz a 8 cup French press would hold, so I would have prolly gone with 2.

When I bottled I thought I was oxidizing my IPAs. After a month, the last 12 or so beers, the beers would fall flat in aroma and flavor. I tried a lot of methods, even bottling a few points above FG.

As far as the hop tea, I thought I could keep the aroma and flavor for those final bottles. But, I didn't make it that far and just started kegging.

It would be interesting to read about your results. I gave in and started to stock pile kegging hardware.

In general, late additions don't last very long. The flavor dissipates over time. That's why dog fish head invented the Randall. It's an inline water filter, filled with hops (a hop infuser) on the serving line.

I haven't tried these yet, but I was thinking this type of hop would turn that hop flavor degradation to a non issue.

I have four different cryo hops ready to use. I'm planning to make a west coast amber made with cascade. 60, 5, and 0.

 

[beersk]

...

I was under the impression dry hopping would be more difficult because the powder floats on the top of the wort, but commercial brewers can recirculate their fermenters. Homebrewers can use a marble.

...

~Adam

Wait, what? Who is recirculating their fermenters? That sounds like a terrible idea. But I have heard that the cryo hops float (when dumped into the fermenter) from the head brewer at the brewery I'm helping out at.

I've only brewed with cryo hops once. It was Loral lupulin powder that I used in a helles and it's still lagering, so not sure how it'll taste yet. But I love the idea of using hop injectors for FWH or bittering addition and cryo hops at flameout/whirlpool. Less trub and vegetal matter - Perfect.

 

[microbusbrewery]

Wait, what? Who is recirculating their fermenters? That sounds like a terrible idea. But I have heard that the cryo hops float (when dumped into the fermenter) from the head brewer at the brewery I'm helping out at.

I know of few that are recirculating their dry hops. Sierra Nevada with their torpedo was probably the first one that I heard of, but I know there are quite a few commercial breweries doing it now (bierhaus15 mentions it in post 45). As long as you have the ability to purge oxygen and everything is properly sanitized, it shouldn't be a problem. I'm sure some pumps are better than others for this too (e.g. peristaltic pump, diaphragm pump).

Re the floating, it seems that can be an issue if it's not pelletized. I experimented with some in powder form in a tincture with vodka and I can confirm that once it's wetted in vodka, it no longer floats.

 

[DemonsRun]

Nice little articles on some breweries experiences w/cryo-hops
http://scottjanish.com/lupulin-powder-vs-pellets-experiment/

https://d3b8rq9ztst8vv.cloudfront.net/docs/HBS-Brewing-with-Lupulin-Powder-Joe-Mohrfeld.pdf?mtime=20161216133306

 

[AOD]

Wait, what? Who is recirculating their fermenters? That sounds like a terrible idea. But I have heard that the cryo hops float (when dumped into the fermenter) from the head brewer at the brewery I'm helping out at.

At the commercial level, after yeast is pulled out of the conical and/or in the bright tank. I saw some feedback that they can get full utilization with powder / cryo and recirculation in hours versus days.

Obviously recirculation brings on a new challenge of C02 purging / oxidation and sanitation versus just letting the beer sit in brite or secondary.

~Adam

 

[AOD]

I'm in a bit of a time crunch, I'd like to dry hope and carb at the same time. Has anyone dry hopped with cryo pellets in a keg? I have a fine mesh hop sock, wondering if I could dry hop in that, in a keg without having to transfer to another keg for serving.

I'm going to offer my experience (at 318 batches of beer into this journey) that dry hopping in kegs with pellets is a horrible idea. Dry hopping with pellets / powder / cryo is likely going to follow that experience.

The issue with pellets is they sink and they go right for the dip tube. You get clogs or foam when the bag gets sucked up.

Leaf hops float, but when I tried to time crunch a beer by force carbing the keg and dry hopping at room temp @ 30 PSI, the hop bag pushed down to the bottom. Foam and clogs.

If time-crunched, I strongly suggest a small increase in your dry hop and add it directly to the primary for 1-2 days. You'll be waaaaay better off.

~Adam

 

[couchsending]

I'm going to offer my experience (at 318 batches of beer into this journey) that dry hopping in kegs with pellets is a horrible idea. Dry hopping with pellets / powder / cryo is likely going to follow that experience.

The issue with pellets is they sink and they go right for the dip tube. You get clogs or foam when the bag gets sucked up.

Leaf hops float, but when I tried to time crunch a beer by force carbing the keg and dry hopping at room temp @ 30 PSI, the hop bag pushed down to the bottom. Foam and clogs.

If time-crunched, I strongly suggest a small increase in your dry hop and add it directly to the primary for 1-2 days. You'll be waaaaay better off.

~Adam

Suspend the bag of pellets with dental floss. Lids still seal and nothing gets sucked up the dip tube.

Or

Use one of the canisters Utahbiodiesel sells

Or

As Janish does put a mesh screen around the whole dip tube and just chuck em in loose. Also available at Utahbiodiesel

Keg hopping adds depth to the Hop aroma profile and is very different than just adding more in primary. Done in 10ish times and zero grassy off flavors, no stuck poppets or dip tubes, no leaky lids.

Willing to bet that most decent sized breweries selling hoppy beers are recirculating during DH. Cuts DH time waaaaay down. Max two days for full extraction, more often less. I thought about doing it with the quick carb but I'm pretty sure you'd clog the poppets and you'd have to pull the carb stone as well cause it would get ruined. There are videos of people recirculating on small conicals which I might have to try in the future.

 

[Schlenkerla]

The simple route with cryo is to whirlpool. If it's too late, the beer is fermented and you want to use cryo. Make a hop tea, with boiling water and a coffee press, steep, plunge then dump that in an empty keg and transfer your finished beer.

This is a old BYO endorsed method for infusing hop flavor.

Nothing says you have use it I a fermented batch. Whirlpool them in the next batch.

 

[AOD]

The simple route with cryo is to whirlpool. If it's too late, the beer is fermented and you want to use cryo.

Nothing says you have use it I a fermented batch. Whirlpool them in the next batch.

Schlenkerla, are you proposing whirlpool only without a dry hop?

I considered this on my 6oz cryo whirlpool beer. I added 2oz cryo and 2oz dry hops yesterday though.

~Adam

 

[AOD]

Use one of the canisters Utahbiodiesel sells

I do have one of those stainless steel screen canisters now, I actually got mine at stainlessbrewing.com I think. This approach to adding hops to kegs is a bit different than when I first started!

I suppose I'll give keg hopping another whirl. I too did not get grassy, but I've found I can get the hop aroma profile and volume I want with 1 or 2 dry hop additions in primary, then keg for secondary.

Cheers,
~Adam

 

[beersk]

At the commercial level, after yeast is pulled out of the conical and/or in the bright tank. I saw some feedback that they can get full utilization with powder / cryo and recirculation in hours versus days.

Obviously recirculation brings on a new challenge of C02 purging / oxidation and sanitation versus just letting the beer sit in brite or secondary.

~Adam

Yes, that was what I was thinking, plus knocking trub and yeast back up into suspension. Sounds like a terrible idea.

 

[Dcpcooks]

I have dry hopped twice with cryo hops. The last batch was 6 oz of citra cryo into a 1/2 bbl for three days at 65. It is a fantastic hop bomb. I crashed it on day two and racked it to the keg the end of the third day.

I wouldn't really worry too much about it.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Schlenkerla, are you proposing whirlpool only without a dry hop?

I considered this on my 6oz cryo whirlpool beer. I added 2oz cryo and 2oz dry hops yesterday though.

~Adam

Yes sort of....

Some of the links posted in this thread and what I read suggested cryo are best primarily for whirlpool or late additions.

They went on to say if you dry hop use a blend of both regular (whole leaf hops) and cryo. You can half the cryo since they are more potent.

 

[jammin]

The simple route with cryo is to whirlpool. If it's too late, the beer is fermented and you want to use cryo. Make a hop tea, with boiling water and a coffee press, steep, plunge then dump that in an empty keg and transfer your finished beer.

This is a old BYO endorsed method for infusing hop flavor.

Nothing says you have use it I a fermented batch. Whirlpool them in the next batch.

How can it be too late?

Several studies have indicated that 24-48hrs yields peak Hop aroma & flavor in the dry hop. Cryo powder has already mechanically separated what you are trying incorporate. Logic would dictate it would more efficient if anything when dry hopping with this stuff

 

[Schlenkerla]

How can it be too late?

Several studies have indicated that 24-48hrs yields peak Hop aroma & flavor in the dry hop. Cryo powder has already mechanically separated what you are trying incorporate. Logic would dictate it would more efficient if anything when dry hopping with this stuff

It's to late to "Whirl pool" if it's chilled in a fermenter already or obviously already fermented.

That's why I suggested the French coffee press. Add heat and hops at boiling.

Most of the recommendations with cryo have been to whirlpool while the wort is hot so as to to isomerize or blend with the beer. It tends to lock-in unlike dry hopping. Which tends to fade with time when you use traditional whole leaf hops.

Give this a read.... it talks about isomerization and hop essential oil solubility and vaporization. Temps above 140F and below 212F. This article advocates doing whirl pool and dry hopping for the best aroma and flavor.

https://byo.com/mead/item/2808-hop-stands

 

[AOD]

^Good info, thanks dude!

 

[jammin]

It's to late to "Whirl pool" if it's chilled in a fermenter already or obviously already fermented.

That's why I suggested the French coffee press. Add heat and hops at boiling.

Most of the recommendations with cryo have been to whirlpool while the wort is hot so as to to isomerize or blend with the beer. It tends to lock-in unlike dry hopping. Which tends to fade with time when you use traditional whole leaf hops.

Give this a read.... it talks about isomerization and hop essential oil solubility and vaporization. Temps above 140F and below 212F. This article advocates doing whirl pool and dry hopping for the best aroma and flavor.

https://byo.com/mead/item/2808-hop-stands

That "study" is garbage. Anyone that brews IPA with any enthusiasm would disagree with their "stats" on dry hopping rate. Sounds like Budweiser wrote this

It also states that dry hopping yields the greatest aroma but not as much taste. They also add hops pretty hot; I can see where would people would associate this "increase" in flavor with bitterness. We all now know that this is not the mark of a well crafted IPA


I still say this product would best suited for dry hop

 

[Schlenkerla]

That "study" is garbage. Anyone that brews IPA with any enthusiasm would disagree with their "stats" on dry hopping rate. Sounds like Budweiser wrote this

It also states that dry hopping yields the greatest aroma but not as much taste. They also add hops pretty hot; I can see where would people would associate this "increase" in flavor with bitterness. We all now know that this is not the mark of a well crafted IPA


I still say this product would best suited for dry hop

Not sure how you equate the article as garbage. Unless you don't like the hop rate. Not sure where you get a Budweiser idea.

This is the 100 IBU DIPA posted in the article; 4.5 oz during the boil, 3 oz in the hop stand, 3 oz in the primary, 2.5 oz in the secondary. 13 oz total is not skimping on hops some of which are high alpha acids.

I do think there is a solubility limit consideration coupled with what's practical. Adding more or too much is a waste of money and results in lost beer. It all depends on what you want, so toss that side for discussions sake.

In my opinion flavor (or taste) and aroma are almost one in the same. Thats the perception by many because a lot of flavor comes from aroma. Drink something or eat something then do it again pinching your nose. The ability to sense aroma makes a difference on one's perceived flavor. Ever been sick and food seems tasteless?

It's been a pretty well known fact the sequences of hop additions start with bittering, migrates to flavor, then ends aroma. Dry hopping is nearly all aroma. The gray area is where flavor changes to aroma. I think most flavor is extracted with heat (like bitterness).

My reason for posting it was to show how certain hop elements get into beer; hot vs room temp.

I also posted this because it discusses isomerization and the vaporization of the hop oils. After reading this it's a consideration on how to use cryo since cryo (LupilN2 & Debittered Hops) rich in oils and resins. Heat is how they get fused (chemically bonded) into the beer.

I consider the following;

A) Isomerization via whirlpool as the locking method to add and retain flavor and some aroma.

B.) Dry hopping adds aroma and flavor (via aroma) but has temporary fresh hop bouquet. Diminishes with time.

YCH, Scott Janis and BYO Recommends both however on two fronts;

(Whirlpool & Dry Hopping)

(Whole Hops & Cryo Hops)

Whole hops have less tendency to clog during transfer.

Last point to consider is how long the beer is going to sit around. My bigger beers tend to drink slower, so I'd do more whirl pool with them. Smaller session beers go fast so I'd dry hop more with those. I keg, so i don't have leftover bottles sitting around. Loss of hop flavor (via aroma) is NOT a long term consideration.

 

[Tknishi]

I bottled my IPA brewed with cryo hops and honestly it's not that hoppy, or at least as hoppy as I was hoping. I don't expect it to get hoppier after carbing up and conditioning. Just wanted to share my experience since i commented earlier in this thread.

This was a 3-gallon batch, I went with a simple grain bill, 2-row and a little carapils, mash low at 148. SG - 1.056, FG - 1.006 (WLP001 with starter).

Hops adjusted based on what people said to use half the hops if using cryo hops.
1 oz magnum pellet at 60 min, the 1 oz cascade (cryo) at flameout, 1 oz simcoe (cryo) at 11 days, and 1 oz ekuanot (cryo) at 15 days, then bottled at 20 days.

Biggest pro i experienced, very little trub from cryo hops.

Maybe I am just a hop head, or maybe I need way more hops, and I'm not an experienced brewer by any means, so use the info as you like, but just wanted to share.

Anybody else just underwhelmed by their experience with cryo?

 

[stickyfinger]

I bottled my IPA brewed with cryo hops and honestly it's not that hoppy, or at least as hoppy as I was hoping. I don't expect it to get hoppier after carbing up and conditioning. Just wanted to share my experience since i commented earlier in this thread.

This was a 3-gallon batch, I went with a simple grain bill, 2-row and a little carapils, mash low at 148. SG - 1.056, FG - 1.006 (WLP001 with starter).

Hops adjusted based on what people said to use half the hops if using cryo hops.
1 oz magnum pellet at 60 min, the 1 oz cascade (cryo) at flameout, 1 oz simcoe (cryo) at 11 days, and 1 oz ekuanot (cryo) at 15 days, then bottled at 20 days.

Biggest pro i experienced, very little trub from cryo hops.

Maybe I am just a hop head, or maybe I need way more hops, and I'm not an experienced brewer by any means, so use the info as you like, but just wanted to share.

Anybody else just underwhelmed by their experience with cryo?

does your usual recipe with 2 oz at each point have the same or more hoppiness?

 

[Tknishi]

does your usual recipe with 2 oz at each point have the same or more hoppiness?

The last IPA I made had a similar grain bill, but a slightly different hop schedule. I forget the exact hops off the top of my head, but I did a 1oz. (60 min), 2 oz. (5 min), 2 oz. (flameout), and one 2 oz. dry hop. As i recall it had more hoppiness when bottling than this one, but even then i wanted to more hoppiness! I was hoping the cryo hops might be able to give me that without having to spend more money on adding more hops.

 

[stickyfinger]

The last IPA I made had a similar grain bill, but a slightly different hop schedule. I forget the exact hops off the top of my head, but I did a 1oz. (60 min), 2 oz. (5 min), 2 oz. (flameout), and one 2 oz. dry hop. As i recall it had more hoppiness when bottling than this one, but even then i wanted to more hoppiness! I was hoping the cryo hops might be able to give me that without having to spend more money on adding more hops.

I've heard cryos are anywhere b/w 2-3x more powerful. Maybe keep trying them to see if on avg they are closer to 2x? I haven't used them yet. I was also hoping that they they could at least give more resinous, intense hop flavor. Seems like they might deteriorate faster due to the increased surface area?

I think 6 oz whirlpool and 6 oz dry hop is a good amount to get a really intense hoppiness in ipa. i've gone up to 12 oz dry hop with 6 oz whirlpool, but i don't know that it really added too much more character, probably some. I don't mind "wasting" some money on hops though if it means getting the most intensely hoppy beer possible. I think I calculated out that the cryos were maybe a touch more expensive than buying pellets in bulk if they were 2x more effective. 3x more effective and they would be a better deal (from prices i have seen)

 

[Schlenkerla]

I think the big thing here with cryo is not so much for making the hop bomb of an IPA or DIPA. You can do that with regular pellets or whole leaf.

I think the "Session IPA" with 1.040 OG is where they might shine. Bitter at 20-25 then whirlpool them. Cryo are Debittered hops.

Some places will use Cascade, Citra, Mosaic, Amarillo, but only late additions like; 15, 10, 5, 0. IBU is low 18-20 but it's full of citrus hop flavor.

My local brewery does this with just Citra and Mosaic.

The twist is to do that and then whirlpool with cryo. 200F down to 140F. Amp the hop flavor aroma without adding bitterness.

I once whirlpooled with 3 oz of 7C Falconers Flight. Wow! It was way too sweet with a late hoppy, bitter, resin-like aftertaste. Almost phenolic in taste. It was totally out of balance.

 

[stickyfinger]

cryohops are not debittered to my knowledge