Correct way to bottle a sour?

[scooterunderwood]

It's been almost a year since I started my Roeselare and I'm planning to bottle soon. I'm debating whether I want to bottle carbonate or keg-carb and bottle that.

I'd prefer to keg-carb and let it condition in the bottle, but then I'll have to dedicate a keg and regulator to only sours. As for bottle carbing, idk what yeast to re-pitch(s-04?) or how much corn sugar to add. I understand you should use less because your terminal gravity will be lower? Also how long will it need to condition in the bottle being that its not just yeast working in here?

 

[dcp27]

I'd prefer to keg-carb and let it condition in the bottle, but then I'll have to dedicate a keg and regulator to only sours.

you definitely don't need to dedicate a keg to sours after using one in it, just like the rest of your equipment proper cleaning/sanitation would allow it to go back to clean beers. even less reason to need a separate regulator unless you somehow manage to get the beer in it

As for bottle carbing, idk what yeast to re-pitch(s-04?) or how much corn sugar to add. I understand you should use less because your terminal gravity will be lower? Also how long will it need to condition in the bottle being that its not just yeast working in here?

most any dry yeast should be fine. you're not using less priming cuz you're at a lower terminal gravity, you're doing it with the idea that the brett/bacteria may consume more sugars over time. the acidity could slow down the carbonation, but its kinda variable

 

[microbusbrewery]

+1 on the keg, you won't have to dedicate that keg to sours. Just clean and sanitize well. I think I even remember Jamil recently commenting in a podcast that he usually puts his sours on tap at home and has yet to have an issue.

If you go the bottle condition route, there was a recommendation on here a little while back (I apologize, I can't remember from who) but they said to add some sugar to your fermenter a week before bottling. The idea is since the brew has been sitting for so long the CO2 level is much lower than in a brew that's only been in the fermenter for a month. So adding some sugar should reintroduce dissolved CO2 into the beer so that when you plug it into a priming sugar calculator you don't end up undercarbing it (because the priming sugar calculators assume a certain level of dissolved CO2).

 

[sweetcell]

It's been almost a year since I started my Roeselare and I'm planning to bottle soon. I'm debating whether I want to bottle carbonate or keg-carb and bottle that.

I'd prefer to keg-carb and let it condition in the bottle, but then I'll have to dedicate a keg and regulator to only sours. As for bottle carbing, idk what yeast to re-pitch(s-04?) or how much corn sugar to add. I understand you should use less because your terminal gravity will be lower? Also how long will it need to condition in the bottle being that its not just yeast working in here?

how stable is the gravity? if you're at FG because it hasn't changed over a few months, then you shouldn't have to worry about the gravity going lower and making bottle bombs. prime as usual, but you do need to take into account the very low levels of currently dissolved CO2.

as for what yeast to use, the pH of the beer might be too low for regular brewer's yeast. i'd consider going with a wine yeast - those critters are better adapted to acidic enviros. i have no experience with re-yeasting a sour beer, but i've had great success using champagne yeast in regular beers.

 

[kaips1]

Jean van Roy on the brewing network episode said gravity doesn't determine when to bottle it's the taste. So correct bottling is to bottle when it's ready, if you are worried about carbonation or explosions then take a reading when it tastes right and go off that on if you need to add any priming sugar, or use heavy champagne bottles with full punts and carb to 3-4.5 vols and keep it in a cellared environment for about a year. Then open one and see how it is.

 

[sweetcell]

jean's advice might not apply to everyone... i suspect that he can go by taste because he has his process down, he knows after X months gravity is stable so then it's down to taste at that point for him (i.e. how acetic he wants the beer). he's done it a hundred times. homebrewers doing a sour recipe for the first or second time might want to play it safer.

if you are worried about carbonation or explosions then take a reading when it tastes right and go off that on if you need to add any priming sugar.

in theory that sounds great, but how do you know what your FG is? say you pitched your bugs at 1.014, it's now 1.006 - but how much lower will you go? if the bugs keeping working down to 1.000, that's 3 volumes of CO2 on top of whatever priming sugar you've added. so how much priming sugar to add? 2.5 volumes and hope that the bugs don't produce more than 2 volumes?

if you go with the "bottle when it tastes right" approach i'd suggest priming on the low end and definitely use champagne bottles. you won't have total control over carbonation, but if locking in a taste is more important then bottle when you have to... it's a tradeoff, i suppose.

 

[kaips1]

jean's advice might not apply to everyone... i suspect that he can go by taste because he has his process down, he knows after X months gravity is stable so then it's down to taste at that point for him (i.e. how acetic he wants the beer). he's done it a hundred times. homebrewers doing a sour recipe for the first or second time might want to play it safer.

in theory that sounds great, but how do you know what your FG is? say you pitched your bugs at 1.014, it's now 1.006 - but how much lower will you go? if the bugs keeping working down to 1.000, that's 3 volumes of CO2 on top of whatever priming sugar you've added. so how much priming sugar to add? 2.5 volumes and hope that the bugs don't produce more than 2 volumes?

if you go with the "bottle when it tastes right" approach i'd suggest priming on the low end and definitely use champagne bottles. you won't have total control over carbonation, but if locking in a taste is more important then bottle when you have to... it's a tradeoff, i suppose.

Heavy bottles are the best way to go. I agree with being easy on the priming. Along those lines, lots of guys like gabe fletcher have said that you get better flavors from the Brett after a yr in the bottle with it under its own pressure.

 

[tankcrash]

I am winging it with my first sour. I'm not entirely worried about how acidic this will be. I used Orval dregs in a 1.07 ish wort.

That said if I let this sit in primary till it reaches 1.00, could I theoretically add sugar to 2.5 volumes in champagne bottles and be 100 percent safe? Or do bugs often go below 1.00?

 

[kaips1]

I am winging it with my first sour. I'm not entirely worried about how acidic this will be. I used Orval dregs in a 1.07 ish wort.

That said if I let this sit in primary till it reaches 1.00, could I theoretically add sugar to 2.5 volumes in champagne bottles and be 100 percent safe? Or do bugs often go below 1.00?

Most times you won't go below 1.000 and you can do up to 7 vols in a non faulty champagne bottle and be fine, you jut might want to cork and cage those. Champagne bottles are supposed to hold up to 12vols

 

[tankcrash]

Good to know. Thank u very much.

 

[TNGabe]

I am winging it with my first sour. I'm not entirely worried about how acidic this will be. I used Orval dregs in a 1.07 ish wort.

That said if I let this sit in primary till it reaches 1.00, could I theoretically add sugar to 2.5 volumes in champagne bottles and be 100 percent safe? Or do bugs often go below 1.00?

Orval dregs shouldn't make sour beer. There should be brett, maybe two strains, but no bacteria to sour.

 

[tankcrash]

Like I said I am winging it. I was way off. My apologies for being ignorant. Guess I've gotta go buy a lambic this week.

I'm actually glad I get to make this more complicated.

So now for more advice. When should I add bug dregs? Soon as possible? Certain gravity?

 

[sweetcell]

When should I add bug dregs? Soon as possible? Certain gravity?

doesn't really matter. they're so slow acting that the sacc will be done with its business (primary fermentation) long before the bugs get going. no point in waiting too long, tho, since you run the risk of infection (getting undesirable bugs in there).

much bigger consideration is logistics: are you going to rack the beer to another vessel? is the beer in the vessel that you'll be aging it in for 6, 12, or more months? personally i'd hold off on pitching bugs until the beer is in its aging vessel.

 

[smokinghole]

I like pitching my souring bacteria and brett in the primary fermentation. You get the most sour bang for your buck I think.

 

[scooterunderwood]

Great information, thanks everybody! I think I'll just dedicate a keg to carbing sours and use my normal regulator.