Competitions Requiring 3 bottles

[brettwasbtd]

Why? I don't understand why a local 1-day competition would need to have 3 bottles. 2 is all that is necessary. The first is used in the initial judging and if the beer is worthy, a second would be used for a BOS round. Guess I am just a little upset cause I had saved 4 bottles for these two competitions coming up in May and one has decided to implement a new 3 bottle requirement this year... so i can only pick one!

 

[ehedge20]

In case one of your bottles gets damages, has an infection, or just isn't right.

 

[AnOldUR]

Could be to assure a good beer for Mini-BOS.

NHC requires three for second round.

 

[Rev2010]

Because if you win they use the 3rd bottle to Christen a cruise ship.



Rev.

 

[brettwasbtd]

In case one of your bottles gets damages, has an infection, or just isn't right.

I guess that makes sense. But I'd rather rely on my own cleaning and packaging regiment than losing a another bottle . Also, if the first bottle they open is off, do they open another, or just write it off as being crappy.

Could be to assure a good beer for Mini-BOS.

NHC requires three for second round.

So what if the bad beer was the first one? Or the first was good and the other two were bad? Then you are no better off then just sending 2 total. NHC is the NHC and a little different in my eyes as far as comps go

Because if you win they use the 3rd bottle to Christen a cruise ship.



Rev.

Hope I am invited to christen said ship

 

[weirdboy]

So what if the bad beer was the first one? Or the first was good and the other two were bad? Then you are no better off then just sending 2 total. NHC is the NHC and a little different in my eyes as far as comps go

The three bottles are so that at any stage in the competition, if one bottle turns out bad, the head judge has the discretion to open another bottle. There was a case at a local competition a few years ago where the BOS bottle was infected, and the judges then opened the third bottle and it won BOS.

 

[brettwasbtd]

The three bottles are so that at any stage in the competition, if one bottle turns out bad, the head judge has the discretion to open another bottle. There was a case at a local competition a few years ago where the BOS bottle was infected, and the judges then opened the third bottle and it won BOS.

This makes sense and if that was me, I would be greatful for the extra bottle opportunity. I guess my concern, being a cheapass and not liking to waste my precious brew, is that the majority of the entries will only have 1 bottle opened. The remaining 2 bottles will either get tossed (hope not) or consumed without feedback. Guess if thats the way it works, then thats the way it works. Heck, if there are two bottles left with tags and a judge/steward/comp attendant takes it home and has it, thats fine, just would like feedback

 

[weirdboy]

Or you could be like me, and have all of your NHC entries shipped back because one bottle got damaged while the package was on the delivery truck.

 

[bob1852]

Or you could be like me, and have all of your NHC entries shipped back because one bottle got damaged while the package was on the delivery truck.

Ouch. Did you still get them in on time?

 

[brettwasbtd]

That stinks! Sorry to hear that. Well I guess my frustration has be deflected a bit now! But now I wonder, what happens to unopened beers from comps?

 

[weirdboy]

Ouch. Did you still get them in on time?

No, I deliberately shipped them so that they'd get there close to the deadline. The depressing thing was when it went from "OUT FOR DELIVERY" to "SHIPPING EXCEPTION" and I knew I was screwed. I don't actually know what happened, as the original packaging was completely gone when I got it back. I pack very carefully, however, so I have to imagine a heavy object fell on and crushed my box. I have shipped a LOT of bottles and this is the first time I've ever had one break.

 

[fletchsj]

sometimes there has to be a tasteoff... a number of local comps near me often have 300+ entries. Imagine having 30+ entries in a certain catagory. if the initial judging is done by 3 sets of 2 judges (10 beers being an awful lot imo) you could have 9 beers move on theoretically to such a taste off so 1 or a couple can move on the best of show round. Now, if you comp has a max per class entry amount sure 2 bottle might work. But, most comps are not interested in limiting the entries. so 1 for rnd 1, 1 for taste off, 1 for BOS. obviously the infection situation could play into that as well. So, i gather, be greatful you don't have to submit 4 bottles

 

[Lennie]

It'd be nice to have a fresh bottle for mini-BOS but I don't see three bottles becoming the norm any time soon.

I've seen where a bottle of beer was bad in initial judging and we opened the second bottle and it was OK, but it was automatically not eligible for BOS since there was no more beer. Actually I'd think having a bad bottle would be enough to disqualify an entry simply because of poor QC. Yes it can happen to anybody but decisions are made on factors of lesseer importance than that.

I'd probably boycott the three-bottle contest, if they make you choose then penalize them for it.

 

[ehedge20]

That stinks! Sorry to hear that. Well I guess my frustration has be deflected a bit now! But now I wonder, what happens to unopened beers from comps?

My beer club drinks them at our meeting. About 600 total beers lol. Which reminds me go to burp.org and sign up for Spirit of Free Beer Competition in DC.

 

[brettwasbtd]

My beer club drinks them at our meeting. About 600 total beers lol. Which reminds me go to burp.org and sign up for Spirit of Free Beer Competition in DC.

Funny you say that, this is the competition I was referring to! I had four bottles to enter into two each into the Spirit of Free Beer and The Battle of the Bubbles (Frederick MD) Which are the same day. However the Spirit of Free Beer Requiring 3 bottles and costing $1 more per entry will probably lead me to just enter this beer into the battle of the bubbles!

I was also a little frustrated with my Scottish 80/- scoresheet last year from the Spirit of Free beer. The judges made assumptions on my process and provided recipe adjustment which were completely wrong (said I should do a partial mash to add roasted barley when it was an all grain recipe!). I had a fellow homebrewer and BJCP judge who also entered that category and received almost the SAME comments. I understand judging is subjective, but that scoresheet was pretty bad, and offered no real help in improving the beer. Not to mentioned that in another comp it won 2nd place BOS... so I guess my confidence in the competition is not 100%. Another beer the owner of Mad Fox judge and the scoresheet was very helpful!

 

[Mongrel]

That stinks! Sorry to hear that. Well I guess my frustration has be deflected a bit now! But now I wonder, what happens to unopened beers from comps?

At my club's comp, the judges tell the volunteers which beers they should drink. The leftovers end up at the next club meeting. I was happy that none of mine made it to the meeting last year.

 

[Denny]

The three bottles are so that at any stage in the competition, if one bottle turns out bad, the head judge has the discretion to open another bottle. There was a case at a local competition a few years ago where the BOS bottle was infected, and the judges then opened the third bottle and it won BOS.

Also, if it's a large category, it will be broken into multiple flights. If your beer does well another bottle will be needed for the mini BOS for that.

 

[bob1852]

No, I deliberately shipped them so that they'd get there close to the deadline. The depressing thing was when it went from "OUT FOR DELIVERY" to "SHIPPING EXCEPTION" and I knew I was screwed. I don't actually know what happened, as the original packaging was completely gone when I got it back. I pack very carefully, however, so I have to imagine a heavy object fell on and crushed my box. I have shipped a LOT of bottles and this is the first time I've ever had one break.

Damn, sorry to hear that.

I never did confirm that mine made it to San Diego, and can't find the tracking number. oops.

 

[scottland]

Both of my local competitions require it. It drives me nuts. To their credit they are both big comps 200-400 entries typically. I just hate having to bottle three bottles per beer. I'm lazy

 

[Sparky]

However, you are the "Awesomeness Award Winner," so (of course) they would want more....

Just saying....

 

[ehedge20]

I was also a little frustrated with my Scottish 80/- scoresheet last year from the Spirit of Free beer. The judges made assumptions on my process and provided recipe adjustment which were completely wrong (said I should do a partial mash to add roasted barley when it was an all grain recipe!). I had a fellow homebrewer and BJCP judge who also entered that category and received almost the SAME comments. I understand judging is subjective, but that scoresheet was pretty bad, and offered no real help in improving the beer. Not to mentioned that in another comp it won 2nd place BOS... so I guess my confidence in the competition is not 100%. Another beer the owner of Mad Fox judge and the scoresheet was very helpful!

Do you still have the score sheet?

 

[brettwasbtd]

Do you still have the score sheet?

I do... pm me if you want to see

My complaining is really due to the fact that I can only participate and get feedback on this one beer from in one competition. I'd prefer to get more feedback. I still plan on enter the other beers I have more of in the spirit of free beer. unfortunately just not this one

 

[Lennie]

Not sure you can blame a comp for the quality of one judge on one beer. Unfortunately the popularity of comps has stretched the qualified judge pool to/past its limits. I've run into a comp or two that had to employ a large number of untrained judges. If the review was from a qualified judge then you just have to accept that the person didn't enjoy the beer for whatever reason.

 

[ehedge20]

I do... pm me if you want to see

My complaining is really due to the fact that I can only participate and get feedback on this one beer from in one competition. I'd prefer to get more feedback. I still plan on enter the other beers I have more of in the spirit of free beer. unfortunately just not this one

Well you should not have drank all of it

 

[brettwasbtd]

Not sure you can blame a comp for the quality of one judge on one beer. Unfortunately the popularity of comps has stretched the qualified judge pool to/past its limits. I've run into a comp or two that had to employ a large number of untrained judges. If the review was from a qualified judge then you just have to accept that the person didn't enjoy the beer for whatever reason.

I have no problem if they didn't like it. I was mainly upset that one judge said "can do partial mash. higher mash temps" - assuming it was an extract batch and the other Judge said "If extract then try partial mash." Assuming process in judging is a no-no. This was an AG batch mashed at 159* with a calibrated thermometer. Maybe they got a bad bottle... in which case the 3 bottle requirement would have come in handy

I agree the judging pool is limited. I am looking into becoming a judge myself. Part of the problem is that it takes a while to even get into a BJCP exam. With the new exam style maybe that will speed things up, I hope so!

Well you should not have drank all of it

Here lies the real problem

 

[weirdboy]

I have no problem if they didn't like it. I was mainly upset that one judge said "can do partial mash. higher mash temps" - assuming it was an extract batch and the other Judge said "If extract then try partial mash." Assuming process in judging is a no-no. This was an AG batch mashed at 159* with a calibrated thermometer. Maybe they got a bad bottle... in which case the 3 bottle requirement would have come in handy

I agree the judging pool is limited. I am looking into becoming a judge myself. Part of the problem is that it takes a while to even get into a BJCP exam. With the new exam style maybe that will speed things up, I hope so!


Here lies the real problem

I would guess that there were also comments in the scoresheets about body being insufficient for the style. In which case, suggesting to raise the mash temps would be appropriate 99% of the time. And to which I would also add if your thermometer is really reading 159F and you are getting insufficient body in your beer, there is probably something wrong with your thermometer, mash temperature control, or sampling process.

The other possible factors could be using a yeast that tends to attenuate much better (e.g. using WLP001 instead of WLP002) or an infection, although you'd likely pick up other signs of infection besides the body being thinner than normal.


Regarding the exam, I think you can take the online exam now as of the first of this month. It is an hour long timed exam with I think 200 questions. You also need to sign up for the tasting portion, of course, which might the long pole you are referring to, but I think there are actually more spots opened up for that now that the initial written portion is online and automated. I took the pilot online exam a couple of weeks ago; I found it approximately the same level of difficulty as the essay version, with the exception that I felt like I wouldn't express some of the answers the same way they were written on the exam.

 

[Zen_Brew]

No, I deliberately shipped them so that they'd get there close to the deadline. The depressing thing was when it went from "OUT FOR DELIVERY" to "SHIPPING EXCEPTION" and I knew I was screwed. I don't actually know what happened, as the original packaging was completely gone when I got it back. I pack very carefully, however, so I have to imagine a heavy object fell on and crushed my box. I have shipped a LOT of bottles and this is the first time I've ever had one break.

Man that is major suckage. Sorry to hear that. I wonder since not receiving them if you get your $10 per entry back, not that that's the point. I get a pass on the shipping this year as we had a local driver run many of the Seattle entries down to Portland for first round, and we can hand deliver the second round entries this year.

I know we have all seen the major carriers handle packages. They just throw them around to meet the strict time requirements to process and move them through the system. I pack everything I ship thinking it has to survive multiple 4-5' falls, but with bottles or anything else highly breakable you can never be sure. I think some hail marys doesn't hurt either.

 

[brettwasbtd]

I would guess that there were also comments in the scoresheets about body being insufficient for the style. In which case, suggesting to raise the mash temps would be appropriate 99% of the time. And to which I would also add if your thermometer is really reading 159F and you are getting insufficient body in your beer, there is probably something wrong with your thermometer, mash temperature control, or sampling process.

The other possible factors could be using a yeast that tends to attenuate much better (e.g. using WLP001 instead of WLP002) or an infection, although you'd likely pick up other signs of infection besides the body being thinner than normal.


Regarding the exam, I think you can take the online exam now. It is an hour long timed exam with I think 200 questions. You also need to sign up for the tasting portion, of course, which might the long pole you are referring to, but I think there are actually more spots opened up for that now that the initial written portion is online and automated.

I agree with the above assumptions. Guess i was just confused that there wasn't body detected as it was pretty thick in all the ones I tasted, and in another comp i entered it was deemed appropriate to style. Used Wyeasts Scottish Ale yeast and it finished at 1.016. Like i said, something must have been up with that bottle

 

[brettwasbtd]

Now that I think about it, all my beers were dropped off at MyLHBS in falls church and I just placed them with others in a stack on the floor...don't know how long they sat out in the store def could affect things

 

[weirdboy]

That is typical for any competition of any size. It is very rare that you'll find a group with the capacity to store 300-1k+ beers in a refrigerated environment, and you just don't know where or how the bottles will be stored between dropping them off and the actual competition. A lot of times they may end up on the floor of someone's garage for a few weeks, which can have pronounced temperature fluctuations.

That's the reason that if I submit a beer to a competition, it goes as late as possible before the deadline so as to minimize the questionable storage time.

 

[mpilchuk]

Why? I don't understand why a local 1-day competition would need to have 3 bottles. 2 is all that is necessary. The first is used in the initial judging and if the beer is worthy, a second would be used for a BOS round. Guess I am just a little upset cause I had saved 4 bottles for these two competitions coming up in May and one has decided to implement a new 3 bottle requirement this year... so i can only pick one!

I have volunteered the last four years and three bottles were required those years.

Since you are local to DC. you should come and steward at the SofFB. You learn a lot about judging and how a group of volunteers can somehow wrangle close to 1600 bottles of beer and keep some sanity about. When you steward, the judges usually pour you some (if there isn't a shortage on the entry). You can listen to what they have to say about the beer and you really get an idea of how it works. If you are looking to be a judge, it is kind of like sitting in with a all grain brewer before you were to do your first all grain batch.

500 plus entries can't be judged in one day so we had a judging session Friday at 2:30 and and one in the evening. We had 5 flights of APAs and two flights of Belgian Strong (maybe? I was stewarding the APA table) That is three tables of judges with usually two groups of three judges on each table. they judged 8-12 beers per each set of three judges and move the highly ranked ones (or none) to a mini BOS. this is where the second bottle gets sampled. The one beer that makes through this goes on to the BOS the next day.

You'd be surprised that a number of people that only sent in two beers. We had one, maybe two that would have gone to BOS, but with no third bottle they were out of luck.

This competition is I believe the only competition to be able to enter MCAB beers on the east coast. It may be local to you, but beer comes from all over.

We had around 90 sponsors this year. Every one contributed something to the competition. Some very cool prizes will be given out from gift certificates to homebrew stores across the country to whole bags of grain. The winners will be real happy with what they get.

Here's a photo of the Saturday session. Somewhere around 45 judges. I'm not sure if the photo will look good. It was a real wide photo I took with my iPhone and stitched it together for a wide angle. I had to reduce it to upload it here.

Everyone you see in the photo is part of the competition.

 

[brettwasbtd]

Since you are local to DC. you should come and steward at the SofFB.

I have wanted to the past two years however I had obligations on the days both years. This year I was supposed to have to work this past weekend, but our project got delayed a week and I think it would have been too late volunteer the week of. I definitely am interested in helping. I am currently registered to take a tasting exam in 2013 as I am looking to become a judge

they judged 8-12 beers per each set of three judges and move the highly ranked ones (or none) to a mini BOS. this is where the second bottle gets sampled. The one beer that makes through this goes on to the BOS the next day.

This makes perfect sense. I was under the assumption it was just a main round and BOS round. Although from talking to some BURP members it sounds like the extras get consumed next meeting? Maybe I will try to join and get to that

My English Mild got Honorable Mention this year, so I pleased with that result. Just disappointed I didn't have enough of another beer to enter into this competition.

Thanks again for the insight

 

[mpilchuk]

I have wanted to the past two years however I had obligations on the days both years. This year I was supposed to have to work this past weekend, but our project got delayed a week and I think it would have been too late volunteer the week of. I definitely am interested in helping. I am currently registered to take a tasting exam in 2013 as I am looking to become a judge


This makes perfect sense. I was under the assumption it was just a main round and BOS round. Although from talking to some BURP members it sounds like the extras get consumed next meeting? Maybe I will try to join and get to that

My English Mild got Honorable Mention this year, so I pleased with that result. Just disappointed I didn't have enough of another beer to enter into this competition.

Thanks again for the insight

Good job on the honorable mention. It's good to get feedback isn't it. Milds are a tough style. I've been trying to make them over the years and I just can't get one to where I'm happy with it. I need to get one of my beer engines mounted on my home bar so I can play around with the style more. You should also check out BURP's real ale competition in November. It's in Rockville. 26 beer engines 40-50 entries. Pretty cool.

We were in need of stewards right up to a few days before. Next year if you find yourself in the same situation, just sign up on the website. Stewards are future judges. It's a good time. You get breakfast, lunch and there is usually a keg of beer on tap at lunch. Lots of good fellow brewers and Judges to chat with.

The June meeting (happens to be in Gaithersburg, MD) will have all of the beers not used in the competition. I think we put 40 cases on someones truck headed to that meeting.

Burp as a club is a great thing to be a member of. 15 dollars a year. lots of members, great events, good beer. Meetings are moved around the beltway.