Cold crashing New England Pale ale

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Hoppy_Sanchez

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Is it necessary to cold crash this type of pale ale/IPA ? Will cold crashing clear my beer or will it still look like juice? Thoughts? I plan on kegging Friday. I just have a ton of hop sediment and I do not want any floaters.
 
Cold crashing will help clarify any beer. It may take a few days. We just carbonated a session ale and after 3 days at 35 degrees it's still cloudy. Ofcourse the first few pours will be thick but should clear up pretty quick.
 
Do you have a way to put positive pressure on the fermenter during the cold crash? If not you shouldn't cold crash in the fermenter or will likely oxidize the beer.

Will it clear? That depends on what is making it cloudy.... I can get my double IPA very clear, but if there are things like wheat or proteins that didn't separate during the hot/cold break (ie chill haze) then no you probably can't clear it.
 
Do you have a way to put positive pressure on the fermenter during the cold crash? If not you shouldn't cold crash in the fermenter or will likely oxidize the beer.

Sorry to hijack, but this is the first time I've heard this mentioned. Other than cold crashing in the fermenter, how would you suggest its done?
 
Is it necessary to cold crash this type of pale ale/IPA ? Will cold crashing clear my beer or will it still look like juice? Thoughts? I plan on kegging Friday. I just have a ton of hop sediment and I do not want any floaters.

It is common that this style is cloudy but you should not have anything floating. If stuff is floating it probably needs more time, or cold crashing. I rarely cold crash and with enough time in primary most of my beers are clear.

If you leave it in the keg for a few days it will clear there. You will have to pull off a cloudy/sediment glass or two.

Do you have a way to put positive pressure on the fermenter during the cold crash? If not you shouldn't cold crash in the fermenter or will likely oxidize the beer.

I too haven't heard that this is common practice. I would say that most would either cold crash the primary or possibly the secondary.

You want to make sure you remove a blow off tube sitting in a large vessel of sanitizer or it could suck the entire thing into the fermenter when the cold reduces the pressure inside the fermenter.
 
If beer clarity or long term stability isn't a concern for you than I personally wouldn't worry about cloudiness. If you plan on dry hopping that will also add cloudiness anyway. I personally believe that trying to get a nice dry hop into a beer and at the same time being overly concerned about clarity is just silly. I always crash everything in the fermenter for at least a day depending on the style. It'll drop out most of the yeast and some of the residual haze proteins along with any hop particulates floating at the top. It'll also compact your yeast cake which will help with racking. All that being said, the longer you cold condition a beer, the more clear it will become. I know of a few breweries that don't filter their pils, they just let it sit at lager temps for 2-3 months.
 
My apologies, I just reread the OP post and realized he was still in the fermenter. I cold crash in the keg after I force carbonate. A friend of mine likes to syphon to another car boy and cold crash that then keg. That way he gets clear beer in the keg. Like I said, after it settles out in a few days the first 3 or so beers will be thicker but will clarify soon after. I just got one tonight and it's almost clear. Just a slight chill haze.
 
OK, good question. Post fermentation oxidation is being discussed more and more around here and people range from not taking any precautions to being extremely cautions (me) some say to the point of paranoia. Let’s take a second and discuss this.

What is oxidation?
Oxidation is a chemical reaction where there is a loss of elections in an atom. It is the type of reaction that causes rust, apples to turn brown, wine to go bad after opening and the keg of KeyStone Light you bought in high school to taste (more) like **** the next day.

How do we measure Oxidation?
The oxidation reactions consume the oxygen from the beer. If you oxidize beer then place it in a closed system and measure the dissolved O2 (DO) concentration, leave, come back in an hour and measure the DO again it will be reduced. Eventually it will all be removed by reactions. For this reason DO is usually stated as UPTAKE. As in, x parts per million (ppm) of oxygen can be absorbed during transfer, x ppm during packing instead of total DO level.

Without expensive lab analysis we can only eminently measure DO levels after a process (still at the cost of hundreds to thousands in instrumentation) or judge by tastes. However, we can calculate potential and mitigate risks.

Of changes caused by oxidation are not always from the immediate oxidation reaction. Several oxidation reactions for precursors to OTHER reactions, therefore the changes take time to develop.

What does oxidation do to beer?
There are several oxidation reactions that take place in beer at the same time. Several of the major reactions are.

Rapid loss of hop aroma and flavor, especially in dry hopped bears.

Sweet flavors may devolp.

Ethanol reacts via oxidation to form Aldehydes. Aldehydes above 10ppm can be tasted in light beers and above 35ppm in other styles as a green apple flavor.

Linoleic acid oxidizes into dihydroxy and trihdryxyoctadecenoic acids that are precursors to 2-trans-nonenal. The "cardboard" flavor. This reaction will take some time to develop.

Melanoidins in oxidize into the characteristic flavors of sherry. This reaction takes time.

During lag and fermentation yeast build amino acids, proteins, ect. Most do not affect flavor but many leak out of the cell. Valine is one of the amino acids produced. An intermediate compound in valine production is acetolactate, however not all of the acetolactate becomes valine. The acetolactate that leaks out of the cell oxidation reaction converts to diacetyl. After fermentation is complete the yeast enter a stationary phase and reabsorb diacetyl converting it to acetoin and subsequently to 2,3-butanediol. However, the intitial conversion of acetoacetate is dependent on the DO availability, if you under oxygenate the wort some acetoacetate may still remain and convert to diacetyl when the new DO is added. However, MOST of the time diacetyl in the beer is not from post fermentation oxidation but from not doing a diacetyl rest and allowing the diacetyl to be converted to 2,3-buetanedoil.

Occasionally some oxidation is GOOD for a style, like a sherry flavor in a barley wine.

How is O2 Dissolved into beer?

Oxygen behaves the same way as CO2 (so keggers should be familiar). The amount of O2 that can be dissolved (at a time) in beer is dependent on the Pressure of the gas (partial pressure of the gas when talking about a gas mixture) and the temperature of the beer. The time it takes the O2 to dissolve is based on surface area of the beer.

How much (little) uptake should I have.

Pre Fermentation, post pitching 5-20ppm.

Post fermentation pickup should not exceed 0.02ppm-0.03ppm. * Brewing Science and Practice

What happens when I cold crash?
Gases behave by ideal gas laws. The pressure, temperature and volume of gases are all related by the below equation.

Ideal Gas.JPG
So when we cold crash (2) things may happen.

1. The fermenter is completely sealed. As the gas temperature decreases it reduces in pressure and creates a vacuum. 1 pounds per square inch on the outside of the fermenter!! Can your fermenter handle this? Or will it leak?
Pressure.JPG


2.The fermenter is not completely sealed. As the gas temperature decreases air, sanitizer, or other is pulled into the fermenter to fill the space made by the decreasing volume. The oxygen available to dissolve in the beer is 0.171% by volume or 1710ppm!!!! How much dissolves is dependent on time. (I Know of no studies that measure the time, as soon as the oxygen dissolves it begins to oxidize making measurement hard)
Oxygen.JPG

*For the above I am assuming 5 gallons of beer in a 7 gallon carboy, dropping from 70°F to 32°F, all air pickup (ie no CO2 pressure, no sanitizer suckup)
 
Take a look at this thread for methods of positive pressure cold crashing. I use conicals, but Daytripper has an elegant solution for carboys. Jaybird has a CO2 "trap" that MAY help some if you want to continue to just use a blow off in this thread.

If you are going to respond and tell me that you do not have an oxidation issue and you take no precautions, thing about how many "my hop aroma fads fast" "my beer tastes sweet" "my beer has gotten darker with age" threads you see and ask yourself if maybe you could be making better beer and just don't know it. :tank::tank: For a split batch take care of O2 ingress in one carboy, properly purge your keg, ect. and compare them .... If you don't find a large difference please come back and scold me for wasting your time and I'll send you some beer to compensate :fro:
 
Thanks for all the responses. I am familiar w cold crashing. Cold crash all my brews before kegging. Just with this style being cloudy I didn't want to clear the beer. first time brewing an IPA of this descent. I do always cold crash in the fermenter. Always slowly crash it too. 10 degrees a day until 35. For this beer I'm crashing at 40 degrees and will carb at 40 as well.
 
Thanks for all the responses. I am familiar w cold crashing. Cold crash all my brews before kegging. Just with this style being cloudy I didn't want to clear the beer. first time brewing an IPA of this descent. I do always cold crash in the fermenter. Always slowly crash it too. 10 degrees a day until 35. For this beer I'm crashing at 40 degrees and will carb at 40 as well.

Hey, hoppy.

This discussion has been popping up more and more, my "book" on O2 wasn't directly pointed at you but a collimation of multiple threads on this topic. Now that I finally wrote it out I'll probably copy paste a couple times. :ban: :off:

The time it takes you to cold crash doesn't matter for the volume change, the longer it crashes the more time for O2 to fall into solution. You either pull in sanitizer or air regardless of the time it takes for the temperature change. The oxygen will work against your hoppy IPA, I'd hold off on cold crashing. Keg into a nice properly purged keg, then crash in there.
 
Thanks jddevinn. Nothing like a good bit of science.

Don't personally see that much of a problem sucking in sanitizer(in terms of volume it wouldn't be too much) and with StarSan(my current sanitizer) the shear volume of foam that is in the fermenter after cleaning....
 
If the fermeneter is filled with CO2 from fermentation, what harm would there be in sucking in a relatively tiny amount of air during cold crashing? CO2 is heavier than "air" and thus should create a protective blanket against the incoming air.

If you're worried about oxidation from cold crashing but not worried about the exposure to oxygen in the bottling bucket and in the bottles, then you should rethink your priorities (not applicable to kegging).
 
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