Clove from WY3711

[hoptualBrew]

Recently (brew day 06/20/13) used WY3711 French Saison smack pack on a house saison I am trying to perfect and got yeast character that is way off from my expectations.

Problem;

Got a bunch of clove that is really reminiscent of a Hefeweizen/Saison hybrid, not feeling it at all. I desire a mild funk, peppery, spicy, citrus character that is described by Wyeast.

Read this yeast was highly active and quickly attenuative so I did not make a starter other than the smack pack.

Recipe was;

O.G. 1.052
F.G. 1.006
Pilsen, Vienna, Rye malt, with a dash of acidulated malt.
Styrian Goldings, Styrian Celeja, and Motueka hops
Fermented at 65 F for 7 days then raised to ambient over the course of 2 days. After 9 days, the beer was at 1.006, then kegged and cold crashed for 14 days.

My thoughts;

Maybe do a 500ml yeast starter to reduce some phenolic production, lower temp a few degrees to 62 F. But at the same time, Hefe yeast strains produce clove character at lower temps and banana at higher temps. Would I get less clove at lower or higher temps here? Ideas?

 

[Hex23]

Did a Two Brothers Domain Du Page clone with 3711 and regretted it. I got the same thing out of 3711 you did. I did a starter but did ferment with an ambient of 60-62F, so maybe that's what lead to it. But generally I'm not that happy with that yeast for the strong phenolics it kicked off.

 

[tagz]

I would definitely make a starter, you always want healthy yeast. Then, ferment 68 ramped to 80 over the course of a week. You'll get more of the profile that you are looking for. I fermented low my first time around and I was not a fan, tasted like a very tame belgian. My last two batches, I followed the above schedule and they are fantastic. My last batch I actually started at 70, no hint of fusels at all.

 

[tagz]

I'd recommend the cottage house saison recipe if you're looking for another direction.. Really tasty. I brewed it without the sugar though because 3711 will tear it down to 1.004 regardless. I also subbed ahtanum at whirlpool in mine and the flavor complemented the yeast well.

 

[reed1911]

Yup, lots of clove with the 3711, I use it for holiday beers, I like the Belgium strain for most of my saisons

 

[hoptualBrew]

I would definitely make a starter, you always want healthy yeast. Then, ferment 68 ramped to 80 over the course of a week. You'll get more of the profile that you are looking for. I fermented low my first time around and I was not a fan, tasted like a very tame belgian. My last two batches, I followed the above schedule and they are fantastic. My last batch I actually started at 70, no hint of fusels at all.

What kind of yeast character does this fermentation schedule produce?

 

[chickypad]

I've used it at 71* (up to 74 at tail end of fermentation) and found it really nice - spicy but not clove. Some fruit in the aroma but not overpowering. I'm pretty sensitive to phenolics and I don't care for German hefes at all. I'd give it a try a little warmer.

 

[tagz]

What kind of yeast character does this fermentation schedule produce?

I get a citrusy, grapefruit/pineapple flavor with some spice. For me the spice is less pepper than just a light prickly funk in the nose. The fruity citrus is definitely the dominant player and the spice-like aromatic is just enough to tell you it's a saison.

 

[JPFuller]

I've used it at 71* (up to 74 at tail end of fermentation) and found it really nice - spicy but not clove. Some fruit in the aroma but not overpowering. I'm pretty sensitive to phenolics and I don't care for German hefes at all. I'd give it a try a little warmer.

Agreed with the above, 3711 at 71-74F is a great yeast with no clove notes at all. I know that many ramp up even higher than that, later in the ferment, but I haven't found it necessary.

There is a really long thread singing the praises of this yeast if you are looking for more opinions.

 

[TriggerFingers]

I have used 3711 multiple times with cooler temps (mid 60's) and warmer temps (mid 70's). 3711 does have a Belgian character (Citrusy with a hint of spice), but when you really have clove in a beer its pretty pronounced as clove--I usually can "smell" it before I can taste it (and it smells like you threw a couple of cloves into your glass- very pronounced). That being said, I have never encountered clove phenols with that strain--ever. Could be that it was way too warm when pitching (which is odd because some say you can get it up to the 90's without off flavors) or a possible infection. Give it some time in the bottle and it should go away. If worst comes to worse, give it some friends that like Belgian/German beers. 3711 is one of my favorite strains ever! Personally, I wouldn't give up on that yeast just yet. What you could do next time (and I highly recommend this when trying new yeasts) is make 5 gallons, but split it between 2 carboys and use 2 different yeasts. The only other Belgian yeast I have used and really liked was 3787 with a quad. The Belgian character is very mild and attenuation was very good (quad down to 1.015). Every 3711 beer I have done gets down under 1.010 everytime (regardless of starting OG).