Clone of dogfish head ale

[samuelcollins]

I'm going to be doing my first attempt at A dogfish head clone brew. It has an initial mash temperature of 122°, mashing. Then, raise the temperature to 149 for mash duration. Here's the problem I'm running into: I've never brewed with a variable mashing temp. I mean, I've always got my strike water to a certain temp and went with, calculating for the drop after mash in. I used a 10 gallon Rubbermaid for a mash tun. Any suggestions?

One other thing I should have mentioned: this has a mash out temperature of 170 degrees. Would this just be the temp of my sparge water? Could I do it that way? I have a brewpot that also serves as a mash tun, complete with ball valve, built in thermometer, and false bottom. Would you recommend I just mash in this so I can control the temp through the 122 to 170 degree cycle?
But that brings on another question here: if I did that, how would sparging be handled? The recipe I am working with does not give a recommended temp on sparge water.

 

[jammin]

Id stick with your cooler and use boiling water to raise your mash temps.

Here is a handy infusion calculator: http://www.brewersfriend.com/quick-infusion/

 

[samuelcollins]

When you add boiling water with the infusion calculator, I am assuming you drain off some if the runnings, reheat those to temp,and cycle it that way. This way you aren't overly diluting your wort. Is this accurate? I mean, at one point I'll have to raise the cooler from a 149 rest to 170 for mashout.

 

[brewmeister13]

From the way I understand it your 122F rest will be a bit on the thick side. Then you use hot water, not wort, to raise the temp to your 149F rest. The 149 rest will also be the water to grist ratio you are looking for, say 1.33qts/lb or whatever it is. Then you will add more boiling water, while stirring like an sob, to raise to mashout. After this you use as much water as need to get to your pre-boil volume for sparging. Beersmith has good software to help figure temps and volumes for this. Also, remember that not all water boils at the same temperature and this will effect how much water is needed for mashout.

Other wise you are performing a decoction mash, by removing wort and boiling it.

I've never done a multi step infusion though, so hopefully someone with more practical experience can help you out.

 

[brewmeister13]

Id stick with your cooler and use boiling water to raise your mash temps.

Here is a handy infusion calculator: http://www.brewersfriend.com/quick-infusion/

I think this one might help out more for his application. http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash/ just play with the first rest ratio until you can get your 149 rest ratio where you want it.

 

[samuelcollins]

Ok thanks. I've played with the calculator. Of course I don't want to be working with more then seven gallons for a 5 gallon batch (105 minute boil on the wort later). So with the large amounts of boiling water I will need to add to hit rests I'd imagine I'll have to heat up some of the runnings and add them back in.

 

[samuelcollins]

Ok, I've never done this multiple infusion before, so if I'm off in La La land, let me know. This dogfish ale clone takes about 18 lbs of grain (16 German pils, 2lbs amber malt) so it is heavy! Doing this in my cooler mash tun and after sparge plan is to have 6.85 gal of wort for 105 minute boil (I could lose a gallon and half). Directions say mash in at 122 degrees. Using the calculator to 65 degree grain, and to keep small, requires 9 quarts boiling water to get us to 122. That's going to be thick! Then, for about an hour need it at 149 degrees in my cooler. Using the calc it looks like I'd need 5.4 quarts of boiling to hit this temp. So I am currently just under 4 gallons in the tun on 18 pounds of grit. It sits an hour. For mashout, it calls for 170 degree temp. The calc says to raise from 149 to 170, I need to infuse 9 quarts of boiling water. Doing so, I am now at 5.85 gallons. I don't want to go more than 6.85 of pre boil wort, so I've only a gallon for the rinse process (also at 170 degrees). This doesn't seem right to me. Can anyone point out where I am going wrong?

 

[samuelcollins]

Wait I see where I am going wrong, greatly underestimating my water loss:
With this much grain I'll loose about 2.5 gallons (some is just a dead spot in the cooler, rest is in the grain). So there's 2.5 gal gone before sparge and on a 105 minute boil with my kettle I'll actually lose about 2.25 gallons. Factor in wort cooling contraction, I will losing about 5.125 of water off the wort. Oops.

 

[jammin]

If you mash that 18lbs of grain @ 1.25 quarts/lb - you're gonna fill up roughly 7.3 gallons of your MLT. That's only gonna leave you with enough room for about 2.5 gallons of infusion water - and that will leave you with very little room to stir.

If you mash in @ 122 (with a 1.25 Quart/lb ratio), then you will need 2.8 gallons of boiling water to raise your mash to 149.


If I were you, I would mash in @ 1.15 quarts/lb. This will leave plenty of room for your infusion to raise the mash to 149.

According to my rough calculations, you could use the following mash schedule:

1.) 20.7 quarts of 132F strike water and 18lbs of 65F grist for your initial 122F rest.

2.) Add 11.6 quarts boiling water assuming you lose 3F during your first rest to raise the mash temp to 149F.


I don't think you'll have room for a mash out (170F) infusion but that's no big deal. If you do a good job sparging, your efficiency shouldn't take much of a hit.

Cheers


Edit: Are you familiar with batch sparging? If not - there are plenty of "how to" articles on the site.

 

[Yooper]

First, you don't need a protein rest with that grainbill, and can actually hurt your head retention with one!

I'd skip a step mash and do a single infusion mash at 150.

 

[brewmeister13]

Wow, is that for a 5 gallon batch? If so you are looking at a beer with an OG around 1.100. This may be pushing the limits of your current equipments capabilities, though the beautiful part about homebrew is that where there is a will, there is a way. Your idea of doing a hybrid decoction/infusion mash may be the best route, but since I have 0 experience and would only be making wild guesses I'll wish you luck and hope for someone better than I to help you out.

 

[jammin]

Wow, is that for a 5 gallon batch? If so you are looking at a beer with an OG around 1.100. This may be pushing the limits of your current equipments capabilities, though the beautiful part about homebrew is that where there is a will, there is a way. Your idea of doing a hybrid decoction/infusion mash may be the best route, but since I have 0 experience and would only be making wild guesses I'll wish you luck and hope for someone better than I to help you out.

A 6 gallon batch (ending kettle volume) allows for wort loss to trub and hops and still have 5.5 gallons in the fermenter. With this batch size, he should expect ~ 1.078 @ 70% efficiency.

OP - you're gonna need a healthy pitch of yeast! http://yeastcalc.com/

 

[samuelcollins]

Thanks everyone!

Yep, here's the recipe I'm working from:



90-Minute IPA clone
(Dogfish Head)
(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.088 FG = 1.021
IBU = 90 SRM = 13 ABV = 8.7%
Ingredients
16.5 lbs. (7.5 kg) Pilsner malt
1.66 lbs. (0.75 kg) amber malt (35 °L)
16 AAU Amarillo hops (90–0 mins)
(2.0 oz./57 g of 8.0% alpha acids)
8.0 AAU Simcoe hops (90–0 mins)
(0.62 oz./17 g of 13% alpha acids)
8.0 AAU Warrior hops (90–0 mins)
(0.53 oz./15 g of 15% alpha acids)
1 oz. (28 g) Amarillo hops (dry hops)
0.5 oz (14 g) Simcoe hops (dry hops)
0.5 oz. (14 g) Warrior hops (dry hops)
1 tsp. Irish moss (15 mins)
Wyeast 1099 (Whitbread Ale) yeast
0.75 cups corn sugar (for priming)

Step by Step
Mash in at 122 °F (50 °C), then raise the temperature to 149 °F (65 °C) until conversion is complete. Mash out to 170 °F (77 °C). Boil the wort for 105 minutes. Starting with 90 minutes left in the boil, begin slowly and evenly adding hops to the kettle. (This works out to a little over 0.25 oz. (7 g) of hops every 7.5 minutes.) Start fermentation at 71 °F (22 °C) and let raise to 74 °F (23 °C). Dry hop in secondary at 71 °F for 3–5 days, then cool to 32 °F (0 °C).



http://byo.com/english-scottish-strong-ale/item/153-attack-of-the-hop-clones

 

[samuelcollins]

If you mash that 18lbs of grain @ 1.25 quarts/lb - you're gonna fill up roughly 7.3 gallons of your MLT. That's only gonna leave you with enough room for about 2.5 gallons of infusion water - and that will leave you with very little room to stir.

If you mash in @ 122 (with a 1.25 Quart/lb ratio), then you will need 2.8 gallons of boiling water to raise your mash to 149.

If I were you, I would mash in @ 1.15 quarts/lb. This will leave plenty of room for your infusion to raise the mash to 149.

According to my rough calculations, you could use the following mash schedule:

1.) 20.7 quarts of 132F strike water and 18lbs of 65F grist for your initial 122F rest.

2.) Add 11.6 quarts boiling water assuming you lose 3F during your first rest to raise the mash temp to 149F.

I don't think you'll have room for a mash out (170F) infusion but that's no big deal. If you do a good job sparging, your efficiency shouldn't take much of a hit.

Cheers

Edit: Are you familiar with batch sparging? If not - there are plenty of "how to" articles on the site.

I like your idea of sparging with 170 degree water, and skipping the 170 mashout. I will do that. Yours is figured for temp drop after first rest (good idea) and so I am coming to 8.075 gallons in the tun before sparging. To hit my target volume i would then be batch sparging with 2.05 gallons of water. I'll lose 2.5 in the tun and another 2.5 or so during boil and wort shrinkage (guesstimates, we'll see how it actually plays)..

 

[chickypad]

Unless you are specifically using a brand of undermodified malt I would take Yooper's advice and just do the single infusion mash at 149. I see no reason for a step mash here, and as she pointed out doing a rest with well modified malts may hurt the body and head retention.

 

[dcbw]

I just brewed 15 gallons of 90 minute two weeks ago using scottland's recipe from the HBTalk recipe database which specifies a single conversion rest at 149/150. The flavor is spot on before dry hopping. I wouldn't sweat multiple rests, just try it at 149 and it'll turn out great.

 

[samuelcollins]

I just brewed 15 gallons of 90 minute two weeks ago using scottland's recipe from the HBTalk recipe database which specifies a single conversion rest at 149/150. The flavor is spot on before dry hopping. I wouldn't sweat multiple rests, just try it at 149 and it'll turn out great.

Wonderful! I will take your advice. Can I ask what the OG and ABV were?

 

[samuelcollins]

Ok so I am getting ready to brew a high gravity beer. Target is around 1.088 OG. I've got a new smack pack of Wyeast, and understand I need to do a starter. Never have done one.
Using Mr. Malty app, it tells me I need two packs in 3.79 quarts for a simple starter.
So, does this mean I buy another smack pack, some light DME, get a gallon container and pour 2 packs in, let sit in a cool place for 3 or four days before brew day? I really don't want to under pitch.
Oh, and if I'm right, how much DME do I use? Thanks for any help. I've always just seen people smack and pitch, but I know that wont cut it....unless I use 4 packs!

 

[dcbw]

Wonderful! I will take your advice. Can I ask what the OG and ABV were?

1.079 (target was 1.085) and it went down to 1.016 for an ABV of something like 8.3%. But I don't trust my OG hydrometer reading a lot because we were reading the a bit hot (like 95F) and they're known to suck higher than about 75.