Citrus Kolsch help

[MSK_Chess]

Great ones! I would like a little help with a Kolsch recipe. To date I think I have brewed three maybe four batches of Kolsch. Normally I use Spalt and Tettnang. Time before last I used Northern Brewer (German) and Crystal. What I would really like is to brew a Kolsch with a little hint of citrus, just enough to make itself noticeable. Something pineapple, not sweet and tropical, but a little on the bitter side. I have an idea that if I brew as normal but exchange some of the late editions, typically five to ten minute and flame out editions with an American hop that gives citrus flavours this might work. I have some reservations though, Kolsch is a slightly malt accentuated beer and maybe by adding a little emphasis on hops it will detract and I will just get a kind of mismatched mush. Any advice on how to achieve a subtle citrus flavour or whether you think it will work would be really appreciated.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

You could try boiling 2 ounces of fresh Orange zest for 10 minutes in your kettle. I do something similar for my Belgian Witbier to add a hint of citrus, in fact you could also add to that 2 ounces of dried bitter Orange peel to add more complexity.

 

[MSK_Chess]

I like that idea, yes, bitter Orange peel, yes, that makes sense. Very interesting I was thinking of maybe Liberty hops too? do they give a citrus flavour? I don't want to use Cascade as I have a Cascade Single hop on tap at present.

 

[Hanglow]

What yeast are you using out of interest? I bought a load of dried Kolsch yeast from some guys in Glasgow off ebay, called Crossmyloof Brewery - I don't think they are a brewery though . All their yeast are made in Germany, and they are very good value. I've not tried it yet though, some people on the other UK forums have.

I'm assuming it's the same as the Colonia F koslch yeast or K-97

 

[Hanglow]

Oh if you want to add a citrus note, you can try using some crushed coriander

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2010.tb00428.x/pdf

not too much though, it would get a bit perfumey

 

[mirthfuldragon]

Maybe something like half an ounce of Amarillo or Citra at 5 or 10 minutes. Or even less - 1/4 ounce? I would err on the side of too little, then taste it at 7 or 10 days, and dry-hop if you want more. I would be careful though - the big American hops can have triple or quadruple the alpha and beta acid of their European cousins.

 

[MSK_Chess]

What yeast are you using out of interest? I bought a load of dried Kolsch yeast from some guys in Glasgow off ebay, called Crossmyloof Brewery - I don't think they are a brewery though . All their yeast are made in Germany, and they are very good value. I've not tried it yet though, some people on the other UK forums have.

I'm assuming it's the same as the Colonia F koslch yeast or K-97

LOL, yes I don't know any brewery at Cross-My-Loof and I have been there many times. Saying that though I do think that he is attached to a brewery somewhere in the city because he has told me that they store their hops in a huge freezer. I bought hops once or twice, quality was good. But to your question, I use WhiteLabs German ale/Kolsch, I forget the code, maybe WLP029, something like that.

 

[MSK_Chess]

Oh if you want to add a citrus note, you can try using some crushed coriander

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2010.tb00428.x/pdf

not too much though, it would get a bit perfumey

wow its very technical :rockin:

 

[rhys333]

I just brewed a pale ale with Chinook and Sterling hops. Together they come across very orangey. Might work for you in a Kolsch too.

 

[MSK_Chess]

Maybe something like half an ounce of Amarillo or Citra at 5 or 10 minutes. Or even less - 1/4 ounce? I would err on the side of too little, then taste it at 7 or 10 days, and dry-hop if you want more. I would be careful though - the big American hops can have triple or quadruple the alpha and beta acid of their European cousins.

Yes I have some Chinook and Amarillo and Simcoe form a previous IPA. Very pungent!! Citra I have never tried. Sounds fantastic! My favourite is Mosaic although its quite tropical, tangerine. I was wondering about Galaxy, what it might be like. There is a brewery in my city which makes a citrus flavoured lager, its not an IPA or anything like that, just a lager with a subtle citrus flavour, its super tasty, crisp but with hints of lime or grapefruit.

 

[RedlegEd]

I like that idea, yes, bitter Orange peel, yes, that makes sense. Very interesting I was thinking of maybe Liberty hops too? do they give a citrus flavour? I don't want to use Cascade as I have a Cascade Single hop on tap at present.

Hi. You might want to balance your bitter Orange peel with a bit of sweet Orange peel (say 2:1 bitter to sweet.) Also, NZ Wakatu hops are supposed to offer a flavor and aroma of lime. @MapleGroveAleWorks on HBT makes a German Pils called Wakka Wakka Wakka! that uses Wakatu hops. Hope this helps. Ed

 

[MSK_Chess]

I just brewed a pale ale with Chinook and Sterling hops. Together they come across very orangey. Might work for you in a Kolsch too.

wow that sounds interesting. I have some chinook left over, its well pungent. I made my teenagers smell the natural goodness and they said it was more stinky than weed! Sterling I have never tried.

 

[MSK_Chess]

Hi. You might want to balance your bitter Orange peel with a bit of sweet Orange peel (say 2:1 bitter to sweet.) Also, NZ Wakatu hops are supposed to offer a flavor and aroma of lime. @MapleGroveAleWorks on HBT makes a German Pils called Wakka Wakka Wakka! that uses Wakatu hops. Hope this helps. Ed

Wonderful, truly wonderful, thanks I think this is an excellent solution. Sweet orange and bitter orange and some of those Kiwi hops. Sounds amazing.

 

[RedlegEd]

Wonderful, truly wonderful, thanks I think this is an excellent solution. Sweet orange and bitter orange and some of those Kiwi hops. Sounds amazing.

Glad you like it. As noted in an earlier post, be careful of the amount of Orange peel and/or coriander seed. A little bit goes a very long way. I've made a 5 gal version (subbing Ahtanum into the late additions) Biermuncher's Orange Kolsch and it came out great. Note in the original 11 gallon recipe, it only calls for 0.75 oz of each bitter and sweet Orange peel. Please let us know what you finally come up with and how it came out. Ed

 

[MSK_Chess]

Glad you like it. As noted in an earlier post, be careful of the amount of Orange peel and/or coriander seed. A little bit goes a very long way. I've made a 5 gal version (subbing Ahtanum into the late additions) Biermuncher's Orange Kolsch and it came out great. Note in the original 11 gallon recipe, it only calls for 0.75 oz of each bitter and sweet Orange peel. Please let us know what you finally come up with and how it came out. Ed

Sure thing. I just ordered the Magnum and Wakatu hops, mmmmm - Orange Kolsch even the sound of it is mouthwatering

 

[Ashevillain]

Hoppy Kolshes brewed with newer hop strains are definitely gaining traction and for good reason.

Honestly just sub any noble hop that you would normally use for a combo like citra, amarillo, galaxy, etc.

A little aside on the malt bill, i'd recommend no crystal, ~85% german pils, 8-10% wheat, and ~5% vienna. Its a good combo that accentuates the slight grainy sweetness of pilsner.

 

[Hanglow]

LOL, yes I don't know any brewery at Cross-My-Loof and I have been there many times. Saying that though I do think that he is attached to a brewery somewhere in the city because he has told me that they store their hops in a huge freezer. I bought hops once or twice, quality was good. But to your question, I use WhiteLabs German ale/Kolsch, I forget the code, maybe WLP029, something like that.

I always prefer liquid strains, but I'm rather lazy so I hope this dry one works well

 

[MSK_Chess]

Hoppy Kolshes brewed with newer hop strains are definitely gaining traction and for good reason.

Honestly just sub any noble hop that you would normally use for a combo like citra, amarillo, galaxy, etc.

A little aside on the malt bill, i'd recommend no crystal, ~85% german pils, 8-10% wheat, and ~5% vienna. Its a good combo that accentuates the slight grainy sweetness of pilsner.

Yeah I don't use crystal or wheat myself but prefer carapils/dextrine sometimes Munich. I think it must be a great combo the crispness of the style and the citrus flavours of the hops. The trick must be to get a good balance between the maltiness and citrus flavours of the hops.

 

[MSK_Chess]

I always prefer liquid strains, but I'm rather lazy so I hope this dry one works well

I had an interesting experience with Mangrove Jacks when I re-pitched some from the trub. It didn't attenuate and left the beer sweet. I thought perhaps I did not pitch enough and tried it again on a low gravity beer but it still left it sweet. One cannot blame Mangrove Jacks because they do state that its not intended that you reuse their yeast but since then I been using Whitelabs yeasts exclusively with ok results.

 

[ernie271]

I did one a few years back (and it did amazing in a competition oddly enough) As mentioned above, (I used my usual Kolsch recipe) and added orange and lemon zest (some bitter and sweet) at about ten minutes from the end of the boil. I also switched my usual hops for all cascade. Great citrus punch to that one!

 

[billd75]

I found this post by accident and never realized that different types of hops, can add these "fruity" type flavours. Fascinating, cause I didn't think this was a thing. I always thought hops was more general in it's character, but no, certainly not. The variety of flavour it can add, is astounding. This is why I love this site. Such expertise here and helpful people. On the topic of hops, it made me look up the one I bought recently, on a whim (didn't even know what I was doing, but wanted to dry hop my Cooper's Lager can kit), so I bought Cashmere hops. After reading these posts, I decided to look it up. It's a hybrid of Northern Brewer and Cascade hops and adds a citrus flavour of Lemon, Lime and melon. So that might also be one, to consider. Here is a link to the characteristics of Cashmere hops. I am really liking this hoplist site too. Very detailed info. and even history on each type of hops. http://www.hopslist.com/hops/dual-purpose-hops/cashmere/

 

[KidLightning]

If you're looking to stick with German hop varieties, there are a number with citrus characteristics, including more traditional ones like the Hallertau varietals Hallertauer and Mittelfruh.

There are also Opal and Saphir, with citrus notes, and a newer hop (descended from Cascade) called Mandarina Bavaria, which, as its name suggest, imparts strong mandarin orange characteristics.

 

[Aotidae]

Try idaho 7. It has pineapple for sure but is a very mild hop.

 

[slark1]

I am a home brewer from the UK and have been brewing for 30 odd years. Please, please, don't mess with a Kolsch, it is what it is and needs no modification., it is perfection in itself. My own recipe was given to me 4 years ago by the head brewer of a small Kolsch brouhous in Cologne and is suprb. I will gladly share the recipe with you if you like, you only have to ask. The secret is in the hops and yeast.

 

[ratinator]

If your looking for a bitter pineapple, i second galaxy

 

[rhys333]

I am a home brewer from the UK and have been brewing for 30 odd years. Please, please, don't mess with a Kolsch, it is what it is and needs no modification., it is perfection in itself. My own recipe was given to me 4 years ago by the head brewer of a small Kolsch brouhous in Cologne and is suprb. I will gladly share the recipe with you if you like, you only have to ask. The secret is in the hops and yeast.

Please share there recipe!

 

[RedlegEd]

I am a home brewer from the UK and have been brewing for 30 odd years. Please, please, don't mess with a Kolsch, it is what it is and needs no modification., it is perfection in itself. My own recipe was given to me 4 years ago by the head brewer of a small Kolsch brouhous in Cologne and is suprb. I will gladly share the recipe with you if you like, you only have to ask. The secret is in the hops and yeast.

Please share there recipe!

+1. Yes, please do! Ed

 

[MSK_Chess]

I am a home brewer from the UK and have been brewing for 30 odd years. Please, please, don't mess with a Kolsch, it is what it is and needs no modification., it is perfection in itself. My own recipe was given to me 4 years ago by the head brewer of a small Kolsch brouhous in Cologne and is suprb. I will gladly share the recipe with you if you like, you only have to ask. The secret is in the hops and yeast.

This is fine and I have brewed many orthodox Kolsch style beers with noble German hops, however I also want to try a variation on the theme.

I don't want a lot of fruit like in a session IPA, but just enough. Mosiac is my hop to go to when I want fruit but its too much for something as delicate as a Kolsch in my opinion. I settled for New Zealand Wakatu hops as its descended from Mittelfrüh but contains allegedly some citrus flavours. My Kolsch will still be malt forward but with subtle hints of citrus, at least that what I am aiming for.

I don't have a problem with experimenting in this way. Brewing with recipes when they are tried and tested is fine but sometimes we imagine a beer that we would like to drink and try to create that with ingredients that we have at our disposal.

 

[RedlegEd]

I don't want a lot of fruit like in a session IPA, but just enough. Mosiac is my hop to go to when I want fruit but its too much for something as delicate as a Kolsch in my opinion. I settled for New Zealand Wakatu hops as its descended from Mittelfrüh but contains allegedly some citrus flavours. My Kolsch will still be malt forward but with subtle hints of citrus, at least that what I am aiming for.

Hi. I'm still hoping you let us know how your citrus Kölsch comes out, especially with the Kiwi Wakatu hops. BTW, I bought a couple of ounces of it myself to try... pending the outcome of your beer. Ed

 

[gophergoat]

I just brewed a kolsch with 20% munich and 10% wheat then stuck with tettnang and perle.

I want to reuse the yeast for a hoppier beer. This post is perfectly timed as I am also wondering how hops or even a pale ale would react to the yeast (I used WLP029 White Labs). I'd like to hear how your's turns out.

 

[rhys333]

I really like a traditional kolsch, but I'm planning a citrusy kolsch this time around. Thinking something like:

77% 2 Row
15% Wheat
8% Vienna
0.5oz Cascade @ 60 & 1oz Cascade @ 10 (6 gal)
WY 2565

I'm sneaking that wheat in there to support the cascade hops and help make a nice creamy head.

 

[MSK_Chess]

Hi. I'm still hoping you let us know how your citrus Kölsch comes out, especially with the Kiwi Wakatu hops. BTW, I bought a couple of ounces of it myself to try... pending the outcome of your beer. Ed

Hi RedlegEd, I might just about have room for it now. My Kegerator only fits two kegs at a time and I just filled one with Vienna lager last week. But ok, why mess around, will begin the yeast starter this very hour!

 

[billd75]

If you're looking to stick with German hop varieties, there are a number with citrus characteristics, including more traditional ones like the Hallertau varietals Hallertauer and Mittelfruh.

There are also Opal and Saphir, with citrus notes, and a newer hop (descended from Cascade) called Mandarina Bavaria, which, as its name suggest, imparts strong mandarin orange characteristics.

Ooooo, that Mandarina Bavaria sounds good. I love the taste of Mandarin Oranges.

 

[MSK_Chess]

Ok here is what I am going for. All areas fit the style as far as I can discern. If anything seems untoward out please let me know -

Wakatu Kolsch - Kölsch
================================================================================
Batch Size: 5.5 gal
Boil Size: 7.4 gal
Boil Time: 90min
Efficiency: 70%
OG: 1.048
FG: 1.012
ABV: 4.7%
Bitterness: 25 IBUs (Tinseth)
Color: 4 SRM (Morey)

Fermentables
================================================================================
Pilsner (2 Row) 9.3lb
Munich Malt 12.4oz
Vienna Malt 5.3 oz
Total grain: 10.4lb

Hops
================================================================================
Magnum 15.3% 0.4 oz 60min 17IBU's
Wakatu 7.2% 0.7oz 15min 8IBU's
Wakatu 7.2% 1 oz Flame Out

Yeast
================================================================================
WLP029 - German Ale/Kölsch Yeast