Citrus in secondary

[WoolyBooger]

I am getting ready to brew an American IPA that I will be dry hopping with 1/2 oz Summit and 1/2 oz Cascade hops. I am thinking about adding some orange and lemon zest on the secondary as well, but I have no idea how much (if any) of each to add. I am pretty new to brewing and any thoughts on this from more seasoned brewers would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Wisluggo]

My suggestions, though I am new too
1) a nice lemon flavor can be done with 2 lemons, peeled into long strips (skin, no white pith)
2) not sure how orange and lemon would play together

 

[Calichusetts]

I agree with Wisluggo that orange and lemon could be a strange combination but it could be fantastic...let us know. I would zest 3-4 oranges as well and add it to the secondary...enough to fill your hand

 

[WoolyBooger]

I like citrus notes in IPAs but I would like to move them more toward orange rather than grapefruit. I have never tasted an IPA that used anything but hops to achieve those citrus flavors... Maybe I should take that as a sign. I just thought that this may be a way to skew that citrus profile a bit.

 

[alestateyall]

Dry hopping with Chinook gives a nice orange flavor IMHO.

 

[KuntzBrewing]

Citra hops, the flavor/aroma is in the name lmao

 

[WoolyBooger]

Citra hops, the flavor/aroma is in the name lmao

Good point. I'm using a brewcraft kit and the hops Included are 1oz/each of chinook, ahtanum, cascade, summit, and Columbus. My planned hop additions are as follows:

1oz. Chinook 60
1oz. Ahtanum 15
1oz. Columbus 15
1/2oz. Summit at Flameout
1/2oz. Cascade at Flameout
1/2oz. Summit Dry in secondary 7days
1/2oz. Cascade Dry 7 in secondary days

Additional flavor:
1oz. Lemon zest in secondary 7 days
1oz. Orange zest in secondary 7 days

Anything sound to out of whack here?

 

[usfmikeb]

Stick with Wisluggo's recommendation on how to zest the citrus. If you do it the traditional way, which is essentially shredded, it creates two complications.

First, all those little itty bitty pieces of zest will be difficult to clear. Personally, I'm not one to really care about whether my beer is clear, I just want it to taste good. However, you might have a different preference.

Second, it fully releases the citrus oils. Small amounts from "dry peeling" is okay, but a larger amount *could* create issues with head retention, and I like me some head.

 

[kevokie]

Sounds like it will taste pretty good. The only thing I would really worry about is whether or not you will be able to taste the orange and lemon from the peel. The hops are pretty aromatic and I would think they will overpower the zest.

 

[WoolyBooger]

Sounds like it will taste pretty good. The only thing I would really worry about is whether or not you will be able to taste the orange and lemon from the peel. The hops are pretty aromatic and I would think they will overpower the zest.

I thought about adding more zest, but I don't want to go the other way with it and have the citrus overpower the hops. I have never used any zest in beer so I don't know how much it will take to be noticeable. How much zest would you add?

 

[WoolyBooger]

Update, I added the zest from 2 oranges and 2 lemons (soaked in vodka to sterilize) and the dry hops. I am bottling this weekend so I will grab a taste then. I will post the results.

 

[WoolyBooger]

I bottled yesterday and snuck a taste... It's really good. The citrus is right up front with a pleasant bitterness and then it fades to a fruity hop aroma. Delicious, a little tamed down for an IPA, but delicious! I can't wait till its carbed up!

 

[fishician]

Interesting, haven't done an IPA with citrus but it sounds like it has lots of potential. For what it's worth, I just recently did a blood orange hefe. I zested 2 blood oranges and used the meat (fruit) from 4 as a dry hop and it turned out great. Its been mentioned in this thread, but don't add the white part of the peel as it will add excess bitterness. Keep us posted! My guess is that the citrus may mellow a bit but will hopefully be great!

 

[sweetcell]

i've only ever used citrus zest in the boil, so i too am interested in how well the dry-hopping (dry-peeling?) works.

i'd expect the citrus to fade a little with time, so drink 'em young. this is turn implies that this technique is probably best for lower- to mid-gravity IPAs.

 

[RitsiGators]

Dogfishhead actually does an IPA which they add lemon zest to help add some more citrus flavor. I had it on tap at their restaurant and it was pretty decent, so i'm sure that yours should come out well!

 

[WoolyBooger]

Just tried my test bottle (I always fill a plastic soda bottle and squeeze the air out of it as a carbonation tester) after one week of carb time. The citrus has already faded just a bit, but the hops are almost perfectly balanced with the citrus now. I cannot wait until this batch fully carbs up and I can get a true idea of what I've created. But so far, I'm impressed!

 

[y2jrock60]

I brewed a Hefe a few months back and used about 1/2 oz. of the pre-dried orange peels you get at the brew shop. It was a little much. The beer had a sharp bitter orange bite at the finish. I would only use a very small amount.

 

[sweetcell]

I brewed a Hefe a few months back and used about 1/2 oz. of the pre-dried orange peels you get at the brew shop. It was a little much. The beer had a sharp bitter orange bite at the finish. I would only use a very small amount.

Zest bought at the shop typically has too much pith. You really need to DIY on this one, zest your own citrus and avoid the white stuff under the outer skin.

 

[WoolyBooger]

I agree. I used a knife rather than a grater type zester. I just very carefully cut off the outer layer of zest and on the spots where I did get some of the white pith, I went back and removed it prior to putting it into the carboy.

 

[BigRob]

Best tool for zest is a microplane rasp, they've got some smaller ones out now, but even a full sized version is only 12-15 bucks. It cuts shallow, so you have to actively try to get pith.

 

[Calichusetts]

Best tool for zest is a microplane rasp, they've got some smaller ones out now, but even a full sized version is only 12-15 bucks. It cuts shallow, so you have to actively try to get pith.

Microplane for the win...it also usually keeps the zest on in the back of it fairly well so you don't get zest everywhere and can easily collect it for additions

 

[WoolyBooger]

Microplane for the win...it also usually keeps the zest on in the back of it fairly well so you don't get zest everywhere and can easily collect it for additions

I'll have to try that next time. Based on the preliminary tastes, this one will be worth brewing again!

 

[WoolyBooger]

Ok, the final verdict... This is a fantastic brew! The bitterness is there without being too overpowering and the hop aroma is wonderfully complex. The citrus is subtle and really backs up the hops, adding to the complexity. Long story short, I will undoubtedly brew it again.

 

[usfmikeb]

Microplanes are great, but would be potentially messy in this application.

 

[DrBuzz]

I know this is an old post but how would you sterilize before throwing in? I saw the vodka post. Any other way? A light bleach wash? I've used zest in the boil with great success but I'm trying this in a cider with no boiling.

 

[jheld00]

I usually soak the zest in vodka if it's a very small amount I'll add both zest and vodka. If it's a large amount I'll strain out most of the vodka. If you are using both zest and fruit just pasteurize it on the stove with a little water.

 

[Calichusetts]

I just wash the fruit with hot water and dry it with a paper towel. Zest and add straight to the beer. No infections but I'm sure its not the best for prevention

 

[DrBuzz]

I think you are both right. Would boiling destroy some of the volatiles? I've read other posts and a pretty common way seems to be the vodka method. I do plan on using both the fruit juice and the zest. Thanks for the replies!

 

[WoolyBooger]

I just put the citrus zest (peeled with a knife, not micro planed) in a ziplock bag with just enough vodka to cover them. I dumped the bag into the secondary, vodka and all. It was only maybe an ounce or so in a 5 gallon batch. I couldn't taste the vodka at all.