Chocolate Extract in Fermentation Rather than Secondary?

[Iowa Brewer]

Hi all,

Making a chocolate stout (Rogue clone) for which I normally add the chocolate extract to the keg before transferring from my conical. I put the keg on its side, roll it occasionally, and then into the keezer. First pint has an off-putting alcohol flavor, but after that it’s creamy deliciousness!

This batch is for a charity auction, so I need to bottle a couple cases, and my intent was to keg, pour a glass to remove the alcohol flavor, and bottle with my beergun.

But it occurred to me, why not add the extract to the fermenter along with the wort and really let it blend in during fermentation?

Would this be a bad idea?

Thanks!

 

[VikeMan]

You might want to consider using more extract if adding it to the fermenter, because some of the volatile compounds will escape.

 

[Iowa Brewer]

You might want to consider using more extract if adding it to the fermenter, because some of the volatile compounds will escape.

Thanks, VikeMan. Was planning on 3oz for 10gal. How much would you raise it?

 

[VikeMan]

Thanks, VikeMan. Was planning on 3oz for 10gal. How much would you raise it?

Hard to say without ever having used your extract and your recipe. Maybe 10% or so?

 

[Iowa Brewer]

Hard to say without ever having used your extract and your recipe. Maybe 10% or so?

Cheers, mate!

 

[Abhishek Dewan]

Won’t the fats in it cause poor head retention?

 

[Iowa Brewer]

Won’t the fats in it cause poor head retention?

Ooof! Good question & point

 

[day_trippr]

There are no evident oils or fats in Nielsen-Masset chocolate extract. I use it all the time and it doesn't leave a slick or sheen.
As for the OP: wait until bottling and mix the extract in your bucket. Adding it any earlier just increases the loss of character.
Also, I don't know where you're getting that first glass alcohol impact from three ounces of extract in ten gallons of beer...

Cheers!

 

[Rish]

I just brewed that beer this week. I used Dutch process cocoa powder added at flame out. This is my 4th time brewing this with no head retention issues. As for extract, I agree with day_trippr, put it in the bottling bucket. That way you can taste and adjust for flavor if necessary. That's the way I use extracts for beer and cider. Cheers!

 

[BongoYodeler]

Also, I don't know where you're getting that first glass alcohol impact from three ounces of extract in ten gallons of beer...

Cheers!

I’ve used various Apex/SilverCloud flavorings when kegging (racked beer on top), and have never had any oil slick issues, nor have I ever had an alcohol-ish first pour. Not sure what would cause these issues if the keg and lines are thoroughly cleaned and sanitized. Perhaps try a different brand?

 

[bwible]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/brewing-with-chocolate-methods-and-process.679059/

 

[bwible]

I’ve used various Apex/SilverCloud flavorings when kegging (racked beer on top), and have never had any oil slick issues, nor have I ever had an alcohol-ish first pour. Not sure what would cause these issues if the keg and lines are thoroughly cleaned and sanitized. Perhaps try a different brand?

I’m a big fan of them. If you’re using Apex, read the product descriptions and do the math based on what they tell you. For example if it says use .5% then 10 gallons x 128 oz = 1280 x .5% = 6.4 oz flavoring.

 

[Iowa Brewer]

There are no evident oils or fats in Nielsen-Masset chocolate extract. I use it all the time and it doesn't leave a slick or sheen.
As for the OP: wait until bottling and mix the extract in your bucket. Adding it any earlier just increases the loss of character.
Also, I don't know where you're getting that first glass alcohol impact from three ounces of extract in ten gallons of beer...

Cheers!

Princess and the pea, I guess
Wondering if it sinks to bottom(?)

 

[Iowa Brewer]

I just brewed that beer this week. I used Dutch process cocoa powder added at flame out. This is my 4th time brewing this with no head retention issues. As for extract, I agree with day_trippr, put it in the bottling bucket. That way you can taste and adjust for flavor if necessary. That's the way I use extracts for beer and cider. Cheers!

Cheers! I’ll try that powder method next time

 

[Iowa Brewer]

I’ve used various Apex/SilverCloud flavorings when kegging (racked beer on top), and have never had any oil slick issues, nor have I ever had an alcohol-ish first pour. Not sure what would cause these issues if the keg and lines are thoroughly cleaned and sanitized. Perhaps try a different brand?

I’m using Olive Nation. Good stuff and after that initial pour, it’s delicious. Strange tho

 

[day_trippr]

I'm betting there's the normal bunch of stuff collected at the bottom of the keg for that first pour that isn't extract

Cheers!

 

[Iowa Brewer]

I'm betting there's the normal bunch of stuff collected at the bottom of the keg for that first pour that isn't extract

Cheers!

Maybe so!

 

[deuc224]

You could just make your own man, ive done it for some years already and its the best way to always keep extract in large amount on hand. Vodka and cacao nibs in a mason jar and let sit for a minimum of 3 months, 6 months has better flavor and so on and so on but 6 months is perfect for beer, also use vanilla to help with the chocolate flavor.

 

[Iowa Brewer]

You could just make your own man, ive done it for some years already and its the best way to always keep extract in large amount on hand. Vodka and cacao nibs in a mason jar and let sit for a minimum of 3 months, 6 months has better flavor and so on and so on but 6 months is perfect for beer, also use vanilla to help with the chocolate flavor.

Sounds solid, deuc224. Gonna give it a try. Cheers!

 

[MightyMosin]

You could just make your own man, ive done it for some years already and its the best way to always keep extract in large amount on hand. Vodka and cacao nibs in a mason jar and let sit for a minimum of 3 months, 6 months has better flavor and so on and so on but 6 months is perfect for beer, also use vanilla to help with the chocolate flavor.

Is there a particular ratio of vodka to the cacoa nibs that should be maintained? I'm assuming that more nibs provides more extracted flavor but a rough starting point would be good as I'd hate to wait 6 months and then find I used too little.

Does this seem like a good start?
https://www.maltosefalcons.com/blogs/brewing-techniques-tips/cacao-nib-extract-drew-way

 

[day_trippr]

Enough to keep the nibs covered.
And don't forget the vanilla bean(s)...

Cheers!