Can you utilize two out of phase 120v 20a GFCI outlets to power a 240v element?

[jmrybak]

Hey all,

First: I have no electrical background. Most of what little I know I have picked up while digging through the forum here. Please excuse any beginner mistakes or misconceptions.

To keep things as short as possible: I live in an apartment with no easy access to 240v power. I do however have a pair of 120v GFCI outlets wired to separate 20a breakers that I believe to be out of phase based on breaker spacing. No other appliances are plugged into outlets on these breakers. I would like to build a eBIAB set up that would allow me to do full boil on 7g of wort for my 5 gallon batch size. Can I build a PID controller that would plug into both 120v outlets to power a single 240v element under the control of the PID?

Alternatively I am considering using the stove and one 120v element under the control of a PID to hold mash temps and assist with boiling using the stove top. To which I could later add a second 120v element if I wanted to completely stop using the stove elements.

Planning:
Spike 10g kettle with 1.5" TC ports (to be ordered when plan finalized)
Elements TBD- Integrated TC elements or TC to 1" NPT element adapters
March pump for mash recirculation and whirlpooling
Voil brew bag
Controller- TBD (leaning towards pre-built but would consider building my own if I think I can gain enough to merit the effort/ danger)

Any thoughts, comments or questions much appreciated!
Jeff

 

[jleiii]

With 120v GFCIs, no. Each one senses the current difference between hot and neutral and any difference will trip it. If you use the 2 hot legs for 240, no current will flow in the neutral and they will trip.

Dual 120 volt elements could give you the same power, but you'll need to control each separately. A single SSR/PID can't do both, but you MIGHT be able to drive 2 SSRs from the same PID. The ratings of both would have to be reviewed.

 

[jmrybak]

Thanks for the reply! Good to know. If I wind up doing with 2 120v elements, I'd probably only control 1 with a PID anyway, and use that element when stabilizing or stepping mash temps. The second element would be used as on/ off only when boiling or heating strike water.

Any other system suggestions are still appreciated! I've also looked at things like the BoilCoil and RIMS Rocket or a RIMS tube but not sure they offer much advantage to my planned set up. And I would think easily removable elements on TC ports would make for the simplest cleanup.

 

[NivBrew]

With 120v GFCIs, no. Each one senses the current difference between hot and neutral and any difference will trip it. If you use the 2 hot legs for 240, no current will flow in the neutral and they will trip.

Dual 120 volt elements could give you the same power, but you'll need to control each separately. A single SSR/PID can't do both, but you MIGHT be able to drive 2 SSRs from the same PID. The ratings of both would have to be reviewed.

The Auber EZBOIL says it can drive 6 SSRs....(60-80ma I think I read)

 

[jmrybak]

Does that mean I could have it drive 2 separate 120v elements powered by 2 separate outlets? Sorry, I might need more elaboration than others in this corner of the forum.

Again, greatly appreciated!

 

[BBBF]

Yes, you can have (1) PID + (2) SSRs to control (2) 120v elements.

On my 120v panel, I have a second PID and third SSR to control a RIMs. There is a 3 way switch to divert the power from one of the boil kettle elements above to the RIMs. So during my mash, I still have one working element in the boil kettle, which I use to heat up my sparge water.

 

[jmrybak]

That looks like quite the set up. Thanks for the info! I'm still not sure I'll wind up building a controller. Just not familiar enough with the essential electronics. But I am looking at the Brau Supply 120v controller.

Any suggestions or recommendations regarding the specific elements to use? Better to underpower a larger 240v element to get lower watt density over a 120v element for BIAB? Anyone with the integrated TC element or element to TC adapter car to recommend one set up or the other?

Thanks again all!

 

[stlblues5010]

Try looking at the Brew-Boss 120V system. It can control 2 heaters.

http://www.brew-boss.com/product-p/bb120120-value10-biab.htm

You could get just the controller.

 

[jmrybak]

Thanks for the heads up. Very interesting....

So this brew boss controller plugs into 2 different 120v outlets... So if I understand correctly this works because it is controlling each 120v circuit separately. Not trying to create a 240v output.

I wish they offered that controller separately. I'd be interested in that part, just not a fan of the rest of the system.

 

[RazorUK]

I'd email Darin and ask him if you can buy just the 120v controller. He's very responsive

 

[jmrybak]

I'll do that. Does the brew boss system require a computer/ tablet? That's the impression I get.

Not sure I dig that if so. Not against it, just seems like more opportunities for problems.

Anyone had experience with the Brau Supply 120v controller?

Any recommendations regarding TC attachment options for elements?