Bru'n Water & BIAB

[OzzyBrew]

I have poor well water (think rotten eggs) so I have been using water from a neighbor to brew for the last 2 years. I have decided to try a few batches solely using RO water with additions. With so many different water calculators out there I decided to start with Bru'n water, as it seems a ton of people use it.

This is the recipe I intend to use, which is something I found on the web:
2-Row - 11.78 lbs
C-40 - .64 lbs
Carapils - .38 lbs
In all, there will be 11.11 ounces of hops between boil, hopstand and dry-hop.

The process I have been using for BIAB is to add extra 2-row instead of mini-sparging or squeezing. So I'll truly be using roughly 12.75 lbs of 2-row.

I entered everything into Bru'n water, skipping tabs 1 & 2. On tab 3 I selected RO water for my dilution water, and increased the percentage to 100. I selected the Pale Ale profile under the desired water profile. I then started adding various amounts of minerals to get the finished water profile to closely match the desired profile. I set the mash water amount to 9 gallons, as I believe there will be a ton of hop/trub sludge to leave behind. I have always tried to leave that stuff behind, but maybe I shouldn't be?

Anyway, the mineral additions I used are: (total amount treating all 9 gallons)
Gypsum - 16.2 g
Epsom - 6.3 g
Baking Soda - 2.3 g
Calcium Chl - 3.6 g

Using these amounts gets the numbers in the ballpark with the pale ale profile, with the exception of sulfate which is at 338 vs the 300 in the original profile.

Okay, so on Tab 4 I entered my grains. The online tutorial page I read said select 'adjusted water' to get my mash acidity results however when I do that, all the acidity boxes fill in with #N/A. When I select 'existing water' the boxes actually fill in with useful numbers. So this leads me to my first question (finally). When using 100% RO dilution water, should I actually be selecting 'existing water', or have I just messed something up?

If 'existing water' is what I'm supposed to use, then this leads to the next part of my question. Using 9 gallons of mash water, added additions and grain I am left with a ph of 5.7. To bring this back to par I played with the acidulated malt amounts. I don't currently have any lactic acid, and since I'm brewing Saturday I want to stick with acid malt. To bring the ph to 5.4 I apparently need to add .5 lb acid malt, or 8 ounces. Will using this much acid malt be okay with this grain bill?

Sorry for the long post, I'm just starting to tinker with water chemistry and I'm a bit lost. My neighbors water works decent for most beers, but it certainly doesn't lend itself to a good IPA....well it's either that or I just can't brew an IPA! I don't have a report for that water, so I'm hesitant to add any additions to it (might try some gypsum for the heck of it). In reading other posts, I'm also concerned that I'm assuming the numbers the RO water I get are near 0. At this point I do not have a ph meter, but once I find one that is well regarded in the brewing community I will likely buy it.

I also was able to play with the mash water amounts to change the ph, which would get me away from so much acid malt. Any thoughts on my process? Did I use Bru'n water incorrectly? I'm open to any advice or critiques as I'd like to get a better handle on water chemistry.

Thanks in advance.

 

[monkeyman1000]

I use Bru'n water and Brewers Friend. I looked at my last sheet and on tab 4 i have it set to adjusted water. on page 2 did you also set dilution water to RO and dilution percentage to 100% along with page 3?

 

[OzzyBrew]

I don't think I have that. I can see the upgraded pages which has that RO water selection on Tab 2, but right now I just have the free version while I try and see if I'm smart enough for this program.

 

[monkeyman1000]

My only other suggestion would be to try Brewers Friend. It is also free. Martin is on here a lot and really nice about answering question about Bru'n water so hang in there.

 

[mabrungard]

You are doing one thing that is counter-productive, adding both an alkali (baking soda) and an acid (acid malt). It is far better to delete the acid malt and then reduce the baking soda as necessary to bring the pH to the target. If the pH is still higher than your target and all the baking soda addition is deleted, then start adding acid malt or acid.

Don't try to be too literal with the ion concentrations in the profiles. This is more of a horseshoes and hand grenades situation where you just want to be close...not perfect. The only item that you do want to be nearly perfect is the pH. The rest is just flavoring.

Speaking of flavoring, I recommend starting under 300 ppm sulfate and seeing if you prefer it before exceeding that level. While I enjoy 300 ppm, not all do. You can always add a bit more gypsum in the glass to see if you really do enjoy higher sulfate...after the fact.

 

[OzzyBrew]

Thanks for that info. When I get home tonight I will eliminate the baking soda, and lower the amount of CaCl to get under 300. Then I should be able to reduce the amount of acidulated malt and give it a shot. I'm still unsure about the 'existing water' selection. Any thoughts on that?

 

[mabrungard]

Since you are using all RO water, your approach of dialing up the dilution selection to 100 % is OK. You don't need to worry about the existing water then.

I'm assuming you mis-typed when you said CaCl above. You need to be reducing the CaSO4 to reduce sulfate.

If you are boosting the water hardness as shown for the Pale Ale profile in a very low alkalinity water like RO, acid malt is definitely not needed at all. Only a small amount of baking soda or lime should be needed to keep the mash pH from dropping too low.

 

[OzzyBrew]

yeah sorry, I did mean gypsum reduction. I will play around with the numbers again tonight.

I think I'm using the RO tab incorrectly. Can I assume roughly '0' across the board on the water input from tab 1? I realize there will be trace elements, but should be very minimal. I figure that way I can adjust the existing water while using 0% dilution.

Otherwise, like I said earlier, when I select 'adjusted water' the chart errors out with #n/a. It's obviously user error.

 

[monkeyman1000]

Anyway you can post screen shots of each of the tabs of your Bru'n water? I'm sure it is something simple.

 

[OzzyBrew]

I can't seem to get a screenshot to work. Anyways, I actually closed out the program and reopened it. I must have done something to cause the error as it is working properly when I use 'adjusted water'. After reading more posts on Epsom I decided to scrap that and the baking soda. Taking Martins advice on the ion concentrations and sulfate reduction I came up with this: 12 grams of gypsum and 4 grams of Calcium Chloride. This puts me at:

Calcium: 114.4
Magnesium: 0....or whatever I get from the grains
Sodium: 8
Sulfate: 197.1
Chloride: 60.1

Estimated room temp mash ph of 5.4 so no acidulated malt required.

So for an IPA, does this look like a good/decent starting point?

Thanks again Martin and MM1000 for the help/suggestions.