Brown Plastic Beer Bottles?

[mongoose33]

In another thread we're welcoming a new brewer from the UK. He's using a kit, and in that kit are brown plastic beer bottles:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00ELHENN8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_SWsDDbCJGWMJM?tag=forumyield-20

I thought, "that's terrific!" How many of us would like to take our homebrew to a place that doesn't allow glass, and do so in a BROWN plastic bottle? Yeah, we could buy a $700 canner and all that stuff, but if we had plastic bottles, well....

So--I searched Amazon here in the US, and no dice. I did find some 16-oz bottles here, but they're a buck apiece and you have to buy the caps as well.

Why aren't these more common? Are they difficult to clean? They seem a natural solution to bottling one's beer.

 

[Vale71]

What about them being permeable to the dreaded O2?
They're not as bad as silicone rubber but they're still quite awful.

 

[mongoose33]

What about them being permeable to the dreaded O2?
They're not as bad as silicone rubber but they're still quite awful.

If you're filling them today to take on a trip tomorrow, I doubt that would matter much. I suppose you could store them in a CO2-filled cooler.....

Besides....doesn't the ideal gas law work in Europe? I'd think if this was a big problem, plastic bottles would be a non-starter with most home brewers....

 

[day_trippr]

It's as easy as looking in the right place: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=PET+plastic+beer+bottles

So those are PET bottles, which should bring the O2 ingress thing down by a few orders of magnitude from soda and water bottle plastics...

Cheers!

 

[Vale71]

If you're filling them today to take on a trip tomorrow, I doubt that would matter much. I suppose you could store them in a CO2-filled cooler.....

Besides....doesn't the ideal gas law work in Europe? I'd think if this was a big problem, plastic bottles would be a non-starter with most home brewers....

I doubt that many homebrewers have the capability to do counterpressure filling so filling just the day before is really not an option for most of them.

And yes, plastic bottles are a non-starter. As a matter of fact it's the first time I've heard of a kit that includes them. It must be really the cheapest entry level kit your friend could find. BTW reusing them is really hardly an option as they get scratched easily and it's a nightmare to get them properly cleaned and sanitized. But then most people who buy these cheap kits don't go beyond batch number one so it's probably ok.

 

[Vale71]

It's as easy as looking in the right place: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=PET+plastic+beer+bottles

So those are PET bottles, which should bring the O2 ingress thing down by a few orders of magnitude from soda and water bottle plastics...

Cheers!

Just make sure it's the right type of PET. I wouldn't trust regular PET bottles (without a scavenger addedd) for more than a week at most.

https://www.presens.de/knowledge/ba...rmeation-measurement-in-pet-bottles-1138.html

 

[AkTom]

Ha!!!
RDWHAHB etc.
I almost alway botlle 2 or 3 in plastic soda bottles. Leave the label on, drink in public, at the beach or wherever you want. Nobody knows or cares what you are drinking. I don’t have any o2 issues.
YMMV,
Cheers

 

[Vale71]

I don’t have any o2 issues.

Yeah, me neither, but it's my beer that tends to be negatively affected.

 

[mongoose33]

Just make sure it's the right type of PET. I wouldn't trust regular PET bottles (without a scavenger addedd) for more than a week at most.

https://www.presens.de/knowledge/ba...rmeation-measurement-in-pet-bottles-1138.html

You're taking this to a place I wasn't intending. My concern was having bottles I could take with me to a place where glass bottles are not allowed--like on a canoe trip, to the beach, whatever.

I never advocated these bottles as a long-term bottling solution, but even then, I'm doubtful the oxygen issue would be all that big a deal with PET bottles. YMMV, and we all get to make our own choices.

 

[Imhoppy]

I started out with Mr. Beer kits that used 1-liter brown PET bottles with screw-on caps. Well, the good results led me next to extract kits with specialty grains. After a PET exploded (turned out due to a bottle defect after further analysis) and made a mess, I then bottled in 22oz. brown Bomber bottles. After growing tired of the effort to clean bottles, fill, cap, and carbonate, I moved on to kegging and forced CO2 carbonating. Nothing better that "bottling" one big 5-gallon keg and one empty to clean. So now maybe we might be worried about O2 absorption while drinking beer out of a pint glass. Thinking about a pure nitrogen-atmosphere drinking room to solve that concern. After a few more beers, I might have it all figured out. Don't hold your breath, though. Lol.

 

[Immocles]

Ha!!!
RDWHAHB etc.
I almost alway botlle 2 or 3 in plastic soda bottles. Leave the label on, drink in public, at the beach or wherever you want. Nobody knows or cares what you are drinking. I don’t have any o2 issues.
YMMV,
Cheers

Do they carb up and stay carbed with screw on caps? I keep meaning to try, but always forget. I have a few friends that constantly toss my bottles into recycling, and am thinking of demoting them to plastic pop bottles.

 

[mongoose33]

Do they carb up and stay carbed with screw on caps? I keep meaning to try, but always forget. I have a few friends that constantly toss my bottles into recycling, and am thinking of demoting them to plastic pop bottles.

Yes. Ever had a flat Diet Coke or similar?

I have read how some people who use glass bottles will do one plastic bottle, and seal it up. They can monitor conditioning by how hard the bottle gets from the CO2 buildup inside.

And as an aside....my son and I developed a method where people could do little mini-fermenters of 2-liter bottles and when done fermenting, transfer to cleaned and sanitized diet coke plastic bottles, with a carb drop. It's about as low tech as you can get, and it works, and works well.

 

[mongoose33]

After a few more beers, I might have it all figured out.

I just stole that for my signature.

 

[Immocles]

Yes. Ever had a flat Diet Coke or similar?

I have read how some people who use glass bottles will do one plastic bottle, and seal it up. They can monitor conditioning by how hard the bottle gets from the CO2 buildup inside.

And as an aside....my son and I developed a method where people could do little mini-fermenters of 2-liter bottles and when done fermenting, transfer to cleaned and sanitized diet coke plastic bottles, with a carb drop. It's about as low tech as you can get, and it works, and works well.

I guess I have read where folks filled a plastic bottle as a way of monitoring carbonation. Using soda as an example, taking a drink or two and putting it back in the fridge flattens it out a bit. I figured reusing a screwtop coke bottle would have a similar effect. Might have to hang onto a few root beer bottles, hmm.

 

[day_trippr]

The plastic pop bottle as a "carbonation canary" is a brilliant way to cut down on the number of glass bottles opened before the batch is actually ready

Cheers!

 

[mongoose33]

I guess I have read where folks filled a plastic bottle as a way of monitoring carbonation. Using soda as an example, taking a drink or two and putting it back in the fridge flattens it out a bit. I figured reusing a screwtop coke bottle would have a similar effect. Might have to hang onto a few root beer bottles, hmm.

When you open a coke bottle, take a drink, reseal it, you're releasing pressure from the bottle, and then, when resealing it, the headspace is lower pressure than the CO2 in the drink.

So it has to equalize. Then you take a drink again, and again it happens.

I don't know how many volumes of CO2 are in a coke, but when you have, say, 1/4 of a bottle left, there's an awful lot of headspace for that remaining CO2 to fill up.

 

[day_trippr]

Right, that's not really the optimal methodology wrt assessing carbonation status, which is to give the test plastic bottle a squeeze, and until it's pretty much rock hard the batch isn't ready to even pop a cap to try...

Cheers!

 

[Immocles]

Good stuff guys, thanks. I tend to gloss over things that seem to be pretty common sense now that I see it.

 

[AkTom]

Do they carb up and stay carbed with screw on caps? I keep meaning to try, but always forget. I have a few friends that constantly toss my bottles into recycling, and am thinking of demoting them to plastic pop bottles.

They do carb and stay carbed. Sometimes the caps are hard to get off. 16 oz bottles to friends... They better be good friends. Cut them off or cut their heads off if they don’t return bottles. Jest, I jest. No seriously, cut them off. Pardon them if they bring new bottles to you, or filled with your favorite commercial beer.

 

[501irishred]

As mentioned, Mr Beer kits come with (or at least used to come with) PET bottles. It’s what I started with and all I used for the first 3 or 4 batches. They work great! No carbonation or oxidation issues, even when stored for months. They are absolutely reusable as well, caps included! I used to have people that I knew drank cokes in bottles save there caps to replace lost or damaged
I keg now but still use them to go to the lake. They hold there carbonation every bit as well as glass a least from a practical standpoint.

 

[Vale71]

You're taking this to a place I wasn't intending.

Well, then why did you ask "Why isn't everybody using these wonderful plastic bottles?"
Sorry if it bothers you that I tried to answer your question but whatever...

 

[Zambezi Special]

I use sprite bottles (pet - 500 ml) for bottling, just because I can't get proper empty bottles here and I had to start somewhere.
I use them for cider and beer. No problem with carbonation as long as you tighten the lid properly. Even after 6 months they are still properly carbonated.
I like to move to grolsch bottles (swing top) but they are difficult to get.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Plastic absorbs flavors.
When cleaning, you're going to want to soak in some kind of percarbonate to avoid flavor transfer.

 

[Pkrd]

The plastic pop bottle as a "carbonation canary" is a brilliant way to cut down on the number of glass bottles opened before the batch is actually ready

But there goes the "I'm only drinking to see if it's carbed" excuse.

My Coopers starter kit came with plastic bottles. Screw tops are a lot easier than capping. I had my one and only bottle bomb with them though, a pinhole leak in the bottom made a huge mess.

 

[Toxxyc]

I never thought about bottling straight in plastic soft drink bottles for beers I don't really want to age. I just want to bottle, carb for a week or two and drink. Brilliant idea!

 

[mongoose33]

Well, then why did you ask "Why isn't everybody using these wonderful plastic bottles?"
Sorry if it bothers you that I tried to answer your question but whatever...

Because it's a legitimate question. You seem to have this idea that oxidation, in any amount, will destroy beer. Note, for example, your comments about silicone gaskets on a Tri-Clamp system. Not only is that not true, it doesn't recognize that not everyone is able to perceive oxidation effects the same way.

If you use brown PET bottles for your beer and you're happy with the result, then it is not a problem. It may be for you, but not for everybody.

 

[Miraculix]

I almost exclusively bottle in pet sparkling water bottles. I use the water for brewing and the bottles are already sanitised.

Longer than two or three months and I get to start tasting oxidised flavours. Mainly lack of hop aroma and increased sweetness from the malt. But my beer very rarely lasts that long. For two months it's an ideal thing if you want to keep things as easy as possible.

I only have one or two of the odd bottles per batch which wouldn't carb because I screwed the cap on in a weird angle, otherwise no problems.

 

[Vale71]

Because it's a legitimate question. You seem to have this idea that oxidation, in any amount, will destroy beer.

I must have gone down some rabbit hole or something...

Aren't you the one that screams bloody murder when people use bottled CO2 because it allegedly contains 0.1% air? (for the record, it doesn't as long as you get food grade CO2). And who claims that only by preventing HSA through LODO practices your beer will actually taste like beer? If that is the case then you exhibit an astoundingly cavalier attitude towards cold side oxidation, which is several orders of magnitude a more serious issue than HSA, capable of ruining your beer in a matter of weeks if not days.

If you look at the page I linked you'll see that plain PET bottles can increase O2 levels in your beer to well over 1000 ppb in less than two months. In other words 1 ppm O2. And that's O2 dissolved in the beer and not in the headspace waiting to diffuse in the beer.

 

[lump42]

My dad and I started with the brown Mr. Beer bottles. Then we moved to using plastic water bottles, but that was back when they were re-purposing heavy coke bottles for water. I've have used coke, pepsi, or whatever. Just soaked in oxyclean like my glass bottles and a thorough rinse. I've never had issues of scratches because I don't scrub them. They get the cap put back on to keep anything from drying inside, then rinsed thoroughly.

Clear bottles work if you keep them in a cardboard box or inside the cooler.

They hold carbonation for months at least. Also, I've never had an issue with oxidation (even without scavenger caps). I've bottles a few hop trials in them and checked how they aged and no oxidation characters developed.

I also keep some 1-liter and 2-liters on-hand. They are great for growlers when you're not sure you will get the container back.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Would it help if for plastic beer bottles you give them a light squeeze to eliminate headspace (and thereby air, along with its pesky oxygen) before screwing on a cap? This seems at first glance to start you out in a much better oxygen ingress situation than for simply filling unpurged glass bottles.

 

[lump42]

Would it help if for plastic beer bottles you give them a light squeeze to eliminate headspace (and thereby air, along with its pesky oxygen) before screwing on a cap? This seems at first glance to start you out in a much better oxygen ingress situation than for simply filling unpurged glass bottles.

That's what I do when I bottle condition in plastic bottles. If I'm pulling off a keg, I usually will hit the empty bottle with co2 first.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Is the 'Mr. Beer' 740 mL (25 Oz.) amber plastic bottle the exact same bottle as for Coopers?

 

[deeve007]

The PET brown bottles are the most common used in Argentina, due to price I'm sure, though I have to say it is much easier simply screwing a lid on rather than needing a tool to do so. And from what I gather within the home brewing community here it doesn't negatively impact on carbonation or taste, though I probably wouldn't want to keep for longer than 6 months (though I'm no expert, maybe they'd be fine then too?).

 

[Toxxyc]

The brown plastic bottles are popular in South Africa because they don't break when you ship them.

 

[dwhite60]

I got a case of the Cooper's 740ml bottles free. Like them so much I bought another case. They're easy to use. Reusable caps. I haven't had any problems with them and will certainly buy more.

Only issue, it doesn't take much to knock them over when empty.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[501irishred]

Only issue, it doesn't take much to knock them over when empty.

Yep. Like bowling for beer!

The other small hurdle I’ve noticed is the fact they float so easy when empty. My cleaning process involves soaking bottles with oxiclean and hot water in an ice chest. With plastic bottles, I have to be way more precise filling the bottles because just a little spillage before they are all full (I eventually fill the chest too) and it looks like a frustrating game of bumper boat bottles!

 

[Zambezi Special]

I clean the bottles under flowing hot water and keep them upside down in a crate.
Before bottling, I fill them with some starsan and shake them about. Put them upside down in a crate (lid on), and when bottling commences, open lid, empty out bottle and fill. Put lid back on et voila!
Seems to work for me

 

[davidabcd]

Would it help if for plastic beer bottles you give them a light squeeze to eliminate headspace (and thereby air, along with its pesky oxygen) before screwing on a cap? This seems at first glance to start you out in a much better oxygen ingress situation than for simply filling unpurged glass bottles.

I'm on the sister site in the UK also and that's exactly what many of them do. Even when filling bottles from the bottling bucket, it allows for more control of the headspace.

 

[Kugel]

This is an old thread, I know, but I have a couple of questions...

I plan to keg and force carbonate a 4 gallon batch in a 5 gallon Corny. Then, when I get ready to go to the beach, or on a picnic, I plan to use 2L soda bottles (cleaned and sanitized) as growlers. I'd like to find some older, dark green Sprite bottles, but it probably doesn't matter, since we'll consume the lot all in one day, or two days. Also, we'll be able to keep them ice cold in an ice chest.

1) Any suggestions on filling the bottles with the already carbonated brew to reduce foam and maximize filling while reducing loss of homebrew?

2) Any other suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

Good Brewing and God Bless!

Kugel

 

[Zambezi Special]

Fill very slowly with low pressure is all I can come up with
Hope someone else pitches in as that seems like a nice plan.
Are you just going to pour from your pet bottle? Or add a tap?