Brett then Sacc in an IPA?

[butterpants]

Quick question for those making Brett IPAs....

I'm currently growing up a few Crooked Stave Brett isolates into somewhat pitchable quantities for an IPA. One of the strains got down to 1.024 and the other 1.012 (from a starter wort of 1.045, still, no O2 fermentation) in 30 days. With the blend and cell counts this is probably not enough attention for me....and with it being an IPA I want it to be ready for serving in less than 30 days.... SO, I was thinking of letting it go on the inital Brett pitch for 3 weeks then tossing in some US05 to dry it out.

In my trial fermentations, 3 weeks was plenty to generate pleasurable Brett character with these strains, so I think I'm good there.

This sound like a viable technical approach to producing moderate Brett character in a beer while still maintaining the freshness needed in an IPA?

 

[microbusbrewery]

That's kind of the opposite of what most people do when they're after "brett character". Brett tends to ferment pretty clean in a 100% brett primary. It needs the byproducts from sach in primary in order to produce the compounds associated with "brett character"; hay, goat sweat, horse blanket, barnyard. I suspect the attenuation differences probably had more to do with the viability of the dregs you harvested. Have you considered buying a vial of Brett Barrel III from Inland Island? This is reportedly the same strain that Crooked Stave uses. I've used it and it's voracious. I don't think you'd have any issue getting full attenuation within a couple weeks.

http://inlandislandyeast.com/yeast-library/inis-913-Brett-Barrel-Yeast-III/

 

[butterpants]

I know Inland Island well.

You're right I'm thinking in reverse but the "traditional" way is for a longer sour/mixed fermentation. Converting Sacc fermentation phenols, fusels and esters slowly over time is not what I'm after. I'd like tropical, pineapple, mango and a slight hint of funk in 3 weeks.

My inital rudimentary experiment seems to show you can indeed get some brett character with it first in the primary (at least with my harvested strains).... but I'm trying to think about possible issues I'm failing to take into account because I'm doing it "ass backwards". I do appreciate the feedback tho micro.

I didn't use dregs in my trial fermentations. CS Beer was plated onto WLD then Brett isolates subcultured to WLN for further giant colony morphology observations. The isolates then were slanted and aspectically propigated as individuals into multiple test fermenters. The pitch rate was fairly decent although the volumes were low....cells were as viable as you can get.

 

[m00ps]

What you are doing sounds like an all-brett beer since for 3 weeks it will be fermented entirely with brett? I doubt that US-05 will be able to attenuate it further than brett. My last 100% brett ipa got down to 1.000

are you sure those crooked stave beers are only brett? cause they use a alot of mixed cultures

Id also note that if you are only pitching brett initially, you will not get the bracing tart, super dry flavors that are typical of mixed brett fermentations. It will be clean and fruity

FWIW, 3 weeks is my usual;y timeline for all-brett beers. But for any mixed fermentation I wouldnt try to bottle it before 2 months at least

 

[butterpants]

Yep m00ps that's what I'm after....

The only reason I posted questions about the sacc addition was my test fermentation failed to attenuate as far as I expected. I'd much rather it be 100% brett.

You're correct the CS beers are mixed.

What rate are you pitching at? 1 million cells/ml/P?

This is going to be keg only... and consumed quickly so the bottling issues aren't there for me.

 

[m00ps]

Yep m00ps that's what I'm after....

The only reason I posted questions about the sacc addition was my test fermentation failed to attenuate as far as I expected. I'd much rather it be 100% brett.

You're correct the CS beers are mixed.

What rate are you pitching at? 1 million cells/ml/P?

This is going to be keg only... and consumed quickly so the bottling issues aren't there for me.

I dont get technical enough to do cell counts, but last all-brett beer I made a 2.5L starter. The OG was 1.062

 

[butterpants]

for 5 gallons I'm assuming ?

 

[m00ps]

yeah

 

[kevink]

I tried one of m00ps brett ipas and it was outstanding. Moops, did that one get down to 1.000?

 

[microbusbrewery]

Sounds like a cool experiment. If you end up pitching a sach strain to finish things off, please report back with the results as I'm interested in hearing about it.

 

[m00ps]

I tried one of m00ps brett ipas and it was outstanding. Moops, did that one get down to 1.000?

yeah. I intended on it being around 7% and it got a tiny bit past 8%. Used The Yeast Bay Brett Amalgamation. IME, the more Brett strains you cram in, the better in terms of flavor and attenuation