Hi guys, Just wondering if anyone has kegged and carbed up a beer using nitro and then managed to bottle using a CPBF with that nitro beer? Im thinking of buying a small nitro setup but wait to bottle a few beers to give to mates etc?
Bottling from kegs carbonated with Nitro
- Thread starter troyp42
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cyberbackpacker
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By and large, f you try and bottle beer that has been on nitro, when opened it will be perceived as flat.
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troyp42
Well-Known Member
Oh ok, how do some micro breweries do it then, even without using a widget like Guinness do?
Doesnt work . I've tried multiple times . Breweries have gone away from widgets by dropping a specific amount of Nitro into the beer then capping. It builds a certain amount of pressure . One you open and hard pour the nitro does its thing. I watched a video on it , very interesting. I think I posted a link here somewhere.
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troyp42
Well-Known Member
I found your link. Cheers for that.
Left Hand Milk Stout Nitro is like that - nitro infused sans widget - and iirc the bottle recommends pouring "hard" to get something resembling a head. And I've never been impressed with that particular stout. It's thin-ish to me, and having utterly spoiled myself with my nitro imperial chocolate stout on tap every day all year 'round, their "nitro" effect is sad by comparison.
If I have to buy a nitro stout I prefer Young's in their widget can...
Cheers!
If I have to buy a nitro stout I prefer Young's in their widget can...
Cheers!
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troyp42
Well-Known Member
Can you tell me a bit about your Nitro setup? Do you carbonate with CO2 then serve with Nitro??
Sure! Yes, I carbonate to ~1.2 volumes using straight CO2, which means warm-ish carbonation (usually 65°F @6 psi for a week or a bit longer), then chill it in my conditioning fridge until its slot in the keezer opens up. Then it goes on 70/30 beer gas at 35 psi, pouring through a war club Micro Matic stout faucet (the thing is a beast!)...
Cheers!
Cheers!
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troyp42
Well-Known Member
So I brought straight nitro as I was told if you carb with CO2 then serve with nitro that will work? It was a disposable bottle so if that doesbt quite work when its finished with I will look at getting a 70/30 beer gas mix. Will that work through the same regulator? Problem is my regulator has an M10 thread.
You'll have to check with your local suppliers on the threading, Australia uses a different system than the US wrt cylinder valves and fitments. Here mixed gas typically comes in cylinders with "CGA-580" valves, for example.
But often one can simply replace a regulator stem/coupler - as long as the regulator is compatible with the gas/gas mix.
The issue with using straight nitrogen is due to partial pressure gas laws: as the head space of your keg increases, dissolved CO2 will come out of solution to re-establish its partial pressure equilibrium. So the beer slowly flattens.
That's the whole reason why "beer gas" exists - to have a fraction that maintains the carbonation level of the beer from start to kick...
Cheers!
But often one can simply replace a regulator stem/coupler - as long as the regulator is compatible with the gas/gas mix.
The issue with using straight nitrogen is due to partial pressure gas laws: as the head space of your keg increases, dissolved CO2 will come out of solution to re-establish its partial pressure equilibrium. So the beer slowly flattens.
That's the whole reason why "beer gas" exists - to have a fraction that maintains the carbonation level of the beer from start to kick...
Cheers!
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troyp42
Well-Known Member
Could I just top it up with Co2 from time to time as the keg empties?
I suppose you could do that. Not sure what you'd set the CO2 regulator pressure to though...
Cheers!
Cheers!
Simple, they lie and the customer buys it (both the lie and the beer)...
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troyp42
Well-Known Member
Well Ive tried 2 different beers with Nitro in both of them. No widgets and they weren't lying, they did have nitro in them. So I don't know what your talking about, they lie and the customer buys it????
I think hes just kidding lol
No I'm not. Unless the breweries have found a way to make nitrogen much more soluble in water than it is in the rest of the known universe without a widget the amount of nitrogen you can actually get in the beer without using ridiculously high pressures (way much more than a bottle could ever handle) is totally negligible. What little nitrogen there might be would all collect in the headspace and once you pop the bottle it'll escape instantly and play no role at all. I'm guessing marketing slogans do indeed work if people really believe in them, just like the placebo effect can make a sugar pill feel you better to the point that your health will indeed improve.
How do you know they had nitro in them? Did you run a chemical assay on headspace gases? If so, what were there results?
Nitro Merlin milk stout . No widgets
Yes, and hence no nitro in the pour.
Check out this page where they tell you all about the differences of a nitro pour and always refer to serving from a keg. No reference whatsover to packaged nitro beer at all.
https://www.firestonebeer.com/beers/nitromerlin/nitro-wizardry.php
It's a subtle lie that you will only notice if you read carefully...
Check out this page where they tell you all about the differences of a nitro pour and always refer to serving from a keg. No reference whatsover to packaged nitro beer at all.
https://www.firestonebeer.com/beers/nitromerlin/nitro-wizardry.php
It's a subtle lie that you will only notice if you read carefully...
Can you get a cascading effect without nitro ? I either heard a podcast or I watched a video where they were using liquid nitrogen as they packaged the beer . If I find it I will add the link . I did find this .
https://www.packagingdigest.com/cans/nitrocan-delivers-widget-less-pub-style-beer1507
https://www.packagingdigest.com/cans/nitrocan-delivers-widget-less-pub-style-beer1507
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troyp42
Well-Known Member
Wrong quoted post.
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troyp42
Well-Known Member
So what are they using to give the EXACT same cascading effect that a Nitro pour does? 4 Pines Nitro stout here in Australia has it in a bottle and so does One Drop mango milkshake IPA in a can (To name a couple that Ive had recently)
I think you are wrong and it is possible to pour with Nitro without widgets
I'm not disputing the fact that they might use nitrogen as a propellant when counterpressure filling or possibly even add a droplet of liquid nitrogen if they don't have the facilities for counterpressure filling their cans, the point is that all that nitrogen will just end up in the headspace and be instantly gone as soon as you open the bottle/can. To actually get nitro in the foam you definitely need a containment/controlled release device (a.k.a. widget) as there is absolutely no other way to get around the physics of gas solubility and no amount of marketing hype is going to change that.
According to this research it's all about the shape of the glass:
https://phys.org/news/2012-05-irish-mathematicians-guinness-video.html
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troyp42
Well-Known Member
Yeah but these beers hold their creamy nitro head for almost the entire time your drinking the beer.. How is that so?
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troyp42
Well-Known Member
Ok so what are they using? And why don't they just say what they are using instead of saying they are using Nitro? looks like Nitro to me..
Lots of specialty malts and adjuncts? I'm not disputing that they somehow use nitrogen in the packaging process which allows them to use the word "nitro" which in turn suggests that is has anything to do with the beer's qualities, thus enabling them to make a marketing claim (a.k.a. "lie") that based on the reactions here is clearly working.
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troyp42
Well-Known Member
Im not quite with you, it pours like Nitro, its not the malt they use. That I know for sure...
