Bottle carbing cider commerically

[aurora_colony_cider]

Hello,

I'm applying for my license now to go semi-pro with the cider making.

I am going to go into Alternating Proprietorship with an established winery so i can start with minimum cash. It means I can rent their equipment and premises until I find my feet.

One thing I can't rent from the winery is a brite tank and the $10K to buy my own is out of reach. So I was thinking about priming each bottle in my first few batches and then saving for the brite tank.

Reasons for: I like the taste of bottle conditioned cider better and it's cheaper.

Reasons against: The reside puts people off the contents of the bottle.

My proposed process:

Primary ferment in IBC, put through plate filter to secondary in IBC, put through plate filter to primed bottles.

So. Questions for those of you who know these things.

Will there be enough yeast left alive after two filters to bottle carb?

If so, what number of filter plates would you use each time?

If so, will bottle carbing after this level of filtering leave a nasty mess in the bottle so people will be put off drinking it?

Any other considerations such as time in storage, ambient temperature, etc?

Thanks for any and all help.

R.

 

[madscientist451]

Hello,

I'm applying for my license now to go semi-pro with the cider making.

I am going to go into Alternating Proprietorship with an established winery so i can start with minimum cash. It means I can rent their equipment and premises until I find my feet.

One thing I can't rent from the winery is a brite tank and the $10K to buy my own is out of reach. So I was thinking about priming each bottle in my first few batches and then saving for the brite tank.

Reasons for: I like the taste of bottle conditioned cider better and it's cheaper.

Reasons against: The reside puts people off the contents of the bottle.

Not going to sugar coat it, sounds like a recipe for failure to me.
The main reason I'm saying this is that your product will be variable from bottle to bottle, and as a new business, you can't afford problems like that.
Can you afford $380?
If so, get a 1/2 bbl Sabco brite tank and start with that.
If you have enough for 3 or 4 , all the better.
You'll also need a way to fill bottles off the tank, like a Blichtmann beer gun or something similar.

https://www.brewmagic.com/products/select-sankey-keg/

With the Brite tank,
you'll be able to fine tune your carbonation levels and provide a consistent product. You could also transfer to standard kegs and sell a draft product.
Later, as you become more experienced, you can put out a bottle conditioned product.

 

[LeBreton]

If you want to bottle condition, filter the cider to clear and re-innoculate and prime the whole batch before packaging and skip the final filter for a more consistent carbonation from bottle to bottle and keg to keg. I've not found consumers do be put off by cloudy cider so if that's the style you want to make then go for it!

You could also take the filtered cider to another winery/brewery/cidery equipped with a bright tank & CPF and have it bottled there.

 

[aurora_colony_cider]

Thanks, both.

The Sabco looks like a neat way to go for small batches like I'll be doing. The one thing I could see being an issue is regulating the temp in that thing to 30-32 degrees for carbing.

The winery I am going to go into Alternating Proprietorship will let me use their glycol cooling system if I can get a brite and they can bottle carbonated, so i guess for consistency and standards the brite is the way to go. Maybe I could find someone willing to rent me a tank? Does such an arrangement even exist right now?

Thanks for the responses.

R.

 

[LeBreton]

The Sabco 1/2 bbl BT is a great option for making one-off kegs, but you're going to have to flip that little tank around 16 times to package a whole IBC. It's simply not going to be a labor effective way to get through any significant volume of liquid. You need a bright that matches the size of you fermentors.

 

[madscientist451]

The OP stated he doesn't have the resources for a bright tank. For $1600, you could get 4 of the 1/2 bbl Sabcos and yes, it would not be the most efficient use of time, but it would get it done. The Sabcos could be sold when you don't need them anymore, so you'd basically be "renting" them.

For temperature control, you could assemble a small walk in cooler, like 6' x 8', cooled with a window A/C controlled by a coolbot:

https://www.storeitcold.com/

Depending on your ability to scrounge used materials the walk in could be built for a few hundred up to maybe a $1,000. You could also sell that when you are done with it.
The Coolbot walk in concept has been used by many Nano brewers to get their business off the ground.

One of the cider business models is to make a base cider and then add different flavors/amounts of backsweetening.
If you had several of the Sabcos you could offer a dry, off dry backsweeten with apple and backsweeten with blackberry or some other flavor.
If your state allows selling by the glass in the tasting room, this could be way more profitable than bottling. If the customers will accept growler fills, that is another way to go, you can be at the same price point as a bottled product without all the labor.
Preparing smaller batches and selling growler fills could also enable you to offer a cider without added chemicals, which may or may not be a selling point in your area.

 

[ericbw]

From a consumer standpoint, I think cloudy cider with sediment is fine if that's the style. People drink cloudy beers, and it's something they look for.

But I do think you need to batch prime it, not bottle prime. Consistency from batch to batch is nice, but not critical. There is a market for people who know that there is variation because it's a hand=crafted agricultural product. But consistency within each batch is important. Each bottle should be carbed the same and taste the same.

Are you going to be selling the cider at the winery? Are you allowed/able to serve it draft as well? Sounds like a good way to get things off the ground without a lot of cash to put out.

 

[aurora_colony_cider]

Eric,

I can do kegs/draft if I buy the kegging adapter for their Prospero bottling line. I love the idea of kegs as growler stations are a huge market here for cider and 22oz bottles are not as popular. Yes, the winery are going to sell my cider at both their tasting rooms and at summer events they cover with their mobile wine tasting room.

Thanks.

 

[bucketnative]

One thing to consider with the two different carbonation methods is labeling of your product. According to 27 CFR 4.21... "Fruit wines which are derived wholly (except for sugar, water, or added alcohol) from apples or pears may be designated “cider” and “perry,” respectively, and shall be so designated if lacking in vinous taste, aroma, and characteristics. Fruit wine rendered effervescent by carbon dioxide resulting solely from the secondary fermentation of the wine within a closed container, tank, or bottle shall be further designated as “sparkling”; and fruit wine rendered effervescent by carbon dioxide otherwise derived shall be further designated as “carbonated.”

 

[aurora_colony_cider]

Thanks bucketnative.

They like to make this stuff simple, don't they?

Like Nutrition labeling on bottles of cider ? Why on some, why not on others? The mind boggles.

 

[bucketnative]

They like to make this stuff simple, don't they?

Try working in med dev/pharma...

 

[bmd2k1]

Thanks bucketnative.

They like to make this stuff simple, don't they?

Like Nutrition labeling on bottles of cider ? Why on some, why not on others? The mind boggles.

Curious how your cider venture is going?

Cheers!

 

[aurora_colony_cider]

Curious how your cider venture is going?

Cheers!

I'm just about to start my first commercial batch in January working a custom crush agreement with a local winery. It was so near the end of the year when the local authority gave me permission I thought I'd push it out a little to avoid paying the fee for 2017 AND 2018.

Starting very small and I will report occasionally on the high and lows.

Thanks for asking.

R.

 

[bmd2k1]

Awesome....best of luck!

Did you decide to go with brites...kegs...etc?

 

[MarkKF]

I'm gonna suggest something. Start with dry/still ciders. There is a a market for it and not many places make it. It's easier and might give you a niche to fill, especially at a winery.

 

[aurora_colony_cider]

Hello all.

I said I'd give an update. I currently have 250 gallons of juice bubbling away over at the winery. It's a crab apple blend. MarkKF, starting with just a dry at first but I am going to do sparkling, just my own preference to drink. bmd2k1, thanks for the support. I am going to keg only, from a brite tank. It costs $38 to produce a case of 12oz cans and they sell for $25-30, bottles are even more expensive. The kegs I am going to use are the 30l plastic kegs that sell at $20 a pop. They are single use so I don't have to go back to pick them up. Should be hitting pubs around early June!!! R.

 

[bmd2k1]

Congrats! Very exciting stuff. Keep us posted on your progress & post some pics if ya can.

Curious...did you scale up from doing 5gal batches to 250gal or were there intermediate steps?

Cheers to ur new adventure! [emoji111]

 

[MarkKF]

I’d love to hear more about these plastic kegs. A small brewery near me started with plastic kegs but multi use. After a year he was selling them all. IDKW

 

[aurora_colony_cider]

Here is a link to the keg details.

http://dolium.eu/product-details/dolium-pet-keg-30-litre-slimline/1001

I'm going with this brand as there is a local distributor with free shipping.

When you say, "After a year he was selling them all" do you mean he was selling them empty as he didn't like them?

I know a local brewery selling beer in them and they seem to work a treat.

R.

 

[MarkKF]

When you say, "After a year he was selling them all" do you mean he was selling them empty as he didn't like them?

He switched to metal kegs. Don’t know if the brewer or the bars made it happen.