Boil kettle condenser - no overhead ventilation needed

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There's another thread ongoing about thermal stress in the boil affecting the wort. I've read enough about this that I think it's a reasonable approach, and one I've been moving toward. Did a batch on Sunday, and had my power setting on either 35 or 45 percent (can't recall which for some reason, perhaps the pint of beer i'm sipping has something to do with that :)).

I think Brundog already noted in this thread (or someone did) that DMS boiloff seems to occur sufficiently at those lower, more simmering boil levels. Seems reasonable.
 
mongoose33 said:
OK, I've put it through its paces, at least a bit. Here's a short video showing how it works. Amazingly enough, it pulls a slight vacuum and no steam escapes the kettle around the lid. The equipment is first-rate and easy to set up.

However.....as you watch the video, note the steam that escapes the bucket. I'm sure it's less than if I just left the kettle uncovered, but there still was a fair amount of steam. I think it may work best in a bucket on which there's a lid and a hole for the silicone hose. If not, all we're doing is changing the location where the steam originates.



Here is a pic showing the use of two 90-degree elbows to either raise the unit or change the location relative to the kettle.

View attachment 589120

I have the 9gph nozzle on mine. I collected the waste water for 5 minutes by timer and measured the output: 1 gallon and 3/4 cup of water. Multiplied by 12 for an hour, and it's about 13 gallons. I may be able to dial that back a bit with the main valve; the small on on top of the unit is not able to adjust finely enough to do that. The water collected in the bucket was about 154 degrees.

I don't know if the 6gph nozzle will also work and of course reduce water usage. I'll have to see if I can get one, or if Bobby will offer them as a separate part.

So--it works, though some work needs to be done with the steam coming out of the bucket. I was hoping to virtually eliminate steam, and that's not happening at this point. More experimenting will be done. I might use a longer silicone hose and extend it to the P-trap under my sink, though that would just change the location of the steam coming from the unit.
Click to expand...

Sorry but I couldn't see any steam coming from the bucket. Are you able to use a long enough hose to run the water outside? The water cooling via a longer run might eliminate the steam all together.
 
@mongoose33 Edit: Rewording this whole section. I didn't explain it well the first time

trying to adjust something that is pressure based by changing the volumetric flow rate is really hard. As long as the flow rate of the nozzle is smaller than the flow rate of the valve upstream the pressure being delivered will be the upstream line pressure. So as long as your valve is delivering greater than 9gph the pressure in the system will be your water source line pressure. If you can fine adjust and get it to be JUST under 9gph, you'll lower the pressure a little and lower the flow. But you're fighting with the tinest window and honestly it just isn't the right way to do it. There's a bunch of simplifications in that explanation.

The correct way to do it is with a true regulator like this one.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N7JZTYX/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

That will let you dial your line pressure down accurately and repeatably. Even if the line pressure changes it should hold your setting. I will say that you shouldn't try to adjust below the sprayer stated flow rate. meaning if you want less than 9gph, get the 6gph spray nozzle and run it with higher pressure than 40psi. If you try to go lower than the stated sprayer flow rate you're going to risk not atomizing the water as much and make the condenser much less effective.

BrunDog said:
What you need is a pressure vessel of some sort... like a RO system pressure bladder so that the pump cycles get absorbed/buffered. A long length of flexible type tube might work... but the tube would have to provide the compliance since water is non-compressible.

Maybe something like this could work, but would probably need larger: http://a.co/d/gi6HWbi. Something like this definitely would: http://a.co/d/aSlDez4

Or, if I am you... I would crank the pressure switch up to the pump's limit. The pump will have a harder time providing high volume at pressure and might run continuously. It will also atomize better and add more water to condense better. Give that a try first - worse comes to it you burn out the pump a bit prematurely... but for $20 it wont crush the wallet.
Click to expand...

Cheap pump doesn't have an adjustable pressure switch so I'm stuck with what I've got. The flexible bladder might work, but that takes up a bunch of space. I'm going to experiment with bleeding some water off a bit more before I call that method dead or not. If it doesn't work I'll look at something like you linked. Right now the pump claims a shut off pressure of 116psi, which doesn't mean it can really build that much pressure just that it shuts off there. I want to put the pressure gauge on it first and see what I'm getting. Theoretically as long as I'm getting 40psi at the spray nozzle I should be ok.
 
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Just installed my steam Slayer as part of an expirimental system . Being that one of the frequent complaints of the low wattage all in one systems is the weak boil. Having a closed lid system seems like it would remedy that. Grabbed a non pump robobrew for a steal a few weeks ago and have been watching this thread, figure I'll guinea pig for those out there with these types of systems. Given the robobrew has a clamping lid, it should help provide a positive seal and ensure the vacuum for steam to exit. Still have a few items to setup for the system, but should get a brew done in week or two.
 

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Brewbuzzard said:
Sorry but I couldn't see any steam coming from the bucket. Are you able to use a long enough hose to run the water outside? The water cooling via a longer run might eliminate the steam all together.
Click to expand...

Look just to the right and above the dial thermometer on the counterflow chiller. You're not going to see steam above the kettle--it's being drawn into the steam slayer.
 
Did a water run of my new setup. Ended up not running the RIMS up to temp because the RTD in the tube is now reading 30 deg high, which is weird. Just set it up to boil, got from 80F to boiling in under an hour. My controller reads boil as 210, and the low boil I was aiming for as 209.

The condenser works awesome. I did this run with the sink hooked up through a long tubing run. Pump experiments will come later since I didn't get to grab a gauge today. Boiled off just over half a gallon, and had the power set to 70%. I have 3000W total, so that's around 2100W of power. If I insulate my kettle and lid I'm sure I can get that even lower, but right now I'm bleeding a lot of heat to the room. Completely thrilled with how well the condenser worked though. I think I generated around 8 gallons of water through it? Maybe a touch less? Waste water was in the 140 range, so it's more than enough cooling capacity for my setup.

Brundog Huge thanks for pioneering this setup, couldn't be happier with it.
 
Mine came today. Looks like a trip to the hw store for some fittings is in order to get the water hooked up.
 
milldoggy said:
I have 4 CFCs, copper chillzilla, stainless version, stainless shell and tube and just got the stout one. The shell and tube was ok, not near the efficiency of the spiral cfcs. There was a difference between the copper one and stainless one, but I recriculate, so was not a big deal. I recall it was just a few more minutes. Have not tested the stout.

I have idiopathic neuropathy in a toes and feet, been through every test know to man. No idea, so I started to eliminate things in life, so I cut all copper out of my Brewery, has it helped, unsure I changed so many things in my diet, but why risk it.
Click to expand...
Dude I feel for you. My wife just came down with that a few weeks ago and we are in the testing mode now. That **** really hurts, my wife is tough and it has debilitated her so much. I hope you find relief.
 
mongoose33 said:
I originally planned on a lid port but drew the same conclusion you did, i.e., it'd be harder to maneuver.
Click to expand...
I plan to install mine on the lid. I will also include an access port that can be flipped open to add hops. If the lid is clamped tight and the port is designed right it shouldn't affect performance. IMO;-)
 
Brewbuzzard said:
I plan to install mine on the lid. I will also include an access port that can be flipped open to add hops. If the lid is clamped tight and the port is designed right it shouldn't affect performance. IMO;-)
Click to expand...
After examining my kit from Bobby M, I've decided to go with the lid mounting option, for two considerations. 1. Wherever I put it on the kettle, I'll probably wish it was somewhere else. 2. I can clamp the lid on my drill press table.
 
mongoose33 said:
OK, I've put it through its paces, at least a bit. Here's a short video showing how it works. Amazingly enough, it pulls a slight vacuum and no steam escapes the kettle around the lid. The equipment is first-rate and easy to set up.

However.....as you watch the video, note the steam that escapes the bucket. I'm sure it's less than if I just left the kettle uncovered, but there still was a fair amount of steam. I think it may work best in a bucket on which there's a lid and a hole for the silicone hose. If not, all we're doing is changing the location where the steam originates.
Click to expand...
I spray right into a pot, no escaping steam:

Kettle Condenser.jpg


Link to my build thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...11-gallon-bayou-classic-with-boilcoil.643196/
 
For the record, no need to clamp the lid on with a lid mounted system if it's mounted inward enough. I have mine just set on and there's no risk of tipping or falling off. I'll probably add a second 1.5" TC to the lid for adding additions, but for now it's easy enough to just lift the lid and dump in quickly.

Ignore the messiness. I hadn't trimmed the zip tie markers on the sight tube yet, and the water source line placement was just for testing.

20180921_154152.jpg
 
cegan09 said:
For the record, no need to clamp the lid on with a lid mounted system if it's mounted inward enough. I have mine just set on and there's no risk of tipping or falling off. I'll probably add a second 1.5" TC to the lid for adding additions, but for now it's easy enough to just lift the lid and dump in quickly.

Ignore the messiness. I hadn't trimmed the zip tie markers on the sight tube yet, and the water source line placement was just for testing.

View attachment 589290
Click to expand...

It probably helps that you have a fitting on the other side which balances the weight.
 
mongoose33 said:
Sent my kettle into Spike last friday to have them add a couple TC ports to my kettle. I was just stunned at the quality of the work--unbelievably good. I don't know how they get it to look like this, but I'm not complaining.

That port is for Bobby's steamcatcher. Hope it's close to being here, I have other things I need to order from him and I'd like to get it all on one shipment.

View attachment 583630
Click to expand...
Hi @mongoose33
Would you mind sharing info about how much Spike charged and what the turn around was? Did they send a return slip or did you have to figure shipping on your own? So glad I still have the box.

Thanks for any info.

The steam condenser route is probably the more logical and cost effective way to go after pricing out a condensate hood.
 
cegan09 said:
For the record, no need to clamp the lid on with a lid mounted system if it's mounted inward enough. I have mine just set on and there's no risk of tipping or falling off. I'll probably add a second 1.5" TC to the lid for adding additions, but for now it's easy enough to just lift the lid and dump in quickly.

Ignore the messiness. I hadn't trimmed the zip tie markers on the sight tube yet, and the water source line placement was just for testing.

View attachment 589290
Click to expand...
I like orings for my sight glass markers, little cleaner. :)
 
PeteSeattle said:
Hi @mongoose33
Would you mind sharing info about how much Spike charged and what the turn around was? Did they send a return slip or did you have to figure shipping on your own? So glad I still have the box.

Thanks for any info.

The steam condenser route is probably the more logical and cost effective way to go after pricing out a condensate hood.
Click to expand...

It cost me $50 per TC port welded into the kettle. As it turned out, I had two ports welded in, plus bought an extra lid. Total $140. Because the amount was above $100, shipping was free.

Now, I live about 2 1/2 hours from Spike, so I don't know what they would do in your case (Seattle). Clearly you'd have to have more than $100 of work, and I'm guessing you'd have free shipping, but that's only a guess.

Turnaround is that they only do custom work on Fridays, so if your kettle shows up on Monday, it's not getting done until Friday. Also, you need to fill out a spec sheet that shows exactly what you want and where on the kettle you want it positioned. Then they'd have to slot you in. Again, contact them at their email address.

Here's the one I sent them. There was a limit to how close to the kettle rim I could go, and how close to the handle, you may have to talk to them and figure that out.

spikespecsTCports.JPG
 
mongoose33 said:
It cost me $50 per TC port welded into the kettle. As it turned out, I had two ports welded in, plus bought an extra lid. Total $140. Because the amount was above $100, shipping was free.

Now, I live about 2 1/2 hours from Spike, so I don't know what they would do in your case (Seattle). Clearly you'd have to have more than $100 of work, and I'm guessing you'd have free shipping, but that's only a guess.

Turnaround is that they only do custom work on Fridays, so if your kettle shows up on Monday, it's not getting done until Friday. Also, you need to fill out a spec sheet that shows exactly what you want and where on the kettle you want it positioned. Then they'd have to slot you in. Again, contact them at their email address.

Here's the one I sent them. There was a limit to how close to the kettle rim I could go, and how close to the handle, you may have to talk to them and figure that out.

View attachment 589653
Click to expand...
This is terrific information. Thank you very much! Figures that you live very close since it was hardly a weekend after you got your kettle back.

Just waiting to hear back from them.
 
PeteSeattle said:
This is terrific information. Thank you very much! Figures that you live very close since it was hardly a weekend after you got your kettle back.

Just waiting to hear back from them.
Click to expand...

Actually, I didn't ship; that's just what it would have cost. I had a friend go into Milwaukee on Thursday night; he dropped it off Friday am, picked it up late Friday pm, and I had it back Sunday night.
 
I have skimmed through this thread, so my apologies if this has been answered. What are the advantages of this system over a CFC or condenser like a still uses?
 
Dory Rules said:
I have skimmed through this thread, so my apologies if this has been answered. What are the advantages of this system over a CFC or condenser like a still uses?
Click to expand...
This system is intended to 'collect' steam, for the purpose of brewing indoors (electric only) without having to install an expensive ventilation system. It does not duplicate a distillation condenser, and is not in any way related to a Counter Flow Chiller (CFC). Hope this clears up any confusion.

This system also cuts power consumption and boil off approximately in half, but that's just lagniap, as they say in New Orleans. Something extra, for free.
 
I suppose the question is why not use a cold coil to do the condensing. I think this could be possible, but the amount of heat that needs to be pulled out is fairly high so it would need to be a good sized coil. Plus, assuming this would need a closed loop of cooling fluid, a chiller of adequate capacity would be needed. Alternatively I suppose a radiator (air:water:air) could be used but it would need a pump and be appropriately sized. For someone dead set against using water, this could be a solution but would certainly be more complex and costly.
 
Spike just contacted me about adding the port. $60 for shipping both ways and $50 for the addition. Much more reasonable than purchasing and installing a condensate hood. Estimated turn around will be 1.5-2 weeks. Good thing I still have the box.

Luckily I didn’t sell me ebiab set up yet which will be my substitute kettle until I get it back.
 
PeteSeattle said:
Spike just contacted me about adding the port. $60 for shipping both ways and $50 for the addition. Much more reasonable than purchasing and installing a condensate hood. Estimated turn around will be 1.5-2 weeks. Good thing I still have the box.

Luckily I didn’t sell me ebiab set up yet which will be my substitute kettle until I get it back.
Click to expand...

you can use brewhardware's weldless, he even sells the drill bit, around $30 for both
 
Ozarks_Mountain_Brew said:
you can use brewhardware's weldless, he even sells the drill bit, around $30 for both
Click to expand...
That’s what I was looking to do until I saw what Spike did for @mongoose33 and I really dig at how clean and flawless the weld was in the photo.

But knowing me I’d probably end up spending more if I did it myself. I don’t have a good track record for diy. Lol.
 
Here's my rooftop installation on a 15 gal. kettle. The angle is account of the dome shape of the lid. I made the hole as close to the center as possible. To my immense surprise, the condenser assembly does not overbalance the lid, even when I shake the fool out of the whole kettle.

As soon as my daughter finishes up a quilted wrapper and lid cover, I'll be ready for some plain water calibration runs.

Thanks again to Brundog, Bobby M, and everyone else who has contributed here!
20180926_140417.jpeg
 
schematix said:
View attachment 590013

I put mine in a 13/16” hole I already had. Not expecting it to work but cool if it does and a plan b if it doesn’t.
Click to expand...
The Brew-Boss unit comes like this and apparently it works for them. I bought one a while back, but I just removed it and went with a trip clamp, but I think there's Hope for it.
 
Plan A is dead before i even started. Since I pre-heat my water the night before to near boiling it's already filling the bucket. Gonna have to put a valve on i guess.
 
schematix said:
Plan A is dead before i even started. Since I pre-heat my water the night before to near boiling it's already filling the bucket. Gonna have to put a valve on i guess.
Click to expand...
Are you saying that the small amount of steam that's generated sitting at near boiling temps is filling the bucket overnight? If so, no need for a valve. Just submerge the end of the steam slayer hose into a few inches of water. It'll create enough back pressure that it keeps anything from escaping.
 
TexasWine said:
Are you saying that the small amount of steam that's generated sitting at near boiling temps is filling the bucket overnight? If so, no need for a valve. Just submerge the end of the steam slayer hose into a few inches of water. It'll create enough back pressure that it keeps anything from escaping.
Click to expand...

Yah that's what was happening. The steam is escaping and condensing in the slayer, then dripping down. I'm not sure submerging would help a lot but i suppose i can try something like that next time. For now i just took the slayer off and capped it. I'll put it back on before i transfer to the BK.

I guess its a good sign though that steam was making its way in through that small hole.
 
schematix said:
Yah that's what was happening. The steam is escaping and condensing in the slayer, then dripping down. I'm not sure submerging would help a lot but i suppose i can try something like that next time. For now i just took the slayer off and capped it. I'll put it back on before i transfer to the BK.

I guess its a good sign though that steam was making its way in through that small hole.
Click to expand...

Seems to me that if you just terminated the hose in a bucket of water the steam would escape around the rim, defeating the purpose.

Is there any way you can put a timer on it?

One reason--there are several--I switched to electric brewing was so I didn't have to babysit the propane burner. Now, when I get up, before I make coffee, I flip on the burner in the already-filled kettle. Then while I'm doing other things, that water is heating up.

Don't know the details of your system--looks like a 20-gallon kettle above, mine's a 10--but I'm hitting boiling in about a half hour. Double that for a double batch....maybe the answer is just flipping it on early.

Another idea--I've done this--is pre-boil or pre-heat the night before and cover it and/or just let it sit. It'll retain a lot of heat that way so you don't start from zero.

Some thoughts on things you might try, might work or not for you, or might stimulate some other idea that's better.
 
mongoose33 said:
Seems to me that if you just terminated the hose in a bucket of water the steam would escape around the rim, defeating the purpose.

Is there any way you can put a timer on it?

One reason--there are several--I switched to electric brewing was so I didn't have to babysit the propane burner. Now, when I get up, before I make coffee, I flip on the burner in the already-filled kettle. Then while I'm doing other things, that water is heating up.

Don't know the details of your system--looks like a 20-gallon kettle above, mine's a 10--but I'm hitting boiling in about a half hour. Double that for a double batch....maybe the answer is just flipping it on early.

Another idea--I've done this--is pre-boil or pre-heat the night before and cover it and/or just let it sit. It'll retain a lot of heat that way so you don't start from zero.

Some thoughts on things you might try, might work or not for you, or might stimulate some other idea that's better.
Click to expand...


I *could* put a timer on it, but i don't have a 230V timer for it currently.

The lid doesn't leak steam at all unless it's on a hard boil.

I have recently switched to weekday evening brewing. That means i need to be done in as little time as possible since i don't start until ~4:30. When i get home its right into finishing the pre-boil while i mill, then purge the MLT while i wait for the chiling, then mash in.

I currently have 17.5G of water sitting just off the boil with my 5500W elemenet at 10% power (huge waste of energy holding this for 18 hours!). 10% is almost enough to hold it, but it does cool off a few degrees. It takes about 90 minutes to heat the water to a boil, so it's definitely something i want to do ahead of time, and i currently only have 1 way to do that, which is the night before.
 
The small amount of steam pre-boil will create some pressure and head out that hole. The metal body of the condenser will pull some of that heat out and therefore condense some of the liquid.

Boiling is another animal altogether. The heat output is dramatically higher.
 

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