Best BJCP contests to enter?

[bethebrew]

I'm a world class brewer who wants to get serious about entering amateur BJCP contests for prizes and feedback. Are there any contests that have serious judging with serious prizes and worthwhile score sheet comments? I'm only willing to spend an entry fee and waste even a bottle of my world class brew screwing around with entry fees and joker judges who aren't even BJCP qualified, or if they are it's barely. Then, you have to send them not only money but three bottles and ship it to them. What happens to the other two bottles that they didn't judge? Uh huh, typical scam. Then the worst part is the favoritism and homebrew club judges who award their friends.

 

[Yooper]

The bottle requirements are not "a scam"- it's so that you have a fresh bottle of a beer that goes onto to the Best Of Show round. For the BOS round, you get a new panel of judges and a fresh bottle of the beer to see which is the #1 and #2 beer of the competition. Sometimes a bottle gushes, so the steward will get the second, and try again. If it's a two-bottle comp, that means that beer automatically can't be in the BOS round but it is still judged and may win in its category.

There are several well regarded national competitions, and I wouldn't hesitate to enter those. Right off of the top of my head is the Bluebonnet (just finished for this year), but there are lots more. I think that many of my national judge friends (and higher ranked, like Grand masters) will be doing the Indiana State Fair in July.

BJCP judges work very hard to earn their rank, and they get $0 pay. They pay their own traveling and lodging expenses when they travel to competitions as well. So while I know you're asking for well-regarded competitions, the tone of your post is that BJCP judges like myself are just out to scam you out of your awesome beer. While we all enjoy judging good beer, most of the beers we judge in competition are not award-winners, and we do it for the love of the hobby so that others can get good quality feedback and grow as brewers.

I've had far more bad to medium-good beers in judging that great beers- even in the nationals. The NHC is generally at least medium-good, but not for all of the beers. I've had more than a couple infected rotten nasty beers (one with a spider in the bottom!) than excellent ones.

Also, since the bottles are numbered and not labeled with the brewer's name, I don't know how I could possibly pick a friend's beer out of the 600 in the competition. I'm good, but I'm not nearly THAT good. It's really insulting to think that our BJCP competitions are accused of being run like that.

 

[bethebrew]

I can see two beers in case you get to BOS but one of our local contests wants three beers. Then they have a night where they drink entries just for yucks. I would consider that a bit of a scam, but maybe that's not typical. Perhaps the problem is partly that judges get paid $0 but really do have a lot of work to do to properly judge a contest. They really should get paid something for their time and expenses. Don't get me wrong, I love a good judges comments, as long as they are truly BJCP certified and understand the styles and what makes a good beer. Maybe there are just too many entries for too few unpaid judges, I don't know. I wonder where the entry fees go for these contests, and why some of it shouldn't go to those that judge for their meal and motel if it's a big contest. You can't expect someone to work for nothing and have to get certified to boot. Seems like a higher entry fee would keep the judges from having to judge as many beers, and to pay them something only seems fair to me. Also, if a contest if advertised as BJCP, shouldn't the judges be certified?

 

[Qhrumphf]

I can see two beers in case you get to BOS but one of our local contests wants three beers. Then they have a night where they drink entries just for yucks. I would consider that a bit of a scam, in addition to charging an entry fee. Perhaps the problem is partly that judges get paid $0 but really do have a lot of work to do to properly judge a contest. They really should get paid something for their time and expenses. Don't get me wrong, I love a good judges comments, as long as they are truly BJCP certified and understand the styles and what makes a good beer. Maybe there are just too many entries for too few unpaid judges, I don't know. The quality of judging seems very variable, and if a contest if advertised as BJCP, shouldn't the judges be certified?

Three bottles allows an extra bottle for gushers/problems/misplacement/whatever, but mainly for mini-BOS. This is common in large comps. And it only works in your favor as I've had numerous times judging mini-BOS in two bottle comps where a beer that was wonderful when we tasted it initially be significantly worse at mini-BOS, and lose out on a placement as a result, especially if its the first beer in a long flight. Recapping and puttimg back in the fridge will only do so much. The third bottle allows for a fresh taste while still leaving a bottle for BOS.

And in most cases, most entries will only need the first bottle, but they need two or three of every one. I see no problem drinking them. And sometimes a high ranking judge will grab some for use on judge exams.

As far as judging, I have my issues with a lot of judges but you're painting with a very broad, very insulting brush. Some of us take it very seriously. And certification takes time and is not easy. And getting to higher ranks is even harder. Judges don't grow on trees. How about becoming one yourself? You'll gain a whole new appreciation for it.

To be perfectly honest, it sounds to me like you've got an inflated perception of your own brewing prowess, and your comp results haven't backed it up, and you've got some butthurt as a result. I haven't tasted your beer so who knows, maybe you ARE a world class brewer, but few excellent brewers I know deserving that kind of praise would boast about it like that.

 

[orangehero]

So, being a world class brewer, you brew world class beer, but for some reason every time you enter a BJCP competition the judges don't seem to agree?

Of course their feedback won't seem helpful, how can you improve on world class?

Obviously it's not you...I agree it's most definitely a scam.

 

[NervousDad]

I enter about 15 comps a year and every one gives me excellent feedback. I occasionally get a score that doesn't match up with the majority of other comps but any bottle can have a bad day.

I don't profess to brew world class beer though. But I will say that I make pretty good beer and my scores pretty much indicate that.

 

[EcuPirate07]

OP is blowing my mind with this thread. :smack:

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

OP is blowing my mind with this thread. :smack:

I'm going with the OP is a troll. If you already think competitions are a scam made up by BJCP judges to get drunk for free, then you probably can't be convinced any competition would be fun or interesting to enter.

Judging being variable is a fair complaint... But to start by stating you are a world class brewer automatically disqualifies anything you have to say afterwards.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

If you already think competitions are a scam made up by BJCP judges to get drunk for free

Dude, it's got to be a scam! Who wouldn't take the time to get BJCP certified, and pay for their own travel and lodging expenses, so that they can get drunk for free? Duh! That's a no brainer!

 

[Qhrumphf]

I wish it was sitting around getting drunk on free world class beer that we've scammed out of entrants. The number of good entries is increasing (but most are still barely on the good side of mediocre, if that), but so is the number of really bad ones, at least since I started judging ~2 years ago.

 

[MEPNew2Brew]

I am sorry that the Admins and other supporters used their time to respond to OP.

 

[Yooper]

I am sorry that the Admins and other supporters used their time to respond to OP.

I feel that the OP had valid reasons for the post, and really had experiences or at least the perceptions that the BJCP is a poorly run organization. I felt it was really important to communicate how hard the (all volunteer) BJCP judges work to even become recognized and how hard the BJCP works as a whole to educate and promote only the best judges.

I didn't know until I started judging in 2008 how the process worked- how the judges sampled so many terrible beers, but still filled out helpful scoresheets. How much it costs to even get recognized in some places- traveling, testing, etc- all costs $$$$$ that is not reimbursed. It's a labor of love, but unfortunately some competitions are not as well run as others. I think the OP was asking about some of the best, to get quality scoresheets and feedback as so to continue to brew the best beers possible.

It is a sad thing when someone thinks they make great beer to get a score sheet with a score of 35, even though 35 is "very good" and close to "excellent". I think it's helpful to remember that judges don't judge by "this is a good beer". They judge by the BJCP standards which tell you how a beer is supposed to be. A very hoppy light lager would score poorly, but maybe taste phenomenal. That would be disappointing for someone expected us to go strictly by "I like this beer!" The best part of judging is getting back your scoresheets, with honest feedback and tips on how to make the beer better.

If the reason for entering is to win competitions, then some BJCP competitions are a disappointment (prizes may be minimal). But if you want to get honest instructional feedback, a competition is perfect for them.

 

[Oginme]

As a small batch brewer, I can see the reluctance to part with extra bottles. But then again, a bottle brewed costs me roughly $0.40 to $0.60, not counting energy consumption. Two bottles to three bottles when I am entering a contest is a minimal additional cost when compared to the cost of the entry.

Next, I enter about 3 to 4 contests a year and look for the feedback. Otherwise, we would all be 'world class' brewers. If and when I get some swag from placing in competition, it is a bonus. I am primarily paying entry fee + bottles for neutral feedback from someone with a minimum of training and experience. There have been occasions when I get a score sheet back from a non-BJCP judge and I weight the feedback accordingly. In many cases, their feedback has been pretty close to that of the other judge(s) in that competition. If I did not find the feedback sufficient or useful, I would not enter that particular competition again.

As Yooper pointed out, it can be a sad thing when you enter what you think is a great beer and it does not score well. I've had a beer score 40 in one competition and 33 at another, judged within weeks of each other. Going by one judging alone, in my thinking and experience, is like investing all your money on one lottery ticket. You risk your feedback if a bottle was not handled correctly and minimize your chances of winning if that is your goal.

While I have not helped at any competitions due to essentially three jobs and an erratic schedule, I have talked to judges and others who help steward at a competition to know that it is not all fun, games and getting drunk. I have a lot of respect for people who spend much time and money on training, travel, and certification just to help others out.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I've had a beer score 40 in one competition and 33 at another, judged within weeks of each other.

If that's as far as your variance goes, then you've got it good.

Judge variability is DEFINITELY a legit complaint, as is the lack of properly certified judges, especially at larger comps (don't get me started on my frustration with only getting sheets from low ranking judges at NHC). But that's one I don't have an answer to.

Two instances last year, I had a beer score a 38 in one comp and win me a bronze (scoring 36-40 in a few other comps), only to turn around a WEEK LATER from the same batch, and score me a 19 for an alleged infection. Could have been a bad bottle (would have been the only one of a 10 gallon batch), could have been bad judges, but from what I understand that comp had some issues with bottles getting swapped accidentally. No way to know. I wrote it off.

Then I had a beer score a 40, get me a gold, and then two weeks later at NHC first round, score a 19 for alleged fusels. That one didn't make the rounds in any other comps, but definitely no fusels in there.

I was livid from both, and mostly stopped entering at that point. A few points here or there, I can live with that. Some styles (Milds for example), I know not to expect a good result, because most judges haven't had an authentic example and the guidelines are easy to misinterpret without that context. Same thing, I can live with that. But ~20 point swings between the same batch and within 1-2 weeks of each other is a bit much.

So if that were the complaint the OP made, I'd be completely in agreement.

And then there's the idea, any comp you score well has great judges, any comp you don't has bad judges.

But ultimately, while I know I make consistently good beer (occasionally a new recipe won't turn out how I intended, but still procedurally sound), I'd never boast that I'm a world class brewer.

 

[Oginme]

That is the largest differential I have encountered so far, given time differences in contests. Since I will enter a beer in 2 to 3 contests and they all seem to fall in the Spring/early Summer in my area, I do have to say that the scores have been generally consistent. 4 to 5 point spread in three different contests, in my opinion, is pretty good given that we are using different palates to judge.

Since I AM looking at the feedback from the judges as my reward for entering, I line up all the score sheets, open a bottle from that brew session and look for the consistencies in comments compared to what I can taste. Here there is a lot more variability versus scores.

I've also learned over the years not to sweat the small stuff. If you want to see wide variability in judging, watch a few livestock shows. Even when working from the same unified score card, there are vastly wide swings in placings and reasonings. In the end, there will always be another show and another judge.

 

[EcuPirate07]

I'm gonna high jack this thread for a minute. I entered my first "corrupt" BJCP contest that was judged on 3/19. Obviously getting your scores vary, but what have y'all seen as a typical turnaround?

 

[dmtaylor]

I'm a world class brewer who wants to get serious about entering amateur BJCP contests for prizes and feedback. Are there any contests that have serious judging with serious prizes and worthwhile score sheet comments? I'm only willing to spend an entry fee and waste even a bottle of my world class brew screwing around with entry fees and joker judges who aren't even BJCP qualified, or if they are it's barely. Then, you have to send them not only money but three bottles and ship it to them. What happens to the other two bottles that they didn't judge? Uh huh, typical scam. Then the worst part is the favoritism and homebrew club judges who award their friends.

I think this is an excellent question, and I share your concerns. For many years I have been maintaining a list of the best and worst contests with respect to quality feedback and prizes (and mostly in the Midwest simply because that's where I am). The best I've seen:

BUZZ Boneyard Brewoff - Jan - Champaign, IL
Great Northern Brew-Ha-Ha - Jan/Feb - Duluth, MN
BABBLE Brew-Off - Gurnee, IL - Feb/Mar - Gurnee, IL
Drunk Monk Challenge - Mar - Aurora, IL
Michigan Beer Cup - Jul/Aug - Michigan
Happy Holiday Homebrew Comp - Nov/Dec - St. Louis, MO
Minnesota Mashout - Dec/Jan - Roseville, MN

Those are the ones I'm aware of with good feedback and good prizes both.

Cheers.

EDIT: I am a Certified judge myself and have judged many comps including Best of Show rounds, etc. And I still have very mixed feelings about the BJCP and where it is/was/where it's headed. Funny how a judging organization is not very receptive to feedback either. Also, just like Qhrumphf discusses above, I have seen many times where one of my beer scores in the 40s in one competition, then 20 points less in the next. It's very discouraging and disheartening that we can't be more consistent than that. I'm an advocate for public execution for bad judges (no not really but sometimes that's how angry I get). In reality, well, reality sucks and there's no way we're ever going to fix bad judges. And it's just going to get worse and worse, as more idiots jump on the judging bandwagon, and more styles are generated (2015 Guidelines, anyone?) that no one knows jack-s*** about. That's why I barely enter any competitions anymore. It's too much of a crapshoot. Plus, if you become a judge yourself, then you'll know when you yourself are brewing world-class beer or crappy beer, and really don't need to enter comps for validation. I've brewed my share of both 40s and 20s, and most are someplace in between, and I know that. Such is life.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

One thing that I've noticed when I get variations in scores.

It's a hobby, most of the time I like my beer, I'm entering competitions purely for humble-bragging and for fun. If I get really mad about a bad score, is it really a hobby anymore? If I felt truly wronged by a judge, I would go out and get certified myself and start stewarding/judging competitions to try and improve the overall quality of people's experience entering competition... But I'm way too lazy for that cause I've seen how much work it is for even really small competitions.

 

[m00ps]

totally dude. My brews are WORLD CLASS too. I dont let anyone drink them that isnt deemed worthy

 

[2005STi]

I enter about 15 comps a year and every one gives me excellent feedback. I occasionally get a score that doesn't match up with the majority of other comps but any bottle can have a bad day.

I don't profess to brew world class beer though. But I will say that I make pretty good beer and my scores pretty much indicate that.

Beautifully put. OP has a ridiculous ego even if his beer was consistantly incredible

 

[2005STi]

I'm going with the OP is a troll. If you already think competitions are a scam made up by BJCP judges to get drunk for free, then you probably can't be convinced any competition would be fun or interesting to enter.

Judging being variable is a fair complaint... But to start by stating you are a world class brewer automatically disqualifies anything you have to say afterwards.

I don't think he's trolling, only delusional. After a quick search of threads he's created, there are several tied to competition brewing dating back even a few years. And after reading a few of his posts, there's the same air of narcissism and skepticism in judging that's in this thread.

To the OP, enter the NHC, give us your name and we'll see how great you are by how many beers you advance and how many medals you receive.

Surely a World Class Brewer like yourself should pass all 5 beers to the second round and pull in several medals from there. Let us know

 

[BeardedBrews]

Surely a World Class Brewer like yourself should pass all 5 beers to the second round and pull in several medals from there. Let us know

He would if the NHC wasn't so jam packed with corruption! I mean last year there were 7663 entries, which means in the first round alone there were over 15,000 bottles. I bet they are just washing those and re-selling them on craigslist, that's probably why they make us send them in with no labels!!

[/s]

 

[jleiii]

I've encountered disparity with the very first beer I submitted to an AHA/BJCP based competition, just last month, so I can appreciate why the OP might be skeptical.

First competition I took 3rd (of 16) in category with a 36&37.
Second failed to place (of 13) with 23&25.
Third was a 1st place (of 13), scores not yet received.

The first were force carbed in 2 liter bottles to be ready for that competition as the bottles would not have been ready in time. These are the ones I would have expected to score lower, but since I got a 3rd place with them it motivated me to enter them in 2 more.

The second and third were bottles grabbed from 'stock', so unless there was a bottle problem, I'm skeptical of the second results. I've made a number of less than good beers, a handful that were really good, but only 1 truly infected which was bad yeast, in 3+ years. This one got rave reviews from friends. With easily 50+ cases bottled, and no bombs or infections, I think these bottles were probably all fine. The other 25 or so already drunk were fine too.

I'm really anxious for the last results and see how they compare to the low scores, and what, if any 'defects' are noted. The 2 defects noted were probably the main cause for those low scores. One being 'under pitched' which makes me laugh. 2 week old liquid yeast, 2l starter and it erupted out of my 8gal fermenter with only 5.25 gal in it, starting at about 24 hrs from pitch, and I had to change out the blowoff cup before it was done. They were very happy yeast and plowed through it in only a few days.

I've signed up to steward at a multi day judging this coming weekend, so it will be interesting to see it behind the scenes.

 

[m00ps]

I don't think he's trolling, only delusional.

Dude, this is the internet we are talking about. The two are NOT mutually exclusive

 

[Spartan1979]

I think I'll declare myself a world class brewer. Should I add it to my signature?