Best All Around Base Grain (To Buy Bulk)

[GreenSpyder]

I guess I'm looking for opinions, so don't hold back.......

My local HB shop gives a 40% discount on base malts if I buy a 50# sack. That's roughly 5 batches, and it should keep at least a year, so that's a no-brainer.

Half my recipes use 2 row British (I often sub Meris Otter) and half use American 2 row. Am I really going to notice much difference if I go strictly to one or the other? If so, which should I use for general purposes?

(please don't tell me to crunch/eat/compare, I can't tell the difference in the final brew)

 

[Psylocide]

I would buy the 2-row since I'm normally brewing with 2-row.

But, I've got some Marris Otter SMaSH brews planned, so... if it were today, I'd have a rough time going with one or the other. Either one will be a solid choice, pick the one you use the most of.

 

[chickypad]

If you're using them both frequently why not buy both. It's only 10 batches, even if you don't use it up in 12-18 months or so it's still likely cheaper than not buying bulk. I've used base grains properly stored up to about 2 yrs old without noticeable issues.

 

[kanzimonson]

I don't mean this patronizingly, but once you've been brewing long enough you will be able to tell a difference. I like malty beers so I use a lot of Maris Otter and I consider it to be my staple pale malt. But when I'm making American IPAs I like to cut it with half two row so I can get a little cleaner flavor. So there's that.

On the other hand, a lot of pro breweries attempt to emulate that British character by mixing two row with like 5-15% munich. So there's that too.

 

[Gavin C]

Before I had used both I wondered what all the discussions about MO v 2 row were about. The MO gives a much maltier flavor and a slightly darker color to the beer. I think the MO I have used is Lovibond 3 (Thomas Fawcett)

The flavor is the big one though. A very clear difference even to my uneducated palate.

I recently bought a 55lb sack of 2 row and will likely get one of MO. My LHBS gives 20% off for bulk purchase. Works out to be about 85c/lb

For English styles and lots of others too MO is preferable I guess. Personal prefernce is highly subjective though. There is certainly no wrong option in the MO/US 2 row decision

 

[GreenSpyder]

Thanks, all good answers, but I like yours best, chickypad.

I like maltier beers, so I'll probably start with the MO. I'm bored with my usual recipes, and don't feel pure enough to go SMaSH just yet. I think I may try 2Ma2H for a bit, and see what happens.

I'll try this next:
10# OM
1# Biscuit
1oz Columbus x 60 min
1oz Cascade x 15 min

and see what happens.

 

[Hello]

First I did Maris otter and 2 row, I just bought golden promise and 2 row.

 

[brewkinger]

Thanks, all good answers, but I like yours best, chickypad.

I like maltier beers, so I'll probably start with the MO. I'm bored with my usual recipes, and don't feel pure enough to go SMaSH just yet. I think I may try 2Ma2H for a bit, and see what happens.

I'll try this next:
10# OM
1# Biscuit
1oz Columbus x 60 min
1oz Cascade x 15 min

and see what happens.

First of all, I am not sure what you mean by not being pure enough for a SMaSH beer.
That is how you can figure out which one should be your go to base grain.
Since you plan on buying both varieties, I would make 3 beers.
One with 2 row and hops, another with MO and same hops, and the 3rd with a 50-50 blend of base malt.
See which one you like.
See

 

[kanzimonson]

First of all, I am not sure what you mean by not being pure enough for a SMaSH beer.
That is how you can figure out which one should be your go to base grain.
Since you plan on buying both varieties, I would make 3 beers.
One with 2 row and hops, another with MO and same hops, and the 3rd with a 50-50 blend of base malt.
See which one you like.
See

Or make two smash brews and blend them in the glass?

 

[motobrewer]

I stock Maris Otter, Pilsner, and US 2-Row.

 

[azazel1024]

I don't mean this patronizingly, but once you've been brewing long enough you will be able to tell a difference. I like malty beers so I use a lot of Maris Otter and I consider it to be my staple pale malt. But when I'm making American IPAs I like to cut it with half two row so I can get a little cleaner flavor. So there's that.

On the other hand, a lot of pro breweries attempt to emulate that British character by mixing two row with like 5-15% munich. So there's that too.

I've seen this done and tried beers like this. I can't quite say it is spot on as using Marris Otter or something "british" base like that, but I do feel it works quite well.

I am looking at getting a sack or two soon as I just got a mill. I am going to try Pearl, as my LHBS sells it for about $55 a sack and I get 10% discount on top of that, so it is actually a little cheaper than buying it online once shipping is included (and happy to patron my LHBS).

My coworker buys Pearl as a basemalt exclusively. He uses it in all styles and loves it. From what I have heard, it is just a hint maltier than most US 2-row, but only a little. Kind of a halfway between US 2-row and Marris Otter.

He uses in IPAs, APAs, DIPAs, British ales (though he only occasionally brew those, he does mostly US styles). I think he said the only time he didn't is when he did a Barley wine, which he did 100% Marris Otter and 100% EKG to be "on style". It sounds pretty good to me. If the maltiness level went

2-Row, Pearl, Marris Otter, Vienna, Munich, Dark Munich, then Pearl sounds perfect to me. I almost always want a little more malt than 2-row can give me in most of my beers, but a lot of times not as much as Marris Otter or the others (for most American styles) and for English beers sometimes I actually want just a little less malt than 100% Marris Otter gives me (I often do 70% Marris, 30% UK 2-row for the base when brewing English styles. That or I'll use 100% Mild).

 

[kanzimonson]

Related note, I had never used Vienna before so I recently made a huge mash and split the runoff to make three beers:

-11gal @ 1.055, big dose of Santiam hops to finish, pitched half with Ardennes and half with a lager yeast
-5.5gal @ 1.062 hoppy beer with all El Dorado

People always talk about how toasty Vienna was, but I did not find this to be true. The beers had a similar color to a 100% Maris Otter beer, but much less bread flavor. It was kinda like a pils malt with a clean sweetness. A little caramel note, but still a dry finish.

Just wanted to share that, as I feel like most brewers use so little Vienna malt in their beers that they really don't know its "true" flavor.

 

[kanzimonson]

Update: the brand was Franco-Belges Vienna malt

 

[azazel1024]

Related note, I had never used Vienna before so I recently made a huge mash and split the runoff to make three beers:

-11gal @ 1.055, big dose of Santiam hops to finish, pitched half with Ardennes and half with a lager yeast
-5.5gal @ 1.062 hoppy beer with all El Dorado

People always talk about how toasty Vienna was, but I did not find this to be true. The beers had a similar color to a 100% Maris Otter beer, but much less bread flavor. It was kinda like a pils malt with a clean sweetness. A little caramel note, but still a dry finish.

Just wanted to share that, as I feel like most brewers use so little Vienna malt in their beers that they really don't know its "true" flavor.

That is more or less my experience with Vienna as well, though I don't know that I'd describe that as close to Pilsner. A bit of malty sweetness, no toastiness, clean. Munich I find is very malty, with a similar sweetness to Vienna and a hint of bread to it. dark munich I find to be very malty, less sweetness and some bread.

Pilsner I find to taste "grainy" to me (not what I would describe as bready). Very unique, not often desirable (except in an actual Pilsner and in small amounts in some other German types. I never use Pilsner in any American or British style beers, no matter how light. If I need to, I'll use 100% 2-row).

2-row to me just tastes very clean, a hint of malt, not really sweet at all unless mashed high, like 154F or higher.

In British styles I think part of the reason why I often end up with at least 30% 2-row is because I often do ~1.070OG British beers (or higher), and that much Marris to me starts tasting cloying unless I mash very cool. I think it is part of the reason I am not a fan of traditional English Barley wines that are 100% Marris and EKG. Just too heavy on the malt. I personally prefer about 50% 2-row and just a little bit of Willamette/Fuggle/Challenger near the end of the boil (even if predominantly EKG) to mellow it some more.

I mean, I LOVE some traditional English Barley Wine, but I love a nice 5oz glass of it. More than that, and it is just cloying to me. I LOVE a nice BIG glass of something more like how I prefer to make it. I can drink a nice 12oz glass of that. A second too. Maybe a thir...I'll just go to sleep now, thanks.

 

[kanzimonson]

I'm right on par with everything you're saying.

A friend of mine wanted to see what an American beer would taste like with pils so he made a pale ale-ish beer. Can't remember specifics but I know it was mostly pils with some other small amounts of specialty malts. It was interesting how light it was. I personally felt like it lacked some oomph, but it was incredibly drinkable.

There's definitely something delicious there if you played with it a bit - I'd like to see a 50/50 pils/maris beer. My mind tells me it would clash but I still want to try.

 

[edroberts]

First off, obnoxious point of clarity... Maris Otter IS a 2-row malt.

I use MO for most of my bases. I prefer its flavor profile. Of course, I don't use beer simply as a hop delivery mechanism. I prefer more malted balance.

 

[kanzimonson]

First off... MO IS a 2-row malt.

I use MO for most of my bases. I prefer its flavor profile.

You can assume we people say two row they're talking about American two row, about 2L. Otherwise they'll use a clarifier like pils or MO

 

[masonsjax]

I stock a lot of different grains, probably have 5 or 6 base malts on hand right now. I like them all for different reasons, you really can't go wrong. If I was choosing only one though, I'd probably go with Pale Ale malt cause it's a great middle ground between the simple familiarity of US 2-row and the earthy malt character of Maris Otter, and it's one of the cheaper sacks available here in the States.

As for the variety of malts from across the pond, check out this terrific writeup:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/English-Base-malt-comparison.html

 

[30Bones]

I think I am buying a cheaper Rahr Am 2row, MO or Golden Promise (haven't decided), Vienna or Munich (also have yet to decide). I can only justify 3 bags and that might even be too much and I will split a bag with a friend.

I have access to Rahr, Simpson, Weyermann, Gambrinus and Chateau. I am not knowledgeable enough to know which malter is better than the others. Rahr being by far the cheapest and what I buy when I swing through Northern Brewer because I am cheap The others are within a few bucks a sack to each other.

 

[chickypad]

So 2 things to consider: 1) differences between various types of malt - i.e. Am 2-row, British pale malts like MO or Golden promise, kilned base malts like Vienna and Munich, and 2) differences between 2 maltsters making the same malt. IME the latter can be pretty subtle. For example I'm not too picky on which Am 2 row I get, usually what's cheap and in stock (IME Rahr is fine). Same with MO - the LHBS stocks both Crisp and Thomas Fawcett, I have a tough time telling the difference between those 2 in finished beer. A lot of it is trial and error and finding what you like, I'm sure there are those with more sophisticated palates who can really pick out the differences better than I. I do find I like the Castle/Chateau (Belgian) pilsner slightly better than Weyermann (German), but it's hard for me to put my finger on why. I'd say experiment away!

I will agree with what was stated before, I don't find adding a little munich to be at all a good sub for using a MO base. Munich has it's own maltiness which to me is very distinct, and not all all like the bready flavors of British pale malt. I also don't find Vienna to be toasty, I would agree with it being a little sweet and not bready like MO.

 

[GreenSpyder]

So I got a 55# bag of Munton's MO, that should get me started.
I found a bulk 150# Am 2 row for $117, that's a lot of cheap beer.

 

[brewcephus]

I have both Marris Otter and 2-row on hand right now, as well as 55lbs of Golden Promise since my LHBS didn't have any MO last time I went, but did have GP

Looking forward to doing some smash brews with Golden Promise.

 

[mrdauber64]

My first bulk grain buy was a bag of Canadian Pale Malt(cheapest bag at $35 and they sell it in 55 pound sacks) and Golden Promise. I prefer the sweeter taste of Golden Promise over MO for maltier beers. I've been happy with both so far! I should be able to brew everything from American cream ale, pale ales, IPA's to Porters, stouts and Barley Wines.

 

[shinobi9]

FWIW I use American 2 row as a base most often, but it's a personal preference always.
Also, storing grains in those home depot style buckets with the rubber ringed tops seems to work really well for me.

Just my .02 cents... lol

 

[GreenSpyder]

I picked up three 50 lb bags of Great Northern 2 row for $117 today, added to the 40lb (originally 50) of Maris Otter, and I have my weight in barley in my basement.

Should keep my brewing costs down.

 

[brew_ny]

2 row, pale ale, and vienna works for me

 

[jma99]

You may want to check with your local micro brewery or brewpub if bulk shipping is an issue.


Here in Duluth, Lake Superior Brewing sells 50lb sacks of Cargill 2 row, a very good quality malt. They sometimes have Canadian Pale or 2 row as well. They charge $40 a sack. Most of the "professional" brewers are using 2 row as a base and then add the MO, etc... as needed.