Berliner Weisse In 5 Weeks?

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TMannion87

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Hi all,

Is it possible to brew a decent berliner weisse in 5 weeks if kegging? I've been researching the different methods and started to get a bit confused and overwhelmed. There seems to be a lot of information on how to achieve sourness, but not a lot in regards to grain to glass times. I'd be brewing this Sunday the 24th and serving on October 4th. Is this even possible? Any input or tips would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
 
Yes, if you quick sour it at the proper temperatures you can have it sour within a few days, then ferment it like a normal beer. If you aren't doing any fruit additions, you can have it ready even sooner.
 
The brewers network did a podcast and talked about this. The guest brewer said its possible and to pitch lacto first, then the yeast then the Brett. Lacto first gets your sour up there faster.
 
I just cracked open the first bottle of my first batch of Berlinerweisse. I brewed it (started the sour mash) on July 15th. So that puts me at 2 days past the 5 week mark.

And that's with bottling. And I could've bottled sooner. I just had other batches that needed to be bottled before I could get to this one. I bet I could've easily been bottled and carbed by 4 weeks if I had stayed on top of it.

With kegging, you could easily do it quicker than that.
 
I bottled a portion of my sour mashs probably two weeks after the sour mash was complete. Which was more than it really needed. The fruited portion I let sit two weeks on fruit, i heard blueberry can taste funky if left too long. Maybe I should have fruited longer, either way I was very happy with the results. The sourmash byproducts took a bit to clean up, probably about two weeks in the bottle and from there it just got cleaner. 72 hour sour mash without fruit is tart, but not super sour, with fruit, wow, the difference in perceived acid is insane.
 
I do my Berliners in about 3 weeks grain to glass. Here's my method:


Grain Bill (5.0 gallon batch)
4 lbs crushed Wheat Malt (or 3 lbs Wheat LME)
4 lbs crushed Pilsner Malt (or 3 lbs Pils LME)
0.5 lbs UNCRUSHED extra Pilsner/Two-Row Malt for sour inoculation
Hop to taste (traditional BWs have no hops, those that do are very low IBU<10)
Liquid German Ale Yeast (traditional) or S-05 dry yeast

Procedures
1) Mash crushed malts at 146-148F for at least 20 minutes, holding back 0.5 lbs of uncrushed malt. You may find it useful to complete this step with a smaller pot at a 1.0-1.25 qt/lb grist ratio to make it easier to handle (especially BIAB brewers that would typically use full water volume).

2) After 20 minute mash, cool to 110F, add the 0.5 lbs of uncrushed malt to the mash and stir it in.

3) Cover the mash with cling wrap, etc. If possible, purge the O2 from between the grain bed and the cling wrap. Easy way to do this is take the gas disconnect off your CO2 tank, put the tube under the cling wrap, allowing space for O2 to escape, and open your CO2 tank for a couple seconds.

4) You&#8217;ll need a method to maintain the temp at about 90-120F for 2-4 days. The higher the temp in this range, the faster it will sour. A couple suggestions:

a. A 40 watt light bulb will maintain a 100-110F temp in an insulated cooler/closed fermentation chamber, or even in the oven with just the internal oven light on. Wrap the pot in a towel to help insulation.

b. Space heater in an interior closet/bathroom. Make sure you do this in a way that will be safe for 2-4 days, and not a fire hazard!

c. Keep the bottom/sides in contact with a heating pad, wrapping the pot in towels/blanket. Make sure you do this in a way that will be safe for 2-4 days, and not a fire hazard!


5) At 100F, you should get a light sour in 2 days, moderate sour in 3 days, and prominent sour in 4 days. Taste the mash in about 8 hour intervals throughout to test sour levels to your personal tastes, being careful to maintain the CO2 blanket (repeat O2 purge, if necessary). Remember that you will add water to get to your full volume, diluting the sour level, so plan accordingly.

6) Once you have your desired sour level, complete your brew day as normal. The boil will stop the souring process by killing the lactobacillus, and lock in the sour profile of the existing lactic acid.

7) Cool/Pitch/Ferment as normal.

TIPS and TRICKS

&#61607; Lactic acid is relatively dense and will screw up OG readings, so don&#8217;t worry if something seems a little off. Also, some species of lactobacillus produce alcohol, and some don&#8217;t, so there may be up to 10-15% attenuation/gravity loss during your sour mash.

&#61607; Your sour mash SHOULD smell pretty pungent. In particular, a healthy lactobacillus sour mash should smell like cooked corn.

&#61607; You WILL need to either make a proper yeast starter or pitch multiple packs for this sour beer. The saccharomyces strains in the German Ale yeast/S-05 HATE the low PH of the lactic acid, and will stall/be sluggish without a proper pitch rate. Yeast nutrient always helps as well. Also oxygenate well prior to pitching!

&#61607; A Berliner Weiss should be carbonated to 3.0-3.5 volumes CO2.

&#61607; Great with real fruit additions in secondary or with flavored syrups!
 
I fermented with s04 at like 65. It finished fine with a single packet, and only aerating with the pour itself. I have pure o2, just didn't see the point. The benefit of the s04, despite being 50% wheat, it is super clear. I know that isn't necessarily to style, but with the fruited portion it makes for an amazing pinkish red, and gorgeous light straw color on the non. Murky beer is not an issue for me, but many people trying homebrew think twice when its murky.
 
a. A 40 watt light bulb will maintain a 100-110F temp in an insulated cooler/closed fermentation chamber, or even in the oven with just the internal oven light on. Wrap the pot in a towel to help insulation.

Never thought of this. Definitely going to give it a test run.

I tried one doing this:
3.75 lbs Pilsner
3.75 lbs Wheat Malt
.5 lbs Vienna

6 gallons (4.7~ abv)

Mashed 150~ for 60 with Hatterlau and Saaz whole leaf in the tun.

Tossed .5 lbs uncrushed Pilsner into a ball lock keg and drained tun on top. Purged with CO2 sealed and left in the sun on the back porch for 6 days. At the time our day temps were ~90 and I tested a SS Growlet with water in it. The interior sits about 105 in the sun.

CAREFULLY AND NOT AT ONCE, slowly open the release valve. It has a crap ton of pressure built up. Poured it all through a strainer into the kettle, brought to boil and cut it off. Chilled, put in to fermentor. Topped off to 6 gallons due to loss from the pressure valve (about 1.5 gallons) and pitched Kolsch yeast no starter.

Cooked corn smell? oh yeah. 2 weeks in primary and back into the keg. Force carbed. Tapped 3 weeks later. Still had a good bit of corny smell, not super sour but nice light tart. Really wasn't touched at my serving party so I got left with about 3/4 a keg. After a month in the keezer, it's mellowed out and tastes quite nice to me. Still some corn/biscuit but for the first, all-natural, go at it. not bad IMO.
 
I just turned a berliner weisse around in a week and a half using the sour wort method. Mash as normal, bring to a boil, chill to 110F, put wort back into mash tun and pitch lacto. Let it sit for 3-4 days while purging the headspace with CO2 twice a day. When it gets tart enough for you, bring to a boil to kill the lacto and pitch your yeast. Came out great.
 
Others have mentioned this already, but if you sour-mash you can have a berliner done in as little as 2 weeks, and easily within 5. There are a lot of posts and articles out there on sour mashing, so I won't bother repeating too much, but here is some general advice to ensure the best product with a 5-week timeline:

1) Try to keep your sour mash at 38-41C (100-106F); at that temp the lacto will work quickly while most off-flavour producing bugs will be inhibited. At this temp, a conventional sour mash is usually complete in 2 to 4 days; faster if you pitch a culture of lacto in place of a handful of uncrushed malt. Taste the mash to see how sour it is - the mash stinks but won't hurt you. There are many ways to keep the mash warm - I start with a thick mash and add boiling water every 12 hours or so to keep the temp up; others use temperature controllers, etc, to keep it warm.

2) There are non-boil and boiled (usually 15 min) methods - both work well, but I prefer the boil method as it drives off some off flavours, making for faster turn-around.

3) Ferment with a clean yeast (US-05, WLP001, etc); it won't be as complex as one fermented with brett + bugs, but you will get a nice beer in the time frame you're looking for. Most of my quick berliners are ready for the keg 7-10 days after pitching yeast.

4) As others have said, avoid adding fruit; while awesome in a berliner, the addition of fruit greatly extends fermentation and aging time.

Basic brewing did a video on sour mashing; its a great resource for anyone trying this for the first time. Just remeber - theirs is one good method amoung many; don't be afraid to try what others have done!



Bryan
 
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I've just got my first one going now. I BIAB so I just brought the temp up to 85c then turned the gas off and covered overnight. In the morning the mash was at 34c, so I pitched wyeast lacto.

So far it's around 36hrs in the tun/keggle, and a light white film is on too and it smells sour, but not crazy. Will taste tomorrow and when sour enough I'll lift the bag, boil and go as normal then.

Excited :)
 
Are you holding that 34C temp? It is going to take something like 4-5 days to get a prominent sour if you held it at 34C/93F. If you aren't holding the temp, you will never get to a good sour. You really should be closer to 100-105F (38-41C). It takes me 3 days at about 105F to sour to my tastes. At 93F, it is going to take proportionately longer.
 
Cheers for the info mate. This morning it tastes a little sweet, but not very sour, and a little vomity haha. I'll lift the lid and check the actual temp and see.
 
Despite my heat belt it was only 26c :(. I turned the gas on and got it up to 35, then added foam insulation, hopefully the heat belt plus the insulation will keep it at 35 til tomorrow morning. I'm going away on Sunday so it needs to be boiled and cubed tomorrow. I'll know next time.
 
I recently cultured up a Berliner from uncrushed malt and while my initial starter was a citrus creamed corn, my wort souring grew pinkish peach pellicle and smelled of cherry pie. Not sure if that's Brett that tagged along or something else. I saved a sample but haven't checked yet under the microscope. Starter and wort were kept at 103F for 3 days each and oxygen was "minimized" by covering with saran wrap. Last year I tried this I got no such pellicle.
 
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