American IPA Bell's Two Hearted Ale Clone (close as they come)

[2005STi]

I brewed this beer 7 weeks ago and it's just starting to come around. It's finally getting that centennial smell and a bit of that two hearted flavor. It's still a little astringent but I think that's because my final volume was lower leaving me with more a higher OG/IBU ratio. I left it in the primary for 3 weeks, kegged and sat for a week. It tasted way off so I took it out to condition at 70deg for a week then back into the fridge for the past two weeks.

I'd be interested to brew it again and try to nail my process better and see if it makes the difference. But if this is a beer that takes 7-8 weeks to be drinking its best, I'd rather use my fermenters/kegs on beers with better turn arounds like 5-6 weeks.

 

[Nightstalker]

I have/had the same results as you 2005sti. Was not impressed and I know it was something I did. I have had it conditioning for two months and it has not gotten much better. I may give it another go but it was not the Bells I remember (not close) I tried my BIL's Dead Ringer extract and thought it was closer than what I made.

 

[lukskywok]

i tried this recipe earlier this year, im on my last bottle, gonna have to do it again =] really good beer, better than original two hearted imho =]

 

[Jhoss]

I've brewed this many times and about to do it again on Labor Day. I "get" what most are saying about this THA clone. But someone had to dump this? Yikes! Thats seems way out there for this recipe.

Some comments. I usually primary this for at least 3 weeks, 4 or 5 only better. I rack to secondary (yes, oh the humanity) and dry hop for 5 days max. 3 days on dry hops and 2 days of cold-crash is my target (give or take a day or so). Then 3 weeks at 70 in the bottle. At this time frame - your first bottle will still taste green....hot....bitter. 3 more weeks and it will be coming into it - it can't be rushed. And, it has a sweet spot, it will loose its fresh IPA "freshness" if you leave it laying around for another couple of months or so. If you hit it when it's peaked you are in for a treat. I've posted this before about some blind taste tests where every contestant picked the homebrew as 1.) the one they liked the best (easiest to drink) and 2.) they picked this homebrew as the one they thought was the commercial one. At it's peak - it's just WOW!

 

[2005STi]

^ so you're talking
1) 3-5 weeks Primary
2) 5 days dry hop/cold crash
3) 3 weeks bottle
4) 3 more weeks to be at its peak

That's 10-12 weeks. 3 months for an ipa to hit its prime is nuts. We're talking 6 weeks for conditioning?

 

[ThickHead]

^ so you're talking
1) 3-5 weeks Primary
2) 5 days dry hop/cold crash
3) 3 weeks bottle
4) 3 more weeks to be at its peak

That's 10-12 weeks. 3 months for an ipa to hit its prime is nuts. We're talking 6 weeks for conditioning?

This is not overly nuts. The single best ever rendition of this recipe that I have brewed, to date, went like this:

- 3 weeks in primary @60F
- 1 month in secondary @60F (went away for work)
- 5 day dry hop in secondary @60F
- 2 day cold crash in secondary @35F (dry hops still in)
- 3 weeks in keg @40F/12psi

That is almost 3 months. Granted, all this waiting was not necessary or even intentional in this particular case but it absolutely produced one of the finest IPAs I have ever brewed. I mean....outstanding in my opinion! It's funny what one learns under forced conditions sometimes.

 

[arborman]

Im going to to a 10 gallon batch of this on the weekend, and will split into 2 fermentors. I will do one batch all centennial dry hop, but thinking of dry hopping the second with a different hop. I really like dank! I have lots of simcoe, falconers flight and amarillo on hand... Any suggestions?

 

[solbes]

I've brewed NB Dead Ringer Ale (AG) twice and had a lot of positive comments. Used Bells yeast. They were immediately drinkable after 2-2.5 weeks of bottle conditioning and half a week in the fridge. Honestly, those were the best ones as the aroma was the highest. Took me maybe 8 weeks to consume thet batch from then on and the beer was stable, but wasn't any better than the first ones.

I did pitch a healthy amount of Bells yeast, as I always brew my house pale ale prior to this one. That and hitting the proper temps were the key for me. I think I primaried for 2 weeks, then dry hopped in primary for 4-5 days, cold crashed, and bottled.

 

[Jhoss]

^ so you're talking
1) 3-5 weeks Primary
2) 5 days dry hop/cold crash
3) 3 weeks bottle
4) 3 more weeks to be at its peak

That's 10-12 weeks. 3 months for an ipa to hit its prime is nuts. We're talking 6 weeks for conditioning?

I just want to re-iterate my experiences with this brew. I work with (3) beer snobs (myself being the fourth) - one of them German. For what it's worth, - the blind taste test rendered a unanimous verdict from all 3. The homebrew was preferred between the two and the homebrew was obviously the commercial beer in the test (wrong!). There are quicker turn-around beers to be brewed, but when you want to get your IPA on, it's a winner!

 

[DonnieZ]

Brewed this for the second time a few weeks ago. The first time I brewed this recipe, it was my first attempt at AG brewing. Didn't turn out good at all. Figured I'd take a second stab at it.

This time I Ended up missing my gravity by about 22-23 points, starting at 1.043 or so. I think I took too long draining the mash tun of both first runnings as well as the sparse run-off. Also I want to start looking at mash pH as well.

Either way, it fermented out to about 1.011 in a little over a week and a half. Cold crashed the primary and racked to secondary on Labor Day. Planning on dry hopping this beer tomorrow, but wondering if 2 Oz of Centennial pellets is too much for this small of a beer? Advice?

 

[sivdrinks]

Brewed this for the second time a few weeks ago. The first time I brewed this recipe, it was my first attempt at AG brewing. Didn't turn out good at all. Figured I'd take a second stab at it.

This time I Ended up missing my gravity by about 22-23 points, starting at 1.043 or so. I think I took too long draining the mash tun of both first runnings as well as the sparse run-off. Also I want to start looking at mash pH as well.

Either way, it fermented out to about 1.011 in a little over a week and a half. Cold crashed the primary and racked to secondary on Labor Day. Planning on dry hopping this beer tomorrow, but wondering if 2 Oz of Centennial pellets is too much for this small of a beer? Advice?

I think 2oz would be perfect, great aroma on a 4.3% session IPA.

 

[lilrokz06]

Just took my first taste off the keg. Tastes great only thing is it doesn't have much of a nose. This was my first time dry hopping in a keg. I let it sit in primary for 3 weeks than cold crashed for about 3 days. Then I racked it to my keg with 1.5oz of centennial whole hops in a mesh bag with dental floss. I let it sit on the gas for about a week and had my first taste today. After reading a couple threads the only thing I can come up with is i dry hopped it at lower temps so now its gonna take longer to get the hop aroma. Could this be the problem.

 

[solbes]

To the above thread, yes it will take longer to get the aroma from dry hopping in a chilled keg. The good news is you will almost certainly avoid any vegetal flavors from letting it sit too long with the beer (happens with room temp dry hopping). After 2-3 weeks, you should reach peak aroma. And then it should remain strong for another few weeks, which is usually long enough to kick the keg. This has been my experience with my dry hopped keg beers.

 

[lilrokz06]

To the above thread, yes it will take longer to get the aroma from dry hopping in a chilled keg. The good news is you will almost certainly avoid any vegetal flavors from letting it sit too long with the beer (happens with room temp dry hopping). After 2-3 weeks, you should reach peak aroma. And then it should remain strong for another few weeks, which is usually long enough to kick the keg. This has been my experience with my dry hopped keg beers.

Much appreciated info. Thanks

 

[lukskywok]

What do you guys mean by cold crush? This is a new term to me.

 

[2005STi]

Cold crash* means putting the Carboy into the fridge for 8 hours or so to drop all the hops and most of the yeast in suspension to clear the beer up

 

[lukskywok]

thank you

 

[idrinkstuffnthings]

Carbonator capped a bottle of this while filling keg. This beer is awsome. Great flavours and my only complaint is that I have to wait for the keg to carb now Cheers for the recipe!

 

[ifnotuthenwho]

I brewed this the weekend before last and put it in my temp controlled freezer for fermentation. This is the first beer I've done since getting the fermentation freezer. I bottle harvested the yeast from some Bell's Two Hearted bottles. I knew my pitch rate was going to be a little light, but I thought what the heck, I'll go ahead and use it. It had a couple day lag time, and then my blow off tube started burping CO2 pretty regularly. But it's been doing that for a week now. I just timed it and I'm still getting a burp every 8 seconds.

A week seems a long time for primary fermentation, so I was wondering if it is because I'm controlling fermentation at a lower temperature and the yeast is just a little slower. Or do you think it's from my pitch rate?

 

[Pelican521]

I'm planning on brewing a Partial Mash version of this (hopefully this weekend!). I looked through all 94 pages of this thread between yesterday and today and put together a PM version from various recipes that I've "frankensteined" together. I wanted to keep the grain bill down in size to about 4# since I don't have the room to go larger.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

4.75 # Light Dry Extract
2.5# 2-Row
0.5# Carapils
0.5# Munich
0.5# Crystal 20L

Mash @152 for 1 hour

1.25oz centennial 60 min
1 oz centennial 15 min
1 oz centennial 5 min
1.5 oz centennial Dry Hop

Wyeast 1272 with 2 Liter starter

 

[eodee]

I brewed this the weekend before last and put it in my temp controlled freezer for fermentation. This is the first beer I've done since getting the fermentation freezer. I bottle harvested the yeast from some Bell's Two Hearted bottles. I knew my pitch rate was going to be a little light, but I thought what the heck, I'll go ahead and use it. It had a couple day lag time, and then my blow off tube started burping CO2 pretty regularly. But it's been doing that for a week now. I just timed it and I'm still getting a burp every 8 seconds.

A week seems a long time for primary fermentation, so I was wondering if it is because I'm controlling fermentation at a lower temperature and the yeast is just a little slower. Or do you think it's from my pitch rate?

I'm in the same boat as you. I harvested some Bell's yeast back in April of this year. Two weeks ago I brewed the original 10 gallon recipe, but mashed at 152 instead of 150. I pitched using a 1.5 liter starter that was going strong for about 48 hours. I pitched 750ml into each of my 5 gallon buckets at about 64 degrees, straight off of the stir plate. Beyond slow-dripping the wort from the boil kettle to the ferm bucket, I didn't do any further aeration. I had active airlock activity the next morning. The buckets were reading about 68 F, so I bought some big trash cans, filled half-way with water, and did frequent frozen water-bottle exchanges. I was keeping the bucket reading 64-66 for about 5 days before the fermentation slowed, and I stopped chilling the water. Ambient temps were 68-70 since then. I took a sample from each bucket on day 8 and the gravity was 1.025. On day 12, the gravity was 1.013 still with some airlock activity (every 10 seconds). Now on day 16, airlock activity slowed to about every 30 seconds and I'm about to rack into secondary with a few oz of dry hops. I'll try to update with a new gravity reading soon.

To your question, I think it's probably all 3. This yeast seems to be a little slow and steady. Under pitching could contribute, I'm sure keeping the temp low further slows the ferm. Maybe that's why the original recipe calls for 4 weeks of fermentation.

 

[solbes]

Thats strange. I have used Bells yeast in 12 batches (almost 1/4 of all my combined brews). I wouldn't classify any of them as slow fermentations. Even my RIS went from 1.102 to 1.029 in six days when held between 62 & 63 for 4 days, then ramped to 66 over next 2 days. This was an entire yeast cake that was washed from a prior Porter batch though, so lots of yeast.

I would venture it is related to pitching rate. I usually do 3-4 batches in a row with Bells and have pretty healthy pitch rates. I don't think its related to low temps (unless you are below 61 or 62). Most of my fermentations start out at 63 or 64 for a few days when using Bells yeast.

 

[periwinkle1239]

I've been harvesting Bell's yeast for awhile now, I usually will go 3 or 4 generations before starting over with a new harvest. I just tried again from Amber bottles and went through my typical 'stepping up' process which has worked well in the past, but now I believe I'm having issues: my yeast starter smells like bread (it actually smells more like sourdough bread, uh oh).

Anybody have this issue? In the past, I've never really smelled my harvest-starters but for some reason felt compelled to take a big whiff and man is it strong...not yeasty like I'm used to at all...

I don't think I'm going to use it, if anything I'm going to try and re-harvest.

 

[ripley]

Thinking about brewing the OP's recipe this Sunday. Any suggestions on which yeast to use?
I don't have access to the original where I live so I can't culture it from a bottle.
I've seen people using 1056, 1272, and even 1084.

 

[solbes]

In regards to periwinkle's question. Bread smells like bread in large part because of the yeast, right? Maybe not the sourdough part though. I'd taste just a small sample to see if it's going sour.

 

[MMJfan]

Thinking about brewing the OP's recipe this Sunday. Any suggestions on which yeast to use?
I don't have access to the original where I live so I can't culture it from a bottle.
I've seen people using 1056, 1272, and even 1084.

1272 seems to be the one most people say comes closest. And there's also this:

Just for re-assurance for you guys....I have it via a great authority that 1272 is the yeast Bells uses - and I've done both, cultured Bells yeast and 1272...exactly the same - attenuate the same (down to 1011 or so)..So good on ya and relax.

I've actually brewed this beer with both and I can't tell the difference. I used to be a firm believer to use cultured Bells yeast for their clones and I've since been converted to just using 1272. It's also much less of a PITA since I'm not having to spend extra time harvesting the yeast...

 

[ripley]

Thanks MMJfan.
That's the one I was leaning towards. I hadn't heard it was the same Bells uses.

 

[Jhoss]

Because I'm a cheap b@stard, I harvest, make starters, reuse as much as I can. I think I paid 7 or 8 bucks for the 1272 originally. May as well cut that cost out of the equation with a little work on my part.

 

[periwinkle1239]

In regards to periwinkle's question. Bread smells like bread in large part because of the yeast, right? Maybe not the sourdough part though. I'd taste just a small sample to see if it's going sour.

This is interesting. Since I posted my issue yesterday, the starter has taken off even more. It is still going. I took a sample and the breadyness has mellowed but is still there. Both SWMBO and I didn't think it tasted sour, but yeasty and bready. Still sweet, which I would think it is fermenting slow. Don't know how well I trust my tastebuds.

Here is the picture, I think the krausen has peaked.

The bells amber I used to harvest were bottled late July - I wonder if it's possible the yeast trub had died altogether, or is it possible that bells is using a bottling yeast now which is not their house strain???

RDWHAHB - don't mind if I do.

 

[mtnagel]

Funny, I'm stepping up the Bell's yeast. I'm on my third step going from about 400 ml to about 1000 ml (plus around 700 ml from the previous steps). It's been two days now and the krausen hasn't gone down yet. Never seen that before in a starter or the Conan yeast I harvested. I have time, so I'll just let it go and wait till it comes down and then will refrigerate/decant before moving onto the last 1700 ml step. I was hoping to brew this next Sunday, but if I'm delayed, no big deal.

 

[solbes]

I don't think Bells has switched yeast, or at least I would be surprised if they do. The yeast culturing is popular enough they may actually see a drop in sales if they did, and I don't see how they lose anything by keeping it the way it is.

I consider it a bonus when I try a new variety of Bells that I will also get yeast for my next 3-4 batches from it. I can honestly say it affects my decision to buy it.

 

[mtnagel]

Funny, I'm stepping up the Bell's yeast. I'm on my third step going from about 400 ml to about 1000 ml (plus around 700 ml from the previous steps). It's been two days now and the krausen hasn't gone down yet. Never seen that before in a starter or the Conan yeast I harvested. I have time, so I'll just let it go and wait till it comes down and then will refrigerate/decant before moving onto the last 1700 ml step. I was hoping to brew this next Sunday, but if I'm delayed, no big deal.

I turned up the stir plate a bit and it seems to be dropping now. I'll probably refrigerate tonight for 2 days and then move on to my last step. Then I can brew with it and have enough extra to save for subsequent batches.

 

[periwinkle1239]

I turned up the stir plate a bit and it seems to be dropping now. I'll probably refrigerate tonight for 2 days and then move on to my last step. Then I can brew with it and have enough extra to save for subsequent batches.

My krausen was quite large for awhile, now has dropped but is still there, so don't know if it has completely fermented yet. Was hoping to place in fridge tonight, but probably need to have all the krausen drop out, I would assume?

 

[mtnagel]

For maximum yeast growth you should wait until fermentation is complete. You could always take a gravity reading if you are really concerned or just give it another day.

 

[mtnagel]

So mine final step from 1L to a little 2L (1.7L wort; 300-400 ml slurry) overflowed my 2L erlenmeyer flask. So 2L of a starter in a 2L flask is a bad idea, who knew? Actually I've done it before without issue, but the krausen was bigger on this one so it overflowed a bit. I was prepared though and had the flask in a 2 gallon bucket on top of my stir plate, so no harm done. When done I'll refrigerate and I plan to brew this this weekend.

 

[MMJfan]

I'm just curious to know how much Centennial people are using for the dry hop? The OP's recipe calls for just a 1/2 oz and I've seen some recipes call for 1 oz and I've also seen some call for 2 oz. What seems to be the accepted amount?

I'm brewing up a batch using the recipe on the first page this weekend. I'm going to be using wyeast 1272 as my last attempt at brewing this over a month ago I harvested yeast from Bells Oberon and the starter got infected and I had to dump all of my bottles (first infection and first dump ). So, I'm just going to skip the harvesting step to avoid an extra step where I could get an infection and from what I've heard, 1272 is as close as it gets anyways.

 

[wobrien]

I'm just curious to know how much Centennial people are using for the dry hop? The OP's recipe calls for just a 1/2 oz and I've seen some recipes call for 1 oz and I've also seen some call for 2 oz. What seems to be the accepted amount?

I'm brewing up a batch using the recipe on the first page this weekend. I'm going to be using wyeast 1272 as my last attempt at brewing this over a month ago I harvested yeast from Bells Oberon and the starter got infected and I had to dump all of my bottles (first infection and first dump ). So, I'm just going to skip the harvesting step to avoid an extra step where I could get an infection and from what I've heard, 1272 is as close as it gets anyways.

I've done 1.5 oz pellets in the keg with great results.

 

[MMJfan]

I've done 1.5 oz pellets in the keg with great results.

Happy medium sounds good to me!

 

[eodee]

I'm just curious to know how much Centennial people are using for the dry hop? The OP's recipe calls for just a 1/2 oz and I've seen some recipes call for 1 oz and I've also seen some call for 2 oz. What seems to be the accepted amount?

I struggled with how much to dry hop as well. The Zymurgy recipe (link) calls for 3.5 oz, but OP's recipe calls for 0.5 oz. I went with 3 oz in each of my 5 gal buckets.

----------------------------------

I just did a side-by-side sample last night for the first time. The color is just slightly darker, but I think this is because my clone is slightly less clear, so maybe less light gets through. The nose is a bit different. The Bell's is more floral, almost rosy to me. My clone smells more of sweet hops, but my beer is also quite a bit fresher than the Bell's. Taste, The malt backbone is pretty spot-on, as is bitterness. I taste a bit more grassy hop flavor in my beer, but I think that's just because it is so young. Mouthfeel is a bit off. I don't think my beer is fully carbed up yet as it was on gas for just a week.

Overall, I'm very satisfied. This was my 4th or 5th batch overall. The beer impressed at a local homebrew club meeting, which pleased me!

 

[one-L]

I have dry hopped with 2 oz in the keg on several batches of this now and it seems like a pretty good sweet spot. Just bought another lb of Centennial and I think this is going to be one of the next ones on the rebrew list.