Beginning brewers - You can start with all grain

[anotherbeerplease]

I am just suggesting that any brand new brewer might be able to happily start with all grain if they desire. There isn't much difference between that and extract, one is not necessarily easier than the other, there are just different steps involved in each. I get sick of the idea of all grain requiring more experience or expertise vs extract because they both produce excellent beers and it's really a matter of how many hours out of your day do you want to spend brewing?! But I suggest that anyone who is able to extract brew is also entirely capable of all grain brewing if they are willing to spend the extra time that the process demands.

 

[TandemTails]

I feel like it's more about upfront equipment cost. extract doesn't require a mash tun or worrying about hitting mash temperatures.

That being said, I think BIAB is a very doable first brew method. That's how I started but quickly moved away from BIAB and got an igloo cooler mash tun.

 

[Genuine]

After my first extract brew day, I jumped feet first into all grain. I made a cheap cooler Mashtun and scored a keggle on Craigslist. I already had a turkey fryer so that turned into my heat source. I brewed that way for years till I wanted a quicker brew day. I still like to brew all grain kits and have an issue with paying for my an extract version.

EDIT:

I also wanted to note that I watched a ton of homebrewing videos and that's where I learned a bunch. I remember when I started, I didn't use any brewing software besides the Brew365 Mash and sparge calculator.

 

[UncleAvis]

I agree that it's not much more difficult. There is more equipment so more up front cost. However, I think encouraging people to start with extract is beneficial for most people and for the homebrewing community as a whole. Thinking back to my first brews and how hectic the brew days were even with extract. Sometimes taking 3-4 hours and feeling like you screwed everything up and have more questions then answers. Have that same day with all grain and you could be looking at a 8 or 9 hour frustrating brew session. That would wear out a newbie quick and all their shiny new equipment would be posted on craigslist. One less homebrewers. The more homebrewers there are the more demand there is and then more resources for everyone. I may be more scatterbrained and disorganized than some folks but I think this scenario already plays out pretty often even with extract. Get people a few drinkable beers under their belts and before you know it their looking at keezers and conicals and we get a homebrew shop in every town.

 

[anotherbeerplease]

Thanks for the feedback. Good points all around. I always had more fun, and more appreciation for the brew by doing the mash myself rather than the extract way. But I do see how the time and cost savings would be better for a first time brewer. I just get tired of the idea that AG is somehow harder or requires experience... it is just a matter of preference IMHO.

 

[BeerBrewerTrain]

If your going into brewing cold turkey you'll need to spend quite a few hrs reading and doing abit of research but between this site https://byo.com/ and youtube anyone could gain entry level brewing knowledge and start with all grain mashes.

 

[Velnerj]

I started AG right away, in fact, I've never done an extract batch. I read about 4 books cover to cover, watched endless videos and read many discussion threads before I brewed my first batch.

I created my own mash tun from a cooler and I really don't think the extra cost is something to shy away from. Also the added equipment isn't such a problem either because if brewing doesn't work out you still have a drink cooler with a great ball valve on it...

As far as it being too complicated, if mashing is too complicated for you, you might want to read more and study more before you jump in.

The extra time is understandable. Mashing and sparging can add up to 3 hours of your time. But if time is a rare commodity for you perhaps brewing isn't for you...

 

[RPh_Guy]

+1
I started with all grain. No regrets.

 

[mongoose33]

I would never suggest a new brewer start with all grain. The more moving parts you have, the more variables, the more that can go wrong. And when something doesn't turn out right, how do you isolate the problem?

On top of that, you need to understand how water influences the mash.

No sir--start with extract, learn the boil forward, then think about all grain.

*********

I taught a newbie how to brew all-grain--but I made virtually every decision for him at the outset. He didn't have to worry about his crush, the gap on his mill, the temp of the mash, how to get that temp right with the thermal mass of the grain and mash tun fighting against temperature, how much water, what water amendments he should have made, none of that kind of thing--to say nothing about being concerned with pH.

He "helped" me do a brew of a recipe he wanted to try, but in truth, I was the one who brewed it. Then we had a second brew day, this time on his equipment, I'd approved the crush of the grain, told him the water he should use and how to dose it with salts, and kibbitzed while he did the whole thing.

Then the third time he did it in my absence, though I had several texts and one phone call during it to resolve issues he'd had. But again, I'd set up the water for him.

This is the only way I can think of for a newbie to start off with all-grain, and have a reasonable expectation of success.

*********

Yeah, some people started with all-grain and they were apparently successful. I'd say they got lucky unless they had a mentor (as I was for my friend), are a chemist, or got very lucky with their water.

IMO, most people who say "I had no problem" aren't accounting for differences in locations as to temp, water, quality of ingredients, etc.

*********

My suggestion to new brewers: Do 2 or 3 extract batches. Learn how to manage the boil, hop additions, chilling, racking to fermenter, oxygenating the wort (shake it), pitching the yeast, trying to control ferm temp.

Then bottling. After getting a handle on the boil forward, then go backwards to the mash and learn how to do that.

 

[VTX1300]

I too wanted to.start AG. I already had an 8 gallon stainless turkey fryer pot and a 10 Igloo cooler from our camping days so the equipment cost issue was minimal. I Read Palmers book cover to cover 3 times and watched many YouTube videos and read many discussions here before I started building my system. I sent a lot of time writing out a brew day plan to follow so I didn't forget anything. Did a dry run using just water to practice heating the water and moving water through the process. That helped a lot on my first brew day. 18 months and 27 batches later and I am still learning and refining my process.
I see nothing wrong with extract brewing. I have friends that do and they make great beer. This is just the way I wanted to brew.

 

[Murphys_Law]

I started with partial mash which is a good bridge, I believe. After about 4 brews I went to BIAB and had zero trouble making that transition since they are essentially the same “moving parts”. From there I started to pay attention to water, learn more about temps (through the entire process), etc.

For me I liked working on my process before starting to turn all the knobs at once.

 

[Jayjay1976]

+1!!

I started with a 1 gallon AG kit last October and immediately began building my electric BIAB rig. When it was completed I bought a 55lb sack of German pils. I'm on my 26th batch/5th sack of base malt so far this year and the only DME I've ever used was for making yeast starters. IMHO, AG brewing on an elec BIAB and buying grains/hops in bulk is the most cost efficient way to start out and will save money in the long run. Imagine only buying equipment once vs. upgrading to larger kettle, etc., and the cost savings in buying ingredients in bulk vs. buying kits and using cheap, reliable electricity over expensive propane add up to huge savings over time.

Anyone who says you need to start out brewing with extract is wrong. That's like saying you need to bake a bunch of betty crocker box mixes before you can handle baking a cake from scratch; it's not any harder, there are just different steps involved.

 

[specharka]

I really regret starting with extract. I didn’t enjoy drinking either of my two extract batches, and as soon as I made my first AG batch I knew it was worth the leap. The only reason I didn’t take the plunge initially is my LHBS owner (now out-of-business) didn’t know anything about all grain brewing and couldn’t offer any advice.

All grain brewing is not difficult and doesn’t necessitate much more of a startup investment than extract. BIAB is simple and produces excellent results — just look at this year’s NHC winners.

 

[dstockwell]

Started with BIAB, never tried any other method, no regrets.

 

[North_of_60]

My first brew was an extract kit I got for Christmas 4 years ago. My second was an extract recipe that turned out ok. Then I heard about BIAB and haven't looked back.

 

[Jayjay1976]

If not for the invention of BIAB, I wouldn't brew at all due to space constraints and the necessity to brew indoors. No, I wouldn't brew extracts on the stovetop, I would rather spend my spare time reading brewing books and HBT, dreaming of the day I would have the space and money for a 3-vessel setup. Instead I'm past 2 dozen batches and having a great time, and my wife hardly notices the little bit it costs to keep brewing. I love my rig so much you couldn't give me a traditional setup. If you did, I would sell it and build a keezer

In summary: All-grain + Electric BIAB + Bulk ingredients = A Mash Made in Heaven

 

[Ninoid]

In my country the extract is eight times more expensive than malt so I had no choice but to work All-grain. I'm working BIAB in a plastic pot of 35L that I installed a heater from an electric kettle of 2000W.

 

[MrPowers]

I absolutely agree that new brewers can start with all grain. I took a class at my LHBS, now closed, to learn how to BIAB. I had equipment bought for my own BIAB setup before I even tasted how the beer turned out.

I’ve since moved to a three vessel system, but i’m very glad I started there. It wasn’t cost prohibitive for a bayou classic kettle, turkey burner, and BIAB bag.

Prior to brewing, I was very into cooking, so I knew I would want to have full creative control over the process. I did brew proven recipes first, but it didn’t take long to start developing my own. All the information you could possibly need to start is out there, you just need to search for it.

 

[VTX1300]

Mongoose33, while I agree MOST should start extract, I and some others enjoy the challenge of going all grain to start. My LHBS guy said I was probably only the second person he knew that planned on going all grain as their first brew. I have always been a "go big or go home" sort of guy. I have been an industrial maintenance mechanic all of my life and enjoy a challenge. Tinkering with stuff is what I do. I spent two months doing research on the entire process (just ask my wonderful wife. I got into this hobby with her encouragement) before I made any equipment purchase and felt comfortable with doing it that way. I have never known another home brewer, so I didn't have the opportunity to watch a brew day before I did my first brew. Never had a mentor to teach me other than the wonderful people here. You can go all grain as your first brew, it just takes more planning and education to get it right. I am happy to say every one of my beers have been good if not excellent. I have a group that call themselves my Beer test dummies. These guys are all very into craft beer and give honest criticism that helps me to continue to improve. My advice to any new brewer is do what you are comfortable with. Extract, partial mash or all grain , it's up to you to decide what you are comfortable with, as long as you have fun, THAT is what is important.

 

[GPP33]

Yeah, some people started with all-grain and they were apparently successful. I'd say they got lucky unless they had a mentor (as I was for my friend), are a chemist, or got very lucky with their water.

Being successful on an all grain batch isn’t being “lucky”. You may be “unlucky” and have really bad water but I think most people have water that’s just fine for brewing most styles. Beyond that there’s literally two additional steps that are pretty simple to grasp and the software that’s available will get you pretty close on grain absorption and boil off rates. I’m not saying it’s easy to make great beer but I am saying it’s easy to make good beer if you put forth a little effort and do some research.

 

[mongoose33]

Being successful on an all grain batch isn’t being “lucky”. You may be “unlucky” and have really bad water but I think most people have water that’s just fine for brewing most styles. Beyond that there’s literally two additional steps that are pretty simple to grasp and the software that’s available will get you pretty close on grain absorption and boil off rates. I’m not saying it’s easy to make great beer but I am saying it’s easy to make good beer if you put forth a little effort and do some research.

We're going to have to disagree on this. If you don't know anything about water, being successful on an all-grain batch is absolutely luck.

I live 25 minutes from Dubuque IA. They draw their water from the Mississippi, it's fairly soft, and by all accounts it's excellent brewing water for many/most styles. Where I live, we draw our water from 1100 feet down. It's very alkaline (it's a limestone formation), and it's suitable for brewing a stout; anything else, you're cutting it with acid or RO water.

I've seen people say "water doesn't matter," and in their case, it is simply luck their water works for what they want to do. It seems odd to me that anyone would want to brew all-grain without accounting for the water. I don't know what your background is, but I found water difficult to master. If you have no chemistry background, you're going to have to learn some, or learn to trust a water spreadsheet like Brunwater.

So. You can say success isn't due to luck. I'd say the evidence is that success is exactly that--lucky. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I am just suggesting that any brand new brewer might be able to happily start with all grain if they desire.

Agreed - I can see at least one "simplified" approach to "all-grain" brewing that could be reduced to a set of instructions (similar to chapter 1 of "How to Brew", 4e).

There isn't much difference between that and extract, one is not necessarily easier than the other, there are just different steps involved in each.

Agreed - The additional step, with BIAB, would be to soak a bunch of malts in a bunch of mineral free water for a bunch of time at a bunch of degrees F with a bunch of brewing salts. Early in learning how to brew, one would need to "trust" the ingredients (including the brewing salts) included in the recipe while getting comfortable with the process. And with mineral-free (or low mineral) water, initial approaches to water chemistry don't need to be complicated. (Aside: if one wants to brew with their tap water, perhaps because one can't or won't obtain mineral-free or low mineral water, then approaches to water chemistry will likely be complicated, involve lots of chemistry, and probably a spreadsheet).

I get sick of the idea of all grain requiring more experience or expertise vs extract because they both produce excellent beers and it's really a matter of how many hours out of your day do you want to spend brewing?!

Agreed - I can brew either extract or all-grain and get the results that I want. What has been fun for me recently is brewing a small extract based recipe in the "idle time" of an all-grain batch. Two different batches in 3-4 hours.

But I suggest that anyone who is able to extract brew is also entirely capable of all grain brewing if they are willing to spend the extra time that the process demands

Agreed. The only thing that appears to be missing is a well written article, like chapter 1 of How To Brew, 4e, which describes how to do it.

 

[specharka]

We're going to have to disagree on this. If you don't know anything about water, being successful on an all-grain batch is absolutely luck.

I live 25 minutes from Dubuque IA. They draw their water from the Mississippi, it's fairly soft, and by all accounts it's excellent brewing water for many/most styles. Where I live, we draw our water from 1100 feet down. It's very alkaline (it's a limestone formation), and it's suitable for brewing a stout; anything else, you're cutting it with acid or RO water.

I've seen people say "water doesn't matter," and in their case, it is simply luck their water works for what they want to do. It seems odd to me that anyone would want to brew all-grain without accounting for the water. I don't know what your background is, but I found water difficult to master. If you have no chemistry background, you're going to have to learn some, or learn to trust a water spreadsheet like Brunwater.

So. You can say success isn't due to luck. I'd say the evidence is that success is exactly that--lucky. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I’ve found that most municipal water sources are acceptable for brewing, though I’ve only lived in northeast and mountain regions which have predominantly soft water. I can imagine that it’s more difficult for individuals in rural and southern areas to brew with the water they have — I’ve had restaurant tap water from rural Georgia that was absolutely revolting.

I can make excellent amber and brown ales without any water modifications. Additionally, I can make a passable (albeit dull) pale and dark ales without modifying my brewing water.

 

[GPP33]

We're going to have to disagree on this. If you don't know anything about water, being successful on an all-grain batch is absolutely luck.

I live 25 minutes from Dubuque IA. They draw their water from the Mississippi, it's fairly soft, and by all accounts it's excellent brewing water for many/most styles. Where I live, we draw our water from 1100 feet down. It's very alkaline (it's a limestone formation), and it's suitable for brewing a stout; anything else, you're cutting it with acid or RO water.

I've seen people say "water doesn't matter," and in their case, it is simply luck their water works for what they want to do. It seems odd to me that anyone would want to brew all-grain without accounting for the water. I don't know what your background is, but I found water difficult to master. If you have no chemistry background, you're going to have to learn some, or learn to trust a water spreadsheet like Brunwater.

So. You can say success isn't due to luck. I'd say the evidence is that success is exactly that--lucky. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Sure, you can look at it as lucky to have good water. Since I think most people have decent water for brewing (after they remove chlorine), as specharka pointed out, it's likely that some people just get unlucky. Semantics I guess, but I think most people would be lucky in this department by your definition. For those people water chemistry doesn't come into play until they want to make the leap from good to great beers of all styles. It'd be interesting to know how many of us actually build water profiles vs use what we have.

 

[Home_alone1]

My first batch was an all grain Hefeweizen, 10 gallons. I had been watching that beer and bbq channel by Larry on YouTube for a while and I saw an add for 20 percent off at Northern brewer I jumped on a 10 gallon starter system .

 

[Velnerj]

My first batch was an all grain Hefeweizen, 10 gallons. I had been watching that beer and bbq channel by Larry on YouTube for a while and I saw an add for 20 percent off at Northern brewer I jumped on a 10 gallon starter system .

+1 for Beer and BBQ by Larry. I use his spreadsheet for every brew day.

 

[davidabcd]

You can skip extract and start with all grain, I guess, but why would you want to before you know you're going to keep doing it or get really into it?
Extract is much easier.
Everyone has different expectations and goals with their beer. I love that people do AG and love doing it, but it sounds like here, because someone really likes AG, everyone should do it and it's the only way. I want to know, how is telling someone, "Extract is easier so give that a shot first and if you dig that, there are more advanced options," not true or logical?
The learning curve exists and is far from flat. The extract-skippers above said as much with the amount of mental prep that went into AG brewing before starting. Being well-prepared is commendable but also necessary if you're going to do a solid AG out of the gate, again, based on some of the comments.
You need some guidance with extract but you can do a decent job right from the start and have your beer where you want it by the third or fourth batch, from experience. I don't see many AG brewers stating that. I'm sure they exist, but I read these forums and I see what I see.
I think extract brewing should be encouraged and not discouraged. It is misleading to compare them as being nearly equal to a new brewer.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I love that people do AG and love doing it

Agreed. I also find it enjoyable to read of people talking passionately about their successes.

The learning curve exists and is far from flat. The extract-skippers above said as much with the amount of mental prep that went into AG brewing before starting. Being well-prepared is commendable but also necessary if you're going to do a solid AG out of the gate, again, based on some of the comments.

The learning curve for starting from scratch can often be long. But it doesn't have to be.

As I mentioned earlier, with a couple of decisions, it seems reasonable to extend chapter 1 of How To Brew, 4e, to start homebrewing using BAIB and proper water treatments.

At that point, starting with BIAB becomes "just follow the instructions".

I think extract brewing should be encouraged and not discouraged.

I'll settle for people talking about what they enjoy and not disparage what didn't work for them.

 

[Soulshine2]

I would never suggest a new brewer start with all grain. The more moving parts you have, the more variables, the more that can go wrong. And when something doesn't turn out right, how do you isolate the problem?

On top of that, you need to understand how water influences the mash.

No sir--start with extract, learn the boil forward, then think about all grain.

*********

I taught a newbie how to brew all-grain--but I made virtually every decision for him at the outset. He didn't have to worry about his crush, the gap on his mill, the temp of the mash, how to get that temp right with the thermal mass of the grain and mash tun fighting against temperature, how much water, what water amendments he should have made, none of that kind of thing--to say nothing about being concerned with pH.

He "helped" me do a brew of a recipe he wanted to try, but in truth, I was the one who brewed it. Then we had a second brew day, this time on his equipment, I'd approved the crush of the grain, told him the water he should use and how to dose it with salts, and kibbitzed while he did the whole thing.

Then the third time he did it in my absence, though I had several texts and one phone call during it to resolve issues he'd had. But again, I'd set up the water for him.

This is the only way I can think of for a newbie to start off with all-grain, and have a reasonable expectation of success.

*********


*********

My suggestion to new brewers: Do 2 or 3 extract batches. Learn how to manage the boil, hop additions, chilling, racking to fermenter, oxygenating the wort (shake it), pitching the yeast, trying to control ferm temp.

Then bottling. After getting a handle on the boil forward, then go backwards to the mash and learn how to do that.

It all depends on the person. We're not all the same or have the same skills or bravery to jump into a hobby such as this. I did a couple extract brews my first time and I felt like I was making a can of Campbells condensed soup. Open the can , add hot water. The beer turned out ,just kind of blah. Think of it like making spaghetti . Your first time you buy a jar of Ragu sauce (LME)and boil water for the boxed noodles (strike water) and heat up the whole mess. Its spaghetti ,right? OR you can buy tomatoes and peppers(milled Barley and flaked Wheat) ,garlic and basil and oregano(hops) maybe get creative and toss in some mushrooms(orange peel, coriander,etc)and let it simmer (60-90 min boil)THEN, its YOUR spaghetti...back to beer now. when you're done its more yours than if you used an extract kit ,you get to appreciate the work you put into it and you have a better understanding on the ingredients that went into making it and why the amounts were what they are.
IF you are a handy-figure-it-out-inquisitive type of person(which if you're reading in this forum ,you are ),you can do all grain on your first brew. After all , its another level of cooking and science thrown together. Just order a starter brewing kit . Prices arent that bad and if you like it you can expand it or if not you can always find someone who will buy it from you, and a pre-measured AG kit with written instructions , test your tap water or go buy some RO . Buy a book on it, read up. Know WHY you have to -boil for X amount, know about hot break, know about different yeasts for the types of beers and fermentation temps and time that go with them. How hard is it to heat water to 165*F or boil, how hard is it to measure ingredients, how hard is it to watch a clock and figure out when to add hops. The hardest part might be the wort cooling . I mean you can struggle with risk of burning yourself badly with 6 gallons of hot liquid and try the ice water bath or take the safer step to the coil chiller. then again, read a thermometer , rack and pitch yeast...wait,sanitize and bottle,wait. DRINK !. I wouldnt discourage anyone from trying AG on their first brew. PROST !

 

[davidabcd]

This has been an excellent discussion.

The principal argument/point: "There isn't much difference between that [AG] and extract, one is not necessarily easier than the other, there are just different steps involved in each. I get sick of the idea of all grain requiring more experience or expertise vs extract because they both produce excellent beers and it's really a matter of how many hours out of your day do you want to spend brewing?! But I suggest that anyone who is able to extract brew is also entirely capable of all grain brewing if they are willing to spend the extra time that the process demands."
[bold added]

Posters have been indirectly pointing out that AG (not BIAB which is an intermediate step) requires more to start whether it's information, equipment or time. It just does.

I'm glad people get to choose how they begin brewing and that's exactly how it should be, but this thread is not about choosing. It's about whether the two methods require the same skill from the get-go and they do not. It would be inaccurate to say that they do.
Whose beer would be better, on average, with two identical brewers brewing their very first time and allowed, say, two hours of study? Forget about equipment for the moment.
This clearly points out the difference in skill level required.
Allowed to prepare endlessly, I will concede, greatly reduces the gap.

 

[davidabcd]

As far as extract beer being less mine because I bought extract instead of 12 pounds of grain, would it also be accurate to say AG brewers who don't cultivate yeast from scratch; plow, plant, grow and kiln barley; have their own hop farm; gather water from their own stream; build their own fire for brewing, etc., are not really experiencing what it is truly like to make their own beer?
It is never black and white. It's all about the degrees.

 

[mongoose33]

It all depends on the person. We're not all the same or have the same skills or bravery to jump into a hobby such as this. I did a couple extract brews my first time and I felt like I was making a can of Campbells condensed soup. Open the can , add hot water. The beer turned out ,just kind of blah. Think of it like making spaghetti . Your first time you buy a jar of Ragu sauce (LME)and boil water for the boxed noodles (strike water) and heat up the whole mess. Its spaghetti ,right? OR you can buy tomatoes and peppers(milled Barley and flaked Wheat) ,garlic and basil and oregano(hops) maybe get creative and toss in some mushrooms(orange peel, coriander,etc)and let it simmer (60-90 min boil)THEN, its YOUR spaghetti...back to beer now. when you're done its more yours than if you used an extract kit ,you get to appreciate the work you put into it and you have a better understanding on the ingredients that went into making it and why the amounts were what they are.
IF you are a handy-figure-it-out-inquisitive type of person(which if you're reading in this forum ,you are ),you can do all grain on your first brew. After all , its another level of cooking and science thrown together. Just order a starter brewing kit . Prices arent that bad and if you like it you can expand it or if not you can always find someone who will buy it from you, and a pre-measured AG kit with written instructions , test your tap water or go buy some RO . Buy a book on it, read up. Know WHY you have to -boil for X amount, know about hot break, know about different yeasts for the types of beers and fermentation temps and time that go with them. How hard is it to heat water to 165*F or boil, how hard is it to measure ingredients, how hard is it to watch a clock and figure out when to add hops. The hardest part might be the wort cooling . I mean you can struggle with risk of burning yourself badly with 6 gallons of hot liquid and try the ice water bath or take the safer step to the coil chiller. then again, read a thermometer , rack and pitch yeast...wait,sanitize and bottle,wait. DRINK !. I wouldnt discourage anyone from trying AG on their first brew. PROST !

It's not a question as to whether it *can* be done. It can. It's a question of whether it's the way to bet.

IMO, it's not the way to bet. You'll see people--in this thread even--say they started with all-grain as if anyone else starting brings to the table the exact same knowledge, equipment, and resources (including water) that they did.

Of course, they don't. Anyone who says "I did it, so can you" is assuming an awful lot.

*******

New brewers can do what they want. If they think it's worth having all those moving parts on their first brew, and they want to take a shot, go ahead. It's their choice, their life.

But if they want the maximum chance of a good first brew, IMO the fewer moving parts, the better.

 

[Jayjay1976]

...IMO the fewer moving parts, the better.

Then why not start with a hopped can kit?

Or maybe Wyeast could adapt their smack pack to make a smackable ready-brewed wort that ferments under pressure; 2 weeks later you have a capri sun pouch of finished, carbonated beer ready to enjoy.

Or why not buy a frozen can of hopped, pitched wort concentrate that just needs to be thawed out and diluted to desired OG in a brew bucket?

Or why not just pick up a sixer of NEIPA and call it a day??

If the entire brewing process were represented by a living, breathing human body, the heart must lie somewhere within it, and I contend that the heart is located in the mash tun.

 

[mongoose33]

Then why not start with a hopped can kit?

Seriously? Ick.

Or maybe Wyeast could adapt their smack pack to make a smackable ready-brewed wort that ferments under pressure; 2 weeks later you have a capri sun pouch of finished, carbonated beer ready to enjoy.

Or why not buy a frozen can of hopped, pitched wort concentrate that just needs to be thawed out and diluted to desired OG in a brew bucket?

Or why not just pick up a sixer of NEIPA and call it a day??

If the entire brewing process were represented by a living, breathing human body, the heart must lie somewhere within it, and I contend that the heart is located in the mash tun.

I stand by what I said; by implication your argument is we should make things as complicated as possible.

But then again, you like to argue just to argue. Too bad. It would be better if you listened to the content of others' ideas and cogitated on them just a bit.

I do all-grain because, apparently like you, I think that's where the best part of brewing comes from. But if you're trying to help a BRAND NEW BREWER learn the system AND BE SUCCESSFUL from the get-go, complicating things is not the recipe for success.

I'm an educator, and I have just a little experience in teaching newbies difficult things, like reloading, casting bullets, powdercoating bullets, and even brewing. There is a pace at which you want to expose newbies to new ideas, unless you want to overwhelm them. I prefer they be successful rather than fast.

You may have different goals in your teaching, and that's fine.

 

[Jako]

BIAB like others said. trying to get my friend to try all grain i even said he could use my mash tun. the only down side to BIAB is lifting the grains out i am young but i have a bunk back so i always took a hit in my back.

 

[Velnerj]

BIAB like others said. trying to get my friend to try all grain i even said he could use my mash tun. the only down side to BIAB is lifting the grains out i am young but i have a bunk back so i always took a hit in my back.

This is exactly why I didn't go BIAB. I didn't trust myself to pull out 20kg of hot grains without injuring myself or making a giant disaster. I'm still not sure how people do it without a pulley system... I went with a dyi bazooka strainer and an igloo cooler. Zero regrets.

 

[Jayjay1976]

...But then again, you like to argue just to argue.

Nuh uh!

 

[Jayjay1976]

BIAB like others said. trying to get my friend to try all grain i even said he could use my mash tun. the only down side to BIAB is lifting the grains out i am young but i have a bunk back so i always took a hit in my back.

This is exactly why I didn't go BIAB. I didn't trust myself to pull out 20kg of hot grains without injuring myself or making a giant disaster. I'm still not sure how people do it without a pulley system... I went with a dyi bazooka strainer and an igloo cooler. Zero regrets.

Get yourself a Wilser bag and one of his pulley setups and problem solved. It's inexpensive and works great! My brew stand has a gantry arm overhead that I made out of cast iron pipe that the pulley clips to, it cost maybe $15 and it is steady as a rock. This setup takes all the work and danger out of hoisting the grain bag.

I raise the bag and let it drip while it's ramping up to boil; just when it starts to simmer I squeeze the bag between two metal pot lids to get the last bit out then swing the bag over to the side and lower it into a bucket. By the time I'm cleaning up, the bag is plenty cool to dump out the spent grain.

 

[Jako]

I feel like it's more about upfront equipment cost. extract doesn't require a mash tun or worrying about hitting mash temperatures.

That being said, I think BIAB is a very doable first brew method. That's how I started but quickly moved away from BIAB and got an igloo cooler mash tun.

this is what i did. i did two batches of extract and started BIAB i did 3 or 4 batches of BIAB then made a cooler mash tun. i recently upgraded to a false bottom, the cooler is great for winter brewing i love being outside.

 

[Jako]

Get yourself a Wilser bag and one of his pulley setups and problem solved. It's inexpensive and works great! My brew stand has a gantry arm overhead that I made out of cast iron pipe that the pulley clips to, it cost maybe $15 and it is steady as a rock. This setup takes all the work and danger out of hoisting the grain bag.

I raise the bag and let it drip while it's ramping up to boil; just when it starts to simmer I squeeze the bag between two metal pot lids to get the last bit out then swing the bag over to the side and lower it into a bucket. By the time I'm cleaning up, the bag is plenty cool to dump out the spent grain.

some good advice. i never had a stand while i was doing BIAB i was inside on my stove. now i brew outside and still don't have a stand but if i was still doing BIAB i would be doing this.