Beginner to beer brewing at home [initial questions]

[tim_s]

Hi Everyone,

I hope all is well and everyone is enjoying their beer brewing.

Today I went to a local “microbrewery” specific beer store to investigate new local flavours and while talking to the owner, who was bragging about home brewing, I felt as a beer lover it is worth trying out. I would not say that these types of hobbies are out of character for me, however, I have *never* brewed something before.

Does anyone have a good guide that has worked well for them?
What equipment would I need? - the basic guide only shows iodine + fermenter + ingredients.
Is it an expensive hobby?

I am hoping to generate some discussion with people to get some insight to make a “plan” before trying my first brew. (being prepared.)

 

[ElJefeBrews]

My biggest advice would be to start simple. Start doing extract, you don't need much equipment for that and is a lot simple than all grain so you can start to learn the basics. Now you just need to decide what size batches you wanna do

 

[Kharnynb]

start simple, but try to buy a starter package, usually the second cheapest is the best to aim for, and don't be fooled by the 1 gallon sets, they tend to less useful if you plan on continuing.(around 80 dollar kit should get you all you need without having to go back immediately for the usefull extra's)

 

[EJay]

I respectfully disagree with both the above posters. Go 1 gallon (to keep it cheap) and all-grain BIAB. Skip extract entirely. Midwest Supply's "Micro Bru" setup is what i started with and couldn't be happier. Brooklyn Brew Shop is another good outfit. This setup is inexpensive and makes great beer with things like pots you probably already have.

 

[madscientist451]

Its as expensive as you want to make it. I'd start on craigslist, sometimes you can find brewpots and other items at a fraction of their original cost. Some used plastic items are reusable, some are better to
just throw away and get new. Start saving your craft beer bottles, you'll need a few cases of them. I soak mine in a bucket with water and baking soda, if the labels don't come off easy, I throw the bottle into the recycling. Look on you tube for Brew in a bag brewing, its easy and fun.
You need a thermometer and a hydrometer, if you buy stuff on craigslist those items will probably be in the mix. You can start with all grain in a bag , or do a super simple 15 minute ale (search this site) and be on your way in no time. Start off right with sanitation and get a container of star san. Check with your local bakery or bakery at your grocery store for used food grade buckets, I get them for $1.
Go on google and search "how to brew" by John Palmer, the basic edition is available for free.
Good Luck and Cheers!

 

[flars]

Take a look at these two sites, for a start, to see what is available. http://www.northernbrewer.com/
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/?gclid=CIXnq-f-gMUCFQopaQodj7QA7g

I would also recommend beginning with extract and extract with steeping grain kits. This will give you a good introduction to brewing, especially fermentation temperatures and yeast handling.

 

[max384]

I'll third (fourth?) the suggestion to start with extract. Get a few of these under your belt, figure out sanitation, bottling, etc. Then move on to AG... It's then like learning how to brew all over again!

 

[kh54s10]

I will respectfully (somewhat) disagree with going for 1 gallon brewing. Since it takes the same time to brew one gallon or 5 gallons, and I would go through a one gallon batch before the next was ready, they aren't enough for me. But, they are good for trying new things and not risking it on a larger batch.

I would add to start here: http://www.howtobrew.com/

His current book (not online) is much expanded and updated from the online version.

 

[thisisbeer]

I highly recommend starting with extract Brewing, at least for your first brew. This will help you see the process of brewing beer without having to worry about to many variables at once. If you find that you feel comfortable with the entire process move on to brew in a bag (BIAB) or get a mash tun for more traditional brewing. Extract brewing will give you all the necessary equipment to move into BIAB or traditional brewing. It will just require the extra tools needed to mash the grain. There are plenty of good books on the subject you can find by a quick amazon search or look on a book shelf at your home brew store.

One gallon is the cheapest way to brew your first beer. You probably already have a pot in your home to brew a 1 gallon batch. All you would need to buy is a recipe kit, 1 gallon fermenter, hydrometer, bottle capper, and some tubing to transfer the liquid. While the beer is fermenting save some of your bottles to fill when the beer is done. It won't produce very much beer, some will be lost to yeast settling on the bottom of the fermenter, but it will be a start. I would only recommend one gallon if you think you will not stick with the hobby.

If you would like to brew a larger volume all you would need is a larger kettle and a 5 gallon carboy to ferment in. The rest of the tools are the same. More upfront costs are associated with this but if you are going to stick with brewing you will need them anyway. This provides more reward for your work than 1 gallon brewing.

 

[brewshki]

I'll second the how to brew book as a good guide. I bought the new edition and go back to it a lot. I've only be brewing about 7 months but that book has so much information for the progression through the hobby

 

[richl025]

I second (third <g>) the suggestions to start off with extract. You can make some great beer with extract, then, later if you want to go all-grain you can.

5 gallon batches tend to be the most economical in the time vs beer curve...

And ABSOLUTELY get a copy of Palmer's book "How to Brew" (the one that a previous poster provided a link for). The newer version of the book is very well organized - at the start of each section is a chapter on how to get started quickly, and then each section has subsequent chapters that get into more detail. So you can go as shallow or as deep into the weeds as you want.

Good luck! And warning - it's an addictive hobby!

 

[GHBWNY]

I will 12th the extract suggestion. I'd also do a 5 gal. batch first time out. In the very likely event your beer will turn out great, you will have more on hand and to share. Presuming the idea is to brew lots of good beer, a 5 gal. batch will give you a more equitable return for your time, efforts and money spent.

 

[tim_s]

Hi Everyone,

I have a new question - does the process create an odour? Should I be brewing in my basement or garage? Potential for fruit flys?

I am going to start looking at some kits and I am hoping to produce a check list to verify

Wow, I am loving the response from this forum.

Here is my below responses.

Start doing extract

My understanding is that extract versus grain removes the need to mill the grain and measure quantities? Is there any chemical additives to the extract? Anything unwanted?

(around 80 dollar kit should get you all you need without having to go back immediately for the usefull extra's)

That is far less than I thought I would have to spend - thank you.

I respectfully disagree with both the above posters. Go 1 gallon (to keep it cheap) and all-grain BIAB. Skip extract entirely.

Is BIAB pre-mixed grains (in a bag)?

You need a thermometer and a hydrometer,

Ah you bring up a point I wanted to talk about &#8220;temperature&#8221; I was going to ask - how important is temperature control?

Start off right with sanitation and get a container of star san.

I am very happy to get Star San but my wife has access to large quantities of iodine for cheap at work and I was told I can use this as a no rinse sanitizer.

 

[ElJefeBrews]

Hi Everyone,

I have a new question - does the process create an odour? Should I be brewing in my basement or garage? Potential for fruit flys?

I am going to start looking at some kits and I am hoping to produce a check list to verify

Wow, I am loving the response from this forum.

Here is my below responses.



My understanding is that extract versus grain removes the need to mill the grain and measure quantities? Is there any chemical additives to the extract? Anything unwanted?



That is far less than I thought I would have to spend - thank you.



Is BIAB pre-mixed grains (in a bag)?



Ah you bring up a point I wanted to talk about “temperature” I was going to ask - how important is temperature control?



I am very happy to get Star San but my wife has access to large quantities of iodine for cheap at work and I was told I can use this as a no rinse sanitizer.

You can start all grain if you have somebody to help you out. AG is considerably more know-how. Otherwise start extract. I started AG with no help and I butchered my first hand full of batches. It's a big learning curve.

As far as I know there aren't any chemicals in extract. Just wort that's been made into either a powder or syrup.

TEMPERATURE CONTROL IS VERY IMPORTANT. Did I mention temperature control is very important?

I'm not sure if iodine is a sanitizer. I've always used starsan and never needed anything else

 

[Baja_Brewer]

Hi Everyone,

I have a new question - does the process create an odour? Should I be brewing in my basement or garage? Potential for fruit flys?

I am going to start looking at some kits and I am hoping to produce a check list to verify

Wow, I am loving the response from this forum.

Here is my below responses.

My understanding is that extract versus grain removes the need to mill the grain and measure quantities? Is there any chemical additives to the extract? Anything unwanted?

That is far less than I thought I would have to spend - thank you.

Is BIAB pre-mixed grains (in a bag)?

Ah you bring up a point I wanted to talk about “temperature” I was going to ask - how important is temperature control?

I am very happy to get Star San but my wife has access to large quantities of iodine for cheap at work and I was told I can use this as a no rinse sanitizer.

Yes it creates an odor during the brew process, but it's not severe. I find it favorable but others might not. Fermentation also makes a slight smell but if it's in an area with decent circulation (not a closet) you probably won't even notice.

Re. Extract vs grain- extract removes the need to mash the malt (grain) for an extended period (~1 hour+sparge) to produce the necessary sugar extraction, however you will likely want or need to steep grains for additional flavor a for 15-30min which is a process not unlike a small all grain brew in a bag would be (but the BIAB would be closer to an hour)... IMO extract brews (especially LME) have distinct off flavors especially if it's not fresh, but others will disagree til they're blue in the face, so YMMV. LMEs occasionally come hopped, I personally prefer DME.

Temp is quite important. Both for mashing or steeping and fermenting. Make sure you can sustain a target temperature range for a fermentation period wherever you plan on stowing your ferment or.

I don't know if I would no rinse with iodine... My interactions with it have been for purifying water and it's always had a distinct flavor. However I don't disagree that it would be an effective sanitizer since it's used for sterilization.

I'm currently doing 2.5 gallon batches, or roughly 1 case bottled. It's small enough that you could probably do a BIAB or extract with a full boil on the stove top with a 20 qt pot, and it reduces batch size costs and drinking obligations if you don't like that particular brew. Win., win.

Good luck!

 

[thisisbeer]

Hi Everyone,

I have a new question - does the process create an odour? Should I be brewing in my basement or garage? Potential for fruit flys?

I am going to start looking at some kits and I am hoping to produce a check list to verify

Wow, I am loving the response from this forum.

Here is my below responses.



My understanding is that extract versus grain removes the need to mill the grain and measure quantities? Is there any chemical additives to the extract? Anything unwanted?



That is far less than I thought I would have to spend - thank you.



Is BIAB pre-mixed grains (in a bag)?



Ah you bring up a point I wanted to talk about &#8220;temperature&#8221; I was going to ask - how important is temperature control?



I am very happy to get Star San but my wife has access to large quantities of iodine for cheap at work and I was told I can use this as a no rinse sanitizer.

I have never had an issue with fruit flys. I enjoy the aroma of the grains on brew day. The smell from fermentation is hardly noticed, by me anyway.

Extract is just someone doing the work of mashing for you. They mash the grains and reduce the resulting pre fermented beer into a syrup like consistency that you can add boiling water for rehydration. No added chemicals I am aware of from the manufacturer. You need to know the quantity of extract to know how such is needed for a particular beer. This can be alleviated by purchasing a pre made recipe kit with all ingredients pre measured and ready to use. This way you also know you are getting a proven recipe.

BIAB is a different approach to all grain brewing. Both methods use a vessel that you add the grain and hot water (usually 145-156) to for extracting the sugars from the grain. The traditional method uses two vessels to complete the mash. Water from the mash drains into the kettle you will be boiling in to extract sugars. Then more water is used to "rinse" the grains of any risidual sugar that were left behind. BIAB let's you only use one vessel. The grains are put into a mesh bag and lowered into your boil kettle full of water for the mash. Once the mash is complete the bag of grain is removed and rinsed. Afterwards the steps are the same for both methods.

 

[ChelisHubby]

Well not to disagree with ya,ll but get a book and do a bit of research cuz you can start with very little but that might not be what you want! 1 gallon batches are cheap but only makes one gallon 5 gallons take a couple of afternoon s to drink but the cost is greater with the rewards. Get a book of home brewing!

 

[Gavin C]

I started to read about home brewing long before I got around to doing it. You are getting a bit hung up on terms like extract, all grain, BIAB. There are a lot of terms in home brewing that will rapidly become very familiar once you do some reading.

There are merits to starting with extract; the delicious sugars extracted from malted barley and dehydrated either in part to a syrup or completely to a powder.

This extract is then rehydrated by the home brewer, hops are added also as its boiled in water. The mixture (wort) is cooled and yeast is added. That is a very basic synopsis with lots of bits left out. I mention it only to illustrate my point which is this. If you do a little homework you will better be able to understand the process; (it's not complicated), decide how you want to start, how much equipment you want, how much cash you want to spend. Don't get distracted by terms at this early stage.

All-grain is a little more tricky but in my view a lot more satisfying. It all depends on what you want from this rewarding hobby.

There are lots of good resources here in the techniques section. If you want to look at BIAB (Brew in a bag) there is a sticky with over 500k views which is an excellent pictorial in the BIAB section. I have also put a simple walkthrough of BIAB. See below

There is no one right way to start.

I started with an extract batch with steeping grains. Did one more extract batch before starting all-grain brewing. (See lots more terms right there)

How to Brew by John Palmer covers it all and will be the best money you will spend on homebrewing. The Complete joy of homebrewing is also a great learning tool. I have however learned more from this forum than anywhere else.

Best of luck going forward. I wish you every success and BTW, welcome to the forum!

 

[Kharnynb]

All grain is more fun, but it comes with some extra costs.

You can start extract brewing with just a basic starter kit and a decent 1 gallon kettle.

For all grain, you'd need at minimum extra:
-a full size brewing kettle/stockpot
-brewing bag or a fully sperate mash tun.
-a decent heatsource. (some old electric stoves will not be able to bring 5 gallons to the boil.)
-a grain mill, or a source that will mill the grain for you.

 

[tim_s]

Responses

You can start all grain if you have somebody to help you out. AG is considerably more know-how. Otherwise start extract. I started AG with no help and I butchered my first hand full of batches. It's a big learning curve.

I will admit that I am very tempted by the challenge of all-grains. As much as it is about the beer the truth is I can easily buy beer and I am in this for the &#8220;learning process&#8221; and later on being able to adapt my brews. I am computer science major who makes scientific research software. I do not doubt a learning curve exists but I am actually looking to experience it.

I will have a lot of questions.

I'm not sure if iodine is a sanitizer. I've always used starsan and never needed anything else

I am happy to get Starsan.

Temp is quite important. Both for mashing or steeping and fermenting. Make sure you can sustain a target temperature range for a fermentation period wherever you plan on stowing your ferment or.

I assume that the temperature for mashing and steeping would be dependant on the element or heat source -- correct? For the fermentation period I was thinking of placing the carboy into a rubbermaid and throw in some fish tank heaters to provide a consistent temperature to provide buffer against any night time fluctuations.

I'm currently doing 2.5 gallon batches, or roughly 1 case bottled. It's small enough that you could probably do a BIAB or extract with a full boil on the stove top with a 20 qt pot, and it reduces batch size costs and drinking obligations if you don't like that particular brew. Win., win.

I was leaning towards a 5 Gallon but this is something to think about for sure. Thank you.

All-grain is a little more tricky but in my view a lot more satisfying. It all depends on what you want from this rewarding hobby.

You got it -- I am in it for the challenge of it.

For all grain, you'd need at minimum extra:
-a full size brewing kettle/stockpot
-brewing bag or a fully sperate mash tun.
-a decent heatsource. (some old electric stoves will not be able to bring 5 gallons to the boil.)
-a grain mill, or a source that will mill the grain for you.

Brilliant.

New Information

Hi,

I am really loving this forum and here is my running list so far.

Beer recipe

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=147772

I would like to consider &#8220;all-grain&#8221;.

http://www.beergrains.com/vienna-malt-best-malz/ ($1.89 * 8 = 15.12)
http://www.beergrains.com/caramel-munich-60l-malt-briess/ ($2.09)
http://www.beergrains.com/caramel-vienne-20l-malt-briess/ ($2.09)
http://www.beergrains.com/saaz-hops-czech-1oz/ ($2.19 * 2)
http://www.beergrains.com/Saflager-S-23/ ($5.49)

I had to use another hops and I picked a Czech.

Water

I used to run a saltwater fish tank in my old house up the road and the water was buffered to a pH of 7.8 - 8.0 and contains chloramine which I was removing using a SpectraPure RO/DI and I am assuming I can just negate the DI as I will not be re-ionizing the water. For our drinking water we use a Brita water filter.

How extreme are people going to purify their water?

equipment

It seems like I do not have a lot of choice for equipment new or used in the Ottawa, Canada area and I found this company &#8220;http://www.beergrains.com/&#8221; who seems to have a delivery deal with a local brew pub in my area.

I was thinking of getting the following noting that I will be looking to run 2.5 G batches in the beginning but have the room to grow to a 5 G once I settle into the hobby and buy an independant heater that is not my stove.

http://www.beergrains.com/5-Gallon-Glass-Carboy/ ($35.99)
http://www.beergrains.com/Five-Star-Star-San-Sanitizer-16oz/ ($23.99)
http://www.beergrains.com/Victoria-Grain-Mill/ ($62.99)
http://www.beergrains.com/three-piece-airlock-6-5-drilled-stopper-set/ ($3.49)
http://www.beergrains.com/bottles-500ml-swing-top-12-pack/ ($21.99)
http://www.beergrains.com/muslin-grain-hop-bag-large/ ($2.49)
http://www.beergrains.com/1-2-silicone-high-temp-tubing-per-foot/ ($2.99 per foot * 6 = $17.94)
http://www.beergrains.com/Carboy-Handle-3-6.5-Gallon-Carboys/ ($6.49)
http://www.beergrains.com/Brix-Refractometer/ ($52.49)
http://www.beergrains.com/Floating-Thermometer/ ($9.49)

What scale would people recommend? Am I missing anything?
Link: http://www.beergrains.com/brewing-equipment/

 

[Kharnynb]

You might want to concider an ale yeast recipe as your first, it's easier temperature wise, and ready faster

I would get a hydrometer even if you have a refractometer.

A good stirring paddle.
An autosiphon with bottling wand, trust me it's much easier especially with carboys.

 

[tim_s]

You might want to concider an ale yeast recipe as your first, it's easier temperature wise, and ready faster

I would get a hydrometer even if you have a refractometer.

A good stirring paddle.
An autosiphon with bottling wand, trust me it's much easier especially with carboys.

I am a huge fan of Ale's but I was curious if you had any recommendations?

 

[Kharnynb]

My first all-grain was this one:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=87816

It's very basic, you get to appreciate the flavour of one hop and one malt and it will be ready for first tasters within a month(2 weeks in fermenter, 2 weeks in bottle)

 

[Gavin C]

Your replies are very thorough but really illustrate your lack of knowledge. That is not meant as a critique but meant to reiterate the point to understand the fundamentals.

Example: you deduced from prior posts that mash temperature was dependent on heat source. Incorrect.

Example: You are talking about adding a heater to the fermenter. Cooling is what you need, summer coming. Night time fluctuations are minimal with a 5 gallon heat sink.

Example: Your talking about DI water and not ionizing it again. This is just too off base to begin. There are books written on water chemistry pertaining to brewing. Deionized water is useful. I don't use it.

Try to understand the fundamentals before focusing on the details.

 

[flars]

Your replies are very thorough but really illustrate your lack of knowledge. That is not meant as a critique but meant to reiterate the point to understand the fundamentals.

Example: you deduced from prior posts that mash temperature was dependent on heat source. Incorrect.

Example: You are talking about adding a heater to the fermenter. Cooling is what you need, summer coming. Night time fluctuations are minimal with a 5 gallon heat sink.

Example: Your talking about DI water and not ionizing it again. This is just too off base to begin. There are books written on water chemistry pertaining to brewing. Deionized water is useful. I don't use it.

Try to understand the fundamentals before focusing on the details.

I did not go back through all the posts, so don't know if this was mentioned before. Gavin C is right. Fundamentals come first. Starting out all grain can and will lead to some frustrations trying to figure out if the finished brew, that you don't like, is the recipe, the style, or the technique. All grain is like jumping into organic chemistry in the fifth grade without have one or two general science classes.

I would always recommend new brewers begin with extract, extract with steeping grains, or partial mash. With these there is still a sharp learning curve for yeasts, brewing liquor, fermentation temperature, and fermentation time.

Most of the equipment purchased can be done with the plan to go all grain in the future to not waste funds.

 

[relicdog]

Make a yeast starter with a stirplate for all your brews, it will turn the final product from ending up so-so to commercial quality.

 

[Gavin C]

Make a yeast starter with a stirplate for all your brews, it will turn the final product from ending up so-so to commercial quality.

Better advice to a total novice would be to use dry yeast and follow the manufacturer's instructions on rehydration to the letter.

There are a few more steps in the process to achieving excellence I would suggest. This is a gross over simplification in the extreme and just bad advice.

A starter is not needed with dry yeast, 1 gallon batches nor when using fresh slurry. Again tips like this just serve to over complicate things to a new brewer and make the assumption that someone knows what the term "starter" and " stir plate" means.

 

[Terek]

its as expensive as you want it to be. I started with a DIY all grain set up that cost me about $40, mainly cuz I had a lot of the stuff needed lying around. Now I have a HERMS setup that cost me around $600 all together, and that was with a lot of DIY stuff as well.
My suggestion is if you are serious, skip extract all together. Its super easy and you really wont learn much. I see it as something one does when they just want beer to drink. This is a lifestyle for me. I like to make it my own, not some northern brewer kit that a million people have made. I have NEVER used a kit, or someone elses recipe. Everything I make is 100% my own.
I found the best way to learn is to watch videos on youtube. I watched videos for about a week before getting my setup ready and did my first brew, which was all grain. Once you watch enough and get the gist of it, its really not that hard at all. If you can cook food, you can brew all grain.

 

[smccarter]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=504231

For a beginner though, you might want to start with an extract kit. Your home brew shop should be able to guide you through the process. Mine did - The Shady Lady in Pensacola, FL - had to plug them. They were a great help in the beginning.

 

[max384]

Your replies are very thorough but really illustrate your lack of knowledge. That is not meant as a critique but meant to reiterate the point to understand the fundamentals.

Example: you deduced from prior posts that mash temperature was dependent on heat source. Incorrect.

Example: You are talking about adding a heater to the fermenter. Cooling is what you need, summer coming. Night time fluctuations are minimal with a 5 gallon heat sink.

Example: Your talking about DI water and not ionizing it again. This is just too off base to begin. There are books written on water chemistry pertaining to brewing. Deionized water is useful. I don't use it.

Try to understand the fundamentals before focusing on the details.

This.

 

[flars]

A word of warning, not everything on youtube is a great learning experience.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdUTLHLBYBA[/ame]

 

[smccarter]

...

 

[Gavin C]

Fair enough @smccarter. I would respectfully disagree with you and stand behind what meager advice I have proffered.

 

[Mexibilly]

I started with the midwest starter kit and a 7.5 gallon economy kettle.
I've built upon that since, but with those 2 things, 8oz of StarSan, and an extract kit I got going.
From there it's all you.
HBT is a priceless reference...

 

[smccarter]

...

 

[smccarter]

.....

 

[Gavin C]

I absolutely agree.. this guy could have provided a better presentation. He seems to be too opinionated. I've brewed really good extract beers in the past, and still brew wth extract. I have standard recipes that include extract as a matter of fact.

This guy in the video is a moron and a holocaust denier (there is a video of him doing just this) if that sort of thing means anything of importance to you. I would suggest not clicking on the video for fear of giving any added credence to his poisonous existence.

 

[relicdog]

Better advice to a total novice would be to use dry yeast and follow the manufacturer's instructions on rehydration to the letter.

There are a few more steps in the process to achieving excellence I would suggest. This is a gross over simplification in the extreme and just bad advice.

A starter is not needed with dry yeast, 1 gallon batches nor when using fresh slurry. Again tips like this just serve to over complicate things to a new brewer and make the assumption that someone knows what the term "starter" and " stir plate" means.

Even better advice would be to pitch the appropriate amount of yeast needed for proper fermentation like http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html.

I have done about 5 cooper american wheat kits, i have used a yeast starter and have not used a yeast starter and with all other things being equal, i have noticed a huge difference in the quality of my finished homebrew. The beer that was made with the yeast starter is MUCH better. Maybe this has to do with the fact that I am making brews with 1.65 OG+.

It's a small investment (~$40) and it will improve the quality of your brew.

 

[smccarter]

...

 

[tim_s]

Your replies are very thorough but really illustrate your lack of knowledge. That is not meant as a critique but meant to reiterate the point to understand the fundamentals.

Oh not to worry, I understand I have a lot to learn and I appreciate you helping me and educating me through the process. It can be frustrating to teach someone so new but I really appreciate it.

Example: you deduced from prior posts that mash temperature was dependent on heat source. Incorrect.

Example: You are talking about adding a heater to the fermenter. Cooling is what you need, summer coming. Night time fluctuations are minimal with a 5 gallon heat sink.

Thank you for this information and should I buy a cooler?

Example: Your talking about DI water and not ionizing it again. This is just too off base to begin. There are books written on water chemistry pertaining to brewing. Deionized water is useful. I don't use it.

Try to understand the fundamentals before focusing on the details.

That is interesting, DI water can make a human being sick and in a fish tank it is the salts that re-ionize the waters. This is good news and sounds like I have an understandable strategy of removing chloramine from water, which is where this conversation stemmed from.