Saison BBD Saison Furtif

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Cat, we have a big problem

I opened my first bottle of this after 1 week, and it's EASILY the best homebrew I ever made. Not to mention, it's an amazing Saison that tastes eerily to Hennepin. What did you break into the Ommegang company and steal their recipe? I did use 565, which was really the only difference from your original recipe post. Fermented in low 80's.

How is this supposed to last 3 weeks for proper conditioning?

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Unibrow said:
Cat, we have a big problem

I opened my first bottle of this after 1 week, and it's EASILY the best homebrew I ever made. Not to mention, it's an amazing Saison that tastes eerily to Hennepin. What did you break into the Ommegang company and steal their recipe? I did use 565, which was really the only difference from your original recipe post. Fermented in low 80's.

How is this supposed to last 3 weeks for proper conditioning?
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Make sure to at least save a couple for several months. It only gets better!
 
Grumpybumpy said:
Make sure to at least save a couple for several months. It only gets better!
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Surely you jest.

Don't get me wrong...I'm sure this beer will get better with age. But with the Superbowl coming up how can I expect this to last through Feb?

I am putting a 12 pack away now. And I voe not to open it until April
 
brewing this again in it's "little brother" form for draft. My first attempt at this it was just shy of 9% I was setting up my new mash tun, and efficiency was through the roof with my fine crush. I backed grain bill down and it was closer to right, but still high. backing off on my crush and I should hit in the 7% range. STILL working out the bugs! BUT I'm not hitting low anymore!
 
Glad you like it. The best way to make it last is to brew more of it. Easier to make 100 bottles last longer than it is to make 50 last. :D
 
Also wanted to say thanks Cat. My first Saison attempt (after loving 3711 on other styles) borrowed heavily from your grain bill. I have 25+ gallons of saisons going in my bedroom right now. When my brewpub gets up and running in Las Vegas in a year or two I'll invite you out to collab on a saison with me. :mug:
 
Thanks for recipe. I brewed this on saturday and it's bubbling like crazy. I can't wait to try.

I've got a bunch of dextrose around and was thinking of adding that instead of the table sugar. Will that make a difference in the final taste?
 
It shouldn't. If you want to be exact you can look up a conversion as dextros and table sugar aren't quite 1:1 interchangable, but I wouldn't bother. It's not that big of a difference.
 
I'll go ahead and vouch for the importance of 3711 in saisons. I've used all three white labs' saison yeast strains and they don't even hold a candle to the power of 3711. Wyeast takes the cake there.

On a second note, my buddy will be brewing an extract version similar to the one Starfish came up with this weekend - and he'll be racking onto a 3711 yeast cake provided by yours truly from a rye saison that's finishing up its primary fermentation. The only changes he's going to make is using Turbinado instead of table sugar, leaving out the Saaz addition, and potentially the addition of clove honey.

All my saisons in the past have been AG, so I'm eager to see how his turns out.
 
ChshreCat said:
Glad you like it. The best way to make it last is to brew more of it. Easier to make 100 bottles last longer than it is to make 50 last. :D
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is it worth even converting this to all grain or is it that good as an extract?
 
Well mine turned great! It's a hit amongst all my friends...and has been labelled as the "gateway" beer...as most nights having started out with one of these...ends up being a 4 AM adventure! Thanks for the recipe! I'll be brewing this again sooon!
 
Beernewb: To answer your question about how it is... This is my favorite beer. Period. Commercial... Microbrew... Homebrew... this is my favorite beer. Hands down. If I could only have one beer again, this would be the one. I still buy beer and still brew different beers, but this is my absolute favorite of all time. When I finally get set up for all grain, I'll probably convert this to all grain, but the partial mash is the original recipe.
 
I did a partial Saison last year thats actually quite similar. Easily one of my favourite brews so far. Still have a few bottles hanging around. Still mighty tasty. For reference my recipe was:

3.5lb DME
4.4lb Pils(NZ)
1lb Wheat
2lb Munich
0.1lb Caramunich

1oz Hallertaur (8/1%) @ 60 mins
0.5oz Hallertaur (8.1%) @ 0 mins

Halfway through the process i came to the decision i actually wanted a lighter version and adjusted the volume till I got an OG of 1.055

I pitched Wyeast 3726 (one of my all-time favourites)

Bottled after 3 weeks in primary with no temp control. Finished at 1.006

EDIT: forgot to say i had an 0.8lb sugar addition as fermentation wound down

picture.php
 
Grasslands said:
I'll go ahead and vouch for the importance of 3711 in saisons. I've used all three white labs' saison yeast strains and they don't even hold a candle to the power of 3711. Wyeast takes the cake there.

On a second note, my buddy will be brewing an extract version similar to the one Starfish came up with this weekend - and he'll be racking onto a 3711 yeast cake provided by yours truly from a rye saison that's finishing up its primary fermentation. The only changes he's going to make is using Turbinado instead of table sugar, leaving out the Saaz addition, and potentially the addition of clove honey.

All my saisons in the past have been AG, so I'm eager to see how his turns out.
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Brewed this up this past Sunday - hit an OG of 1.080 before adding in a gallon of water - so conservatively, let's say OG was in the realm of 1.070. Threw it on to my 3711 yeast cake and the sucker blew off in 2 hours @ 75.
 
Just brewed this up with a buddy last Monday. He has brewed with me before, but this is his first batch of his own. We both enjoy Boulevard's Tank 7 and this seemed like it would be a good road to go down. We had the LBHS convert it to extract as I don't have the equipment for all grain just yet. We had an extra 0.50 oz of Saaz hops left over so we went ahead and put them in with the 10 minute addition. Hops are good! It went well and the sample we took tasted great. He said that fermentation kicked off within 6 hours. Cant wait to see how it turns out.
 
ChshreCat said:
Beernewb: To answer your question about how it is... This is my favorite beer. Period. Commercial... Microbrew... Homebrew... this is my favorite beer. Hands down. If I could only have one beer again, this would be the one. I still buy beer and still brew different beers, but this is my absolute favorite of all time. When I finally get set up for all grain, I'll probably convert this to all grain, but the partial mash is the original recipe.
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thanks chshre, I've been all grain for a while so I'm a bit partial mash gun shy..lol..I have to wait a bit for my ambient temps to rise, so maybe I'll do a practice PM beer in the interim.

I see you have a boil size of a bit over 4 gallons, do you just top off with water after the boil is complete to reach 5.5? Also, where were your water ratios for the mash? do you just mash in and drain in a PM or do you batch sparge just like an all grain low gravity beer? thanks.
 
Beernewb said:
thanks chshre, I've been all grain for a while so I'm a bit partial mash gun shy..lol..I have to wait a bit for my ambient temps to rise, so maybe I'll do a practice PM beer in the interim.

I see you have a boil size of a bit over 4 gallons, do you just top off with water after the boil is complete to reach 5.5? Also, where were your water ratios for the mash? do you just mash in and drain in a PM or do you batch sparge just like an all grain low gravity beer? thanks.
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Just up your grain bill to make up the gravity of the extract, and brew it all-grain. Will be tapping my "furtif lite" next week. Will post later with Gravitys and recipe info.
 
Brewing up this one on Saturday. According to Hopville, here are the stats. Pretty excited to watch this yeast have sex with itself. The only thing I'm concerned about is ferm temp. I'll have to keep my space heater on for the first few days to keep it warm enough.

Beer Style: Saison
Recipe Type: Extract with Specialty Grains
Brew Date: 03/03/2012

Batch size: 5.0 gallons
Expected Original Gravity: 1.067
Expected Final Gravity: 1.013
Expected Color: 10° SRM (Gold to Copper)
Expected Mash Efficiency: 60%
Expected Bitterness: 27.9 IBU
Expected ABV: 7.2% ABV
Expected Calories: 219 per 12 oz.

Malt & Fermentables
72% 6 lbs Muntons Plain Light DME
12% 1 lb Muntons Wheat DME
12% 1 lb Crystal 20L
4% .5 lb Crystal 80L

Hops
boil 60 mins 0.5 oz Northern Brewer pellet 6.5 AA
boil 20 mins 1.0 oz Hallertau pellet 4.4 AA
boil 10 mins 0.5 oz Northern Brewer pellet 6.5 AA
boil 10 mins 0.5 oz Saaz pellet 3.5 AA

Boil: 6.0 gallons for 60 minutes

Yeast
Wyeast French Saison (3711)

Miscellaneous
boil 15 min 1 Whirlfloc Tablet
primary 14-21 days 16 ounces Belgian Candi Sugar
 
I brew this a couple weeks ago and I'm having trouble keeping the temp high enough. If this stays around 78 will it turn out ok and ferment all the way out???
 
maggator said:
I brew this a couple weeks ago and I'm having trouble keeping the temp high enough. If this stays around 78 will it turn out ok and ferment all the way out???
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Oh, that's plenty warm. Folks on here report they still get spicy and citrus flavors from the yeast in the 70's but less of the hot alcohol flavor.
 
Hi Cat, been following this thread for a month now and am finally going to brew today with the only change being Strisselspalt for the Hallertauer and Saaz. Just a few questions I couldn't find the answers to. I see some used a 1 or 2L starter. Is this necessary with the 3711? I plan to keg this so will be going from the primary to keg after 4 weeks (if fermentation is stable), cold crash for a couple of days, force carb and drink!! Will that work?
 
lolobrewman said:
Hi Cat, been following this thread for a month now and am finally going to brew today with the only change being Strisselspalt for the Hallertauer and Saaz. Just a few questions I couldn't find the answers to. I see some used a 1 or 2L starter. Is this necessary with the 3711? I plan to keg this so will be going from the primary to keg after 4 weeks (if fermentation is stable), cold crash for a couple of days, force carb and drink!! Will that work?
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Your schedule sounds like it would work. 3711 tends to work really fast to get you down to what seems like a reasonable FG, then it slowly cranks it down lower... and lower... and lower.

Starters are always a good idea and I recommend doing one if you can. That said... I always just pitch the smack pack right into the wort on every brew I use liquid yeast in.
 
I didn't use a starter and it turned out great! Stressing the yeast a bit might help. That said, the next time I make a batch I'll use a small 500mL starter
 
ChshreCat said:
Your schedule sounds like it would work. 3711 tends to work really fast to get you down to what seems like a reasonable FG, then it slowly cranks it down lower... and lower... and lower.

Starters are always a good idea and I recommend doing one if you can. That said... I always just pitch the smack pack right into the wort on every brew I use liquid yeast in.
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Yup! I've used Strisselspalt as 1 oz flavor and 1oz aroma on this beer every time I've brewed it and love it. Kept 1 oz sterling for bitter addition.

About ready to keg my most recent batch this weekend as it has been steadily dropping lower... and lower. finally holding stable after about a month.

This yeast is such a monster I don't bother with a starter. I have tweaked OG down to 1054 since this yeast is so aggressive. I'm having guests next thurs evening so it needs to be kegged no later than tomorrow morning. final check of gravity should be in the 1.00? range guessing around .002-.004 if previous reading are on track. Ballpark 6.5%ish +/-.

been doing:
5lb belgian pale
4.25lb german pils
.75 20lvb crystal (lightened this time)
.75lb tortified wheat
1lb light crystal belgian candy sugar last 15min

1oz sterling 5.6 AA 60min
1oz strisselspalt 2.6 AA 20 min
1oz strisselspalt 1.9 AA 10min

3711 wyeast

room temp near heat vent in winter, room or closet with no a/c in summer. let sit for 30days force carb and enjoy. this one is going into a local competition on st pats day. Should be interesting, never took this one to a competition.
 
An AG version of this is on my brew list soon. Been following this thread for awhile, and waiting for a little bit warmer temps in cold a$$ MN so my space heater doesn't run non stop on this sucker!
 
I like this beer fermed in the 70°'s, first time I brewed it was here in SC summer, in a room that I closed AC vent... came out good but there was a pronounced red wine and alcohol bite. Brought down to mid to low 70°s and beer has mellowed into some spicy pepper notes with a hint of wine. (some of the wine notes could be from the strisslespalt raisin character.
 
Waterboy42 said:
I plan on French hopping, and am shooting for mid to upper 70's. Kinda want a little ester profile from the yeast.
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you'll get it in that range... it throws esters! 3711 is a descendant of wine yeast mutated to ferment beer... puts out some red wine aromas and flavors, esp with strisselspalt raisin character. I'm an english style guy but this is one of my most interesting beers. Rivals some of my herb & honey beers (like coriander and recently Basil).
 
Num! My house beer is American hopped with English malt, been looking for another goto recipe and this one looks delish!
 
LOL I hear ya! after last FULL version on tap I decided I needed to knock it back for draft. Need to bottle a batch of full strength again soon, Love the full strength too much!:mug::tank:
 
ChshreCat said:
1.054? That's not gonna hurt anyone! Yer taking the fun out of it! :D
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Hehe, as dry as this is . . . With the esters . . . I might be able to convince a few more peeps to try craft brews! Three weeks from now she's bubbling!

Got the, "Oh, a dark beer," from my Moms husband. This'll change his mind . . . And give him a nasty hangover if he doesn't!
 
yeah, even at 1054 it's still going to hit in the high 6% range. It is a crowd pleaser at the lower end. A real beer drinkers dream at the high end, but it can pack a punch at the high end....

I do call the 1054 version "saison furtif - lite"

Use the clear belgian candy sugar or corn sugar if you can't find the light, to keep color in the low SRMs. Full Verision I brew to a dirty penny copper, with just a touch (ounce or 2) of black pat.
 
ChshreCat said:
Your schedule sounds like it would work. 3711 tends to work really fast to get you down to what seems like a reasonable FG, then it slowly cranks it down lower... and lower... and lower.

Starters are always a good idea and I recommend doing one if you can. That said... I always just pitch the smack pack right into the wort on every brew I use liquid yeast in.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the quick reply. Got thrown off my schedule so now it's Monday. Will do a small 1L starter. One more quick question. I'm new to partial mashing and am wondering what temp you get the water to before adding the grain to have it stabalize at 150? The last partial I did, I started with 150 degree water which ended up at 130 after adding the grain, let that stabalize for 30 mins and then added enough boiling water to bring it up to 150 and left it there for an hour and then sparged with 175 degree water to the boiling pot. One more step but worked well.
 
lolobrewman said:
Thanks for the quick reply. Got thrown off my schedule so now it's Monday. Will do a small 1L starter. One more quick question. I'm new to partial mashing and am wondering what temp you get the water to before adding the grain to have it stabalize at 150? The last partial I did, I started with 150 degree water which ended up at 130 after adding the grain, let that stabalize for 30 mins and then added enough boiling water to bring it up to 150 and left it there for an hour and then sparged with 75 degree water to the boiling pot. One more step but worked well.
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Beersmith calculates my temps for me. Says 163 degrees F to the Mash and 168F for the sparge.
 
ChshreCat said:
Beersmith calculates my temps for me. Says 163 degrees F to the Mash and 168F for the sparge.
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Thanks again. Don't have Beersmith (yet) so will use your numbers. I want this to be a great beer and obviously, this one is in the upper end of that catagory. BTW, corrected sparge temp in my last post.
 

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